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      08-04-2014, 02:34 PM   #45
Blindside_137
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How does a professional bmw driver not know how to yield to the faster cars? Apparently that Porsche was on him for a while.
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      08-04-2014, 02:45 PM   #46
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No matter how good driver you are, mistakes can happen'
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      08-04-2014, 03:01 PM   #47
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Having put an M6 into the wall at the end of the Chicane I can understand this situation. As good as you are there will be a moment when that is not good enough. The issue is whether you or someone else precipitates that moment.

For those of doing an ED tourist lap: If you've never been be careful, watch the mirrors, move right, don't let your ego get the better of you. It would be a bad ending to a great experience. Be satisfied with doing some laps. If you do enough go faster by all means, just don't let it be fool's confidence.

For those of you doing a training session: Sort of the same thing but don't let yourself chase the car in front of you. Could very well be a better driver and not demonstrating what you can do absent more practice. The ego thing again.
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      08-04-2014, 03:04 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blindside_137
How does a professional bmw driver not know how to yield to the faster cars? Apparently that Porsche was on him for a while.
I watched a video of a m3 gts being held up by the ring taxi... you could tell the GTS was faster around the turns but slower on the straight. ring taxi driver was too stubborn to let the m3 pass
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      08-04-2014, 03:33 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karussell View Post
brunnchen 2 is a nasty nasty turn.

depending on the car its a 3rd or 4th gear turn. very high speed perfect apex. the exit falls away. in this case the taxi driver was probably less than 6 inches too early on turn in. back left tire touches the super slick cement on left while its fully loaded and it pitches the car. when it does you are a passenger. nothing can be done to correct it at that speed. thats all it takes. these guys are pro's and even they make mistakes. the GT2 behind him probably was noted but not a factor in making this mistake.

this turn kills the most motorcyclists as well.

its better to just turn in later shift down to third. slightly late apex and give your self a more straighter approach up towards eis curve. better with high hp cars and especially when its wet.
Not sure about that. When the backend stepped out, the driver puts in very little counter-steering and very slowly too. Freeze-frame the video when the car is at mid-track and in a large slip angle, and the direction of the front tires nowhere matches that angle.

That slide was saveable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Blindside_137 View Post
How does a professional bmw driver not know how to yield to the faster cars? Apparently that Porsche was on him for a while.
How does a professional driver not know how to quickly opposite lock and steer into a slide to counter it? That guy is an amateur. As the article stated, in way over his head.
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      08-04-2014, 03:39 PM   #50
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Must've been an American since the majority dont know what the flashing lights mean from behind
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      08-04-2014, 04:02 PM   #51
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Good Lord. My neck my back my neck and my back. My back my neck my back and my neck. I am going to sue.

I will settle out of court for two M3's and one X5M.
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      08-04-2014, 04:46 PM   #52
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Seriously, how does one become a Ringtaxi driver? I know most of their drivers are pro drivers somehow, but I wonder if they accept anybody that just has a lot of experience, but is not a pro driver. Or how do you become a pro driver? Do you necessarily have to race go-karts competitively or be an instructor or something like that? Also I wonder if you have to be a German citizen? I'm just thinking about a career change one day, and I know I can drive the M5 around the ring professionally. Since I have already done it without crashing I think may score me some clout.
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      08-04-2014, 05:18 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OC3 View Post
Not sure about that. When the backend stepped out, the driver puts in very little counter-steering and very slowly too. Freeze-frame the video when the car is at mid-track and in a large slip angle, and the direction of the front tires nowhere matches that angle.

That slide was saveable.




