Intake comparisons?

[apexlocator]

Originally Posted by allmotor_2000

At some point if someone can have a rational, technical discussion on intakes I am all ears. If there is a way to make power with intakes I am behind it 100%.

All intakes need to be compared to stock box (w/funnel), charcoal-delete and a K&N. Thats the baseline. Any delta ROI needs to take the $90 it costs for that baseline and then calculate how much HP gain / dollar.

This is performance only - I can't speak to sound or aesthetics as I am personally not interested. Others are and they can place their own value on that benefit.

This is what I tried to do. I understand the scientific route is to reduce as many variables as you can, but some of us have regular day jobs/business to run unrelated to the auto industry.

I had BMC filters, charcoal delete, and AP air scoops.
I did a baseline at EAS and got 639whp/648wtq, mid afternoon, ambient in the mid-high 90s.

Different day, after RK intakes installed, mid afternoon, ambient mid 90s, at EAS, put down 661whp/652wtq.

What is that, a 3% increase on the dyno lol. There is a definite increase though, maybe more at speed??....


I would have liked to do before/after RK intakes same day, but didnt have the time. And really, I wasnt looking at intakes when I did that baseline; a used set popped up and I decided to try it.

[TheHouseWon]

Ive been driving in the rain today and no issues yet

[MrPowell]

Originally Posted by apexlocator

This is what I tried to do. I understand the scientific route is to reduce as many variables as you can, but some of us have regular day jobs/business to run unrelated to the auto industry.

I had BMC filters, charcoal delete, and AP air scoops.
I did a baseline at EAS and got 639whp/648wtq, mid afternoon, ambient in the mid-high 90s.

Different day, after RK intakes installed, mid afternoon, ambient mid 90s, at EAS, put down 661whp/652wtq.

What is that, a 3% increase on the dyno lol. There is a definite increase though, maybe more at speed??....


I would have liked to do before/after RK intakes same day, but didnt have the time. And really, I wasnt looking at intakes when I did that baseline; a used set popped up and I decided to try it.

Temperature could be the same still, but difference in cool down time, did the car have better fuel on the second time (these ecu's adjust timing quite a bit on the fly), what correction factor was used on both runs, 4th or 5th gear runs on both, etc.

I have my own personal Dynojet 248 so I've spent a decent amount of time on the dyno with the M5. The power difference could be as simple as the car wasn't given enough time to cooldown. These cars don't have super restrictive intakes where you are going to see a HUGE jump in power after on the dyno. Plus the more air flow should have allowed the motor to make more torque in the low range because the car is breathing much better.

Just my opinion on the matter. I've seen plenty of debates over the years for different cars; where one person sees one thing/others see another (one sees a gain, others don't, etc). If I ever decide to do intakes on the car I'll do a back to back test on the dyno (pull before and after same day).

[apexlocator]

Originally Posted by MrPowell

Temperature could be the same still, but difference in cool down time, did the car have better fuel on the second time (these ecu's adjust timing quite a bit on the fly), what correction factor was used on both runs, 4th or 5th gear runs on both, etc.

I have my own personal Dynojet 248 so I've spent a decent amount of time on the dyno with the M5. The power difference could be as simple as the car wasn't given enough time to cooldown. These cars don't have super restrictive intakes where you are going to see a HUGE jump in power after on the dyno. Plus the more air flow should have allowed the motor to make more torque in the low range because the car is breathing much better.

Just my opinion on the matter. I've seen plenty of debates over the years for different cars; where one person sees one thing/others see another (one sees a gain, others don't, etc). If I ever decide to do intakes on the car I'll do a back to back test on the dyno (pull before and after same day).

All runs were 5th gear, with ~5min in between each run. EAS is a well known BMW shop here in socal, so I'm not sure about the technicalities of running a dyno or what correction factor they used.

Back to back, same day would be ideal, yes. But when I did my baseline, I was not looking at changing out the OEM box. A used set of RK intakes popped up and Raza posted some interesting flow charts for his product, so I tried it. But I am a big fan of OEM setups too. Another forum user posted his gains of 39whp from a completely OEM setup (charcoals in place) to RK intakes.

I disagree about the big torque increase. From my experience throughout the years with modding cars is that intakes only open up the top end. Headers and cat removals are where the big torque increases happen. But hey, my setup with the M5 is far from ideal. Wish I had my own dyno though (neighbors would be pissed though )

[MrPowell]

Originally Posted by apexlocator

All runs were 5th gear, with ~5min in between each run. EAS is a well known BMW shop here in socal, so I'm not sure about the technicalities of running a dyno or what correction factor they used.

