702 bhp from a remap?

[TP81]

Yes, keen to hear how the car has changed. Positives and negatives. I have a 2013 M5 and know DMS well, they have tuned the last 4 of my cars. Rob is top class.

My reluctance to have the M5 tuned is really the car is already extremely strong and at times it struggles to get the power onto the road. Do you see gains on mid range, etc?

[rafaele92]

Im ordering my F10 M5 soon , i sure will contact DMS.

do they sell software abroad , since im from Portugal , they remove speed limiter , or u need drivers package ?

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by rafaele92

Im ordering my F10 M5 soon , i sure will contact DMS.

do they sell software abroad , since im from Portugal , they remove speed limiter , or u need drivers package ?

There are several tuners in Germany that offer good tunes for your M5. Germany is a bit closer to Portugal.

You could either go with Hartge or AC Schnitzer (ACS also offer warranties and their tunes are normally TÜV approved). These are so called piggy back tunes (additional ECU) that are easily installed and removed. These can be sent and installed locally (even by yourself).

Or you could use companies like Manhart, G-Power or PP Performance. They will need your car and reflash the DME. This also gives more power than Hartge and ACS.

As of now, it's only ACS that has a independently verified removal of the speed limiter.

[turbo8765]

Originally Posted by mcgm5

although I doubt that its an issue to dyno the vehicle YOU own.

its actually really easy for BMW to see that the car was dynoed with a simple check of the ECU through the data port.

If a car is dynoed there will be a huge difference in the wheel speed sensors which can easily be verified. Rear wheels going 155mph while the front wheels are stopped. (or are rolling 5mph). Wheel speed sensor's are continually being monitored while the car is running either way.

There are a number of ways that BMW could detect that a car was dyno'ed even beyond wheel speed sensor data. For example, accelerometers showing no accel while throttle is fully depressed. If you're debating wether or not BMW can tell if an M5 was dyno'ed your well behind the discussion.

I find forum bias very interesting. I don't know how much power this guy is making, but when faced with the proposition of over 700hp from a tune or inaccurate dyno numbers, the person who suggested the dyno's may be inaccurate gets flogged. Kinda funny.

[turbo8765]

Originally Posted by ColdList

With the F10 you must log the ignition timing curve, air intake pressure (must be 1:1 which NO ONE is doing), and RPMs and then match them to the proper tables. Nonetheless, the simplest of the variables always ignored due to the limiter is that the car must also be run 1:1 in 5th gear. In Europe, a dyno run will void your warranty on the F10 M5. Not sure I would press my luck further in the US.

The inertia dyno's determine hp/trq by measuring the acceleration of a known mass, the drum (and knowing rpms). How would ignition timing and/or air intake pressure "fool" the dyno? If the drum of known weight is accelerated to a given extent, what difference would anything going on in the DME make?

Dyno'ing in the wrong gear can skew numbers, but the difference is generally small on inertia dyno's and nonexistent on load based dynos.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by turbo8765

The inertia dyno's determine hp/trq by measuring the acceleration of a known mass, the drum (and knowing rpms). How would ignition timing and/or air intake pressure "fool" the dyno? If the drum of known weight is accelerated to a given extent, what difference would anything going on in the DME make?

Dyno'ing in the wrong gear can skew numbers, but the difference is generally small on inertia dyno's and nonexistent on load based dynos.

It's not the DME that fools the dyno, it's the fact that the DME recognizes a "dyno situation" and might not achieve full power or do "strange" things to cope with a situation that doesn't make sense to the DME (car is not experiencing any G's, but still seems to be accelerating. Front wheels are stationary while the rear wheels are doing 100MPH, or both front and rear wheels are rolling, but intake air pressure doesn't correspond to a vehicle driving at 100MPH etc, etc).

Some (Coldlist) has alluded to a dyno procedure made by BMW (that is as thick as a book) for the M5. To many that hasn't added up with voiding warranties etc, if they actually have made a dyno procedure...

The thing is, during EU type approval the car has to go through a emissions drive cycle simulating Urban and Extra Urban driving. This is done by a technical service (usually TÜV), and can't legally be done by BMW themselves. These tests are done on a very advanced rolling road dyno, that is able to recreate aerodynamic losses and inertia etc. To be able to dyno a modern car correctly, the manufacturer obviously needs to provide a manual/procedure by which the technical service can test the car properly. Hence the manual on "how to dyno a M5"

[turbo8765]

Originally Posted by Boss330

It's not the DME that fools the dyno, it's the fact that the DME recognizes a "dyno situation" and might not achieve full power or do "strange" things to cope with a situation that doesn't make sense

That would explain a lower than expected dyno result but not the higher than expected result we see in this case.

I realize the DME can't "fool the dyno"… that was actually my point.