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      06-06-2014, 08:42 AM   #1
PhilT3
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Improve Handling of NON-CP M5...?

Hi guys...

So what's the one KEY component to change to improve the handling of a NON-CP model...WITHOUT sacrificing the ride quality.

Sway bars?
Springs?
Software?
Bushings?

It's for a Daily Driver and I transport customers and colleagues at times, so the ride quality NEEDS to be maintained.
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      06-06-2014, 09:04 AM   #2
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Sways... and then springs.
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      06-06-2014, 09:06 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilT3 View Post
So what's the one KEY component to change to improve the handling of a NON-CP model...WITHOUT sacrificing the ride quality.

It's for a Daily Driver and I transport customers and colleagues at times, so the ride quality NEEDS to be maintained.
It's always a combination of parts to make the handling better, but in my brief experience with the M5 I noticed a definite improvement with just the CP sway bar upgrade. Then, a further improvement by going to the 275/30-20 front tire for corner turn in and feel through the corner. That is from the stock 19" tire, so if you have the 20s already, maybe not such a difference. Still have stock springs and bushings and the only slight negative from the sway bars is that on a road surface that has undulations that affect either side of the car, but not both, the car will rock side to side slightly more than before. Very minor, and I doubt your passengers would mind.
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      06-06-2014, 09:16 AM   #4
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Keep in mind that everything will be at least a bit of a trade off. I doubt there is much (if anyting) you can do to improve the handling in any noticable way that will not also affect the ride at least minimally. I am not saying that it is necessarily a proportional gain to loss, but I don't think there are an "zero sacrifice" handling improvements out there.
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      06-06-2014, 09:41 AM   #5
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There is a member who wants to make his competition package M5 more softer/comfortable.

You should contact him and swap all suspension parts and leave really good iTrader feedbacks for each other. =D
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      06-06-2014, 09:42 AM   #6
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IMO

AC-Schnitzer springs, a small drop with a huge control improvement.
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      06-06-2014, 03:26 PM   #7
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I just addded M5 CP FSWB and M550d RSWB to my Eibach lowered, non M5 F10 (M5 RSWB doesn't fit on our "lesser" F10's ).

The lowering springs improved ride quality to a stiffer but still comfortable ride. Honestly, the major improvement was looks and not necessarily a better handling car...

The M5 CP FSWB and M550d RSWB on the other hand transformed the handling and steering feel of the car!!!

You can now push through the corners and feel how the front tires loads up and get a proper feedback on tire grip. It's so much more confidence inspiring and provides tons more feedback. It's so responsive to mid corner steering corrections and you definitely feel more in control over the car. You sense you can toss the car around in a totally different way. Turn the steering wheel and the car just responds! The ride quality haven't suffered noticeably. As mentioned above by another member, it might react more to uneven road surfaces that affects only one side of the car. But, it's not a big issue at all IMO.

This is on a regular F10, not a "fancy" M5. But I suspect that the stiffer sway bars of the CP makes a major impact on handling on the M5 as well. Just look at some of the videos online and notice how much flatter the CP corners compared to a non CP M5. That is mainly sway bars.
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      06-06-2014, 08:32 PM   #8
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Invest $3500 in a set of KW V3s and never look back.
Proper ride height, alignment, corner balance and compression/rebound settings makes this car handle better then an OE e92m3....it feels like it should have come this way from the factory.

Best, most underated and most misunderstood mod for the F10M5
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      06-07-2014, 03:01 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastek
Invest $3500 in a set of KW V3s and never look back.
Proper ride height, alignment, corner balance and compression/rebound settings makes this car handle better then an OE e92m3....it feels like it should have come this way from the factory.

Best, most underated and most misunderstood mod for the F10M5
I know many are happy with their KW suspension (I have also driven a M5 with KW coil overs and found that it was surprisingly comfortable. But I haven't driven a M5 CP so can't compare the M5 CP with the M5 on KW).

But you trade off the electronic damper settings for either a fixed setting (V1) or manually adjustable settings (V2 and V3). I personally would not want to loose the easy adjustability of the electronic dampers unless I only drove on one kind of road surface all the time...

With the V3's "infinitely" adjustable damper settings, how hard is it to find the right setting combinations? For me, with my limited track experience, I think that the V1 with settings determined by suspension engineers would have been a better choice?
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      06-07-2014, 04:39 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
I know many are happy with their KW suspension (I have also driven a M5 with KW coil overs and found that it was surprisingly comfortable. But I haven't driven a M5 CP so can't compare the M5 CP with the M5 on KW).

But you trade off the electronic damper settings for either a fixed setting (V1) or manually adjustable settings (V2 and V3). I personally would not want to loose the easy adjustability of the electronic dampers unless I only drove on one kind of road surface all the time...

With the V3's "infinitely" adjustable damper settings, how hard is it to find the right setting combinations? For me, with my limited track experience, I think that the V1 with settings determined by suspension engineers would have been a better choice?
There is no V1 or V2 for the F10M5
Only V3 and Clubsport

The OE damper adjustment is more gimmick then functionality. In the hardest setting all you gain is ride quality harshness with the "effect" of less body roll due to the compression being limited.

Lowering springs are more of the same with slightly lower center of gravity, mostly aesthetic for that lowered look.

To improve this car's handling you can a) replace the sway bars for a little less body roll and/or b) coilover kit

I was never a fan of KW until this F10M5 kit.
It makes the car handle 30% better without turning it into a bouncy Honda.
The street ride quality is amazing...it complies with bumps and road irregularities better then the OE adaptive shocks.

I have not done the sway bar upgrade ...but to be honest....with this KW V3 kit, I dont feel the need.

As far as the "infinite" settings on the KW V3s....not so much.... its actually 14 clicks on the rebound and 14 clicks on the compression. The settings are not that drastic between eachother....so more important then the compression and rebound settings is proper alignment, ride height and corner balance. Other then that I have both set to a medium setting with a little softer bias in the rear.

Last edited by mastek; 06-07-2014 at 04:58 AM..
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      06-07-2014, 06:05 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastek View Post
There is no V1 or V2 for the F10M5
Only V3 and Clubsport

The OE damper adjustment is more gimmick then functionality. In the hardest setting all you gain is ride quality harshness with the "effect" of less body roll due to the compression being limited.

Lowering springs are more of the same with slightly lower center of gravity, mostly aesthetic for that lowered look.

To improve this car's handling you can a) replace the sway bars for a little less body roll and/or b) coilover kit

I was never a fan of KW until this F10M5 kit.
It makes the car handle 30% better without turning it into a bouncy Honda.
The street ride quality is amazing...it complies with bumps and road irregularities better then the OE adaptive shocks.

I have not done the sway bar upgrade ...but to be honest....with this KW V3 kit, I dont feel the need.

As far as the "infinite" settings on the KW V3s....not so much.... its actually 14 clicks on the rebound and 14 clicks on the compression. The settings are not that drastic between eachother....so more important then the compression and rebound settings is proper alignment, ride height and corner balance. Other then that I have both set to a medium setting with a little softer bias in the rear.
Thanks for the great explanation and write up
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      06-07-2014, 10:33 AM   #12
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i've also experienced KWV3. While it's lowering it, it was actually more comfortable (very smooth ride) yet, extremely sharp in turns. It was non CP M5 and boy, I think F10M5 KWV3 is one the the best KWV3 application they've designed.
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      06-09-2014, 02:34 PM   #13
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I have had the AC springs fitted and can highly recommend them.
Makes the car look mean, hardly any difference in comfort and the car seems to perform so much better in the corners. Flatter and more precise.
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      06-12-2014, 10:01 AM   #14
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has anyone installed the dinan sways? if so did you set to most stiff setting or softer setting? wondering how much it changes comfort and why you choose this over the cp bars.
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      06-17-2014, 08:03 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chong0
has anyone installed the dinan sways? if so did you set to most stiff setting or softer setting? wondering how much it changes comfort and why you choose this over the cp bars.
I think stealth.pilot has
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      06-17-2014, 11:14 AM   #16
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What are the warranty implications for installing aftermarket springs? I did it on my Audi a few years back and they voided my suspension warranty. Has anyone had any issues with this?
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      06-17-2014, 01:07 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpower3330 View Post
What are the warranty implications for installing aftermarket springs? I did it on my Audi a few years back and they voided my suspension warranty. Has anyone had any issues with this?
After they void your Audi suspension warranty, did you have any issue?
Most likely BMW dealer will not like it if you modify it and they will try to blame any issue to aftermarket parts but honestly, it's pretty rare to have any issue on the suspension parts (I always upgraded suspension parts from my 99 M3 but never needed any service). So you don't need to worry too much (in my opinion).
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      06-17-2014, 02:26 PM   #18
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I have the Dinan Sways in the softest setting and I find it is a dramatic improvement over stock. Car is very flat.

I don't see any need to change springs.
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      06-17-2014, 02:27 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chong0
has anyone installed the dinan sways? if so did you set to most stiff setting or softer setting? wondering how much it changes comfort and why you choose this over the cp bars.
I am in the softest setting with the Dinan sways. BTW that is still 50% tighter than the competition package sways.

CP bars are too weak. They work in conjunction with