Back to back, same day would be ideal, yes. But when I did my baseline, I was not looking at changing out the OEM box. A used set of RK intakes popped up and Raza posted some interesting flow charts for his product, so I tried it. But I am a big fan of OEM setups too. Another forum user posted his gains of 39whp from a completely OEM setup (charcoals in place) to RK intakes.

I disagree about the big torque increase. From my experience throughout the years with modding cars is that intakes only open up the top end. Headers and cat removals are where the big torque increases happen. But hey, my setup with the M5 is far from ideal. Wish I had my own dyno though (neighbors would be pissed though )

Spool should be quicker due to letting more air in quickly. I agree on the power up top, esp on a car with a super restrictive air intake setup. The issue I see is the intake piping isn't that bad of a design where it would be seen with just a fan in front of the car. I think the biggest gain, esp when you are discussing air flow characteristics, would be seen on a number like 60-130 or 1/4 mile pass because you have air being forced at that point.

On the Porsche for example the stock setup on the 996TT/997.1TT is TERRIBLE for airflow where you HAVE to upgrade to the aftermarket intake piping, Fender well intakes, or filters on the turbo (how my setup is run personally). Going from the super restrictive design to an opened you will see a big power increase as well as spool. Now going from like the fenderwell style intakes to a filter on the turbo it's not a HUGE improvement seen on the dyno itself unless you are really pushing lots of boost (30psi+ area) on a bigger set of turbos. On the road though yes more power will be seen with filters on turbo vs filters in the fenderwell because airflow is soooo much greater.

These are just my thoughts on the whole intake ordeal with these cars, I've been wrong plenty over the years. I just look at what allmotor2000 has done and that should be pretty obvious where if upgraded intakes were a huge upgrade it would be seen on the car with larger turbos with big amounts of boost.

The dyno is a good tool to have when you have lots of modded cars and plenty of law enforcement in the area LOL! The only issue is everyone you know into cars wants to use it like you don't have other things going on in life LOL!

[apexlocator]

I would love to see what RK and MSR intakes do on allmotor's big turbo/catless setup.

I would love even more to have a road to do 60-130 runs; but no such place where I live.

[TheHouseWon]

I call for a meeting at EAS to put this debate to rest! I can loan my RK intakes to allmotor after I run them on my car on the dyno, then I can run my stock set up. I will leave the JB4/BCM on the same map for all runs...

For scientific purposes of course.

[tec333]

Originally Posted by TheHouseWon

I call for a meeting at EAS to put this debate to rest! I can loan my RK intakes to allmotor after I run them on my car on the dyno, then I can run my stock set up. I will leave the JB4/BCM on the same map for all runs...

For scientific purposes of course.

I'll show up to to watch this 😂

[Lerxst M4]

Originally Posted by TheHouseWon

Oh, just saw pm...

Will reply

Replied again.

[allmotor_2000]

Originally Posted by apexlocator

I would love to see what RK and MSR intakes do on allmotor's big turbo/catless setup.

I would love even more to have a road to do 60-130 runs; but no such place where I live.

I have tried one of these and I preferred the stock box. Haven't tried the other brand.

[TheHouseWon]

Whoosh is a little louder as is blow off, so it is pretty cool. Can't speak too highly of the silicone elbow or the MAF fitting. All in all I would buy it at a much lower price than advertised and for an older used M car. Or keep it stock and spend the money on a tune/exhaust/meth/turbo/clutch



Just one guy's opinion

[apexlocator]

Doesn't MSR use a silicone elbow also? I don't think it's that bad. It would be a pain to get piping through that bend if it weren't flexible.

All of these intakes are overpriced, except for maybe the BMS.

[Mbdurham17]

Originally Posted by apexlocator

Doesn't MSR use a silicone elbow also? I don't think it's that bad. It would be a pain to get piping through that bend if it weren't flexible.

All of these intakes are overpriced, except for maybe the BMS.

Agree BMS is at the correct price point IMHO I'd expect the others at under $1k or without Mtax . I'd probably be a buyer around there I just can't bring myself to part with the $$$ at the asking price.

[13M5F10]

Originally Posted by apexlocator

Doesn't MSR use a silicone elbow also? I don't think it's that bad. It would be a pain to get piping through that bend if it weren't flexible.

All of these intakes are overpriced, except for maybe the BMS.

Yes it's a silicon elbow. I don't remember the exact thickness or size.