How does a professional driver not know how to quickly opposite lock and steer into a slide to counter it? That guy is an amateur. As the article stated, in way over his head.
Agreed. Of course you never know what was going on (in his head or otherwise) at the exact moment the driver was making a decision (or no decision) about what to do, but it is painfully obvious (and I think important for people learning from this video, as I did back in my racing/instructing days) that he should have counter-steered a lot more and quickly. These are second nature skills to experienced drivers and would have given him a far better chance of recovery.
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      08-04-2014, 05:28 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogman View Post
It was the Porsche Club of Poland, both inside and behind the taxi. Simply to much pressure on the taxi driver...
Hahaha yeah, I definitely think the pressure of trying to hold the torch high for the BMW brand failed in this case. I was thinking "Gosh the P-car forums must be loving this"

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      08-04-2014, 05:54 PM   #55
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What did he do wrong?, And how could he have saved that?
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      08-04-2014, 07:09 PM   #56
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I took ED of my M6, but drove the Ring in a rental Z4 from RentRaceCar -- http://www.RentRaceCar.de. Take your ego out of it, and let faster cars go by.
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      08-04-2014, 07:09 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tooch
What did he do wrong?, And how could he have saved that?
He came into that turn to hot.

You could see how extreme the suspension was loaded as he started the turn.
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      08-04-2014, 07:27 PM   #58
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Shit happens!

Live another day and learn.
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      08-04-2014, 07:52 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by i001947
Shit happens!

Live another day and learn.
IF he still has his job.
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      08-04-2014, 08:08 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
IF he still has his job.
So true
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      08-04-2014, 08:39 PM   #61
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What a dickhead. Seeing GT2 behind and not giving him way. What did he think driving his porky, full of pax bimmer? And there were even more P cars behind!
He ruined the lap for many drivers. Asshole.
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      08-04-2014, 09:25 PM   #62
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From the height it seems competition package but tips seems chrome silver! !
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      08-04-2014, 10:25 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ufgtrs2007 View Post
That's terrible, even the pros make mistakes. This has me worried about driving the ring on my upcoming ED in October.
It's not that bad, just run it for fun not to impress people, you'll still get rush. An updated GPS helps, both accidents I've seen in front of me seemed like they had no idea of what was turn was next.
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      08-04-2014, 10:44 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tooch View Post
What did he do wrong?, And how could he have saved that?
It appears to me that the start of the problem was giving too much throttle at the corner exit (where he was already at the traction limit) creating on oversteer condition - you can hear him get on the throttle more right before he gets to the brick curb apron, and then him let off after he starts to slide. At the very instant you feel the start of the slide you have to very quickly react with opposite lock to counter the slide (ie: quickly turning the steering wheel more to the left in this case so that the angle of your front wheels matches the angle of the slide, it's just something you have to feel) and modulate the throttle gently if needed - that's how he could have saved it, but it doesn't appear that he did this enough - you can see his front wheels are not turned very much and they were very slow even getting to the angle he did. By then he is already headed for the wall instead of down the track on the slip angle he would have been on if he reacted quickly. And secondarily lifting off the throttle too much doesn't help either because the weight shifts to the front and the rear loses even more traction - might have contributed some in this case. This all requires a very quick response (watch how quick Formula 1 drivers do it - so fast you hardly recognize it!) and if not, you're done. Doing what is mentioned above would give you a very high potential of a successful recovery, or at least mitigate enough that you might not hit a wall/rail. Hard to find a reason this technique wouldn't have worked here...

Note that the above procedure is just to neutralize the initial slide so, even if he did do the above, he still would have had to recover the second half of the slide as the car begins moving the opposite direction and straighten the car back out to normal (by steering back to the right and steady throttle).

This is a very common beginner mistake I've seen as an instructor many times, especially in higher HP cars with traction control off - be careful out there!
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      08-04-2014, 11:16 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dionysus View Post
Sabine followed by GT3 (although driving an E39 or E60 on the limit is a very different prospect to an F10): -



What's with the coach @ 6:59?
One of my favorite videos...I remember watching it when I was shopping for my E39 M5 ten years ago. Watching it really gives one the appreciation of the high speeds and traffic on the Ring. One wrong move...

I agree that the dynamics of the F10 may make it more challenging, if more quick if all goes well.

So happy no one was hurt. In the end that is what matters.
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      08-05-2014, 12:22 AM   #66
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Good that no one got hurt, bad the car is damaged.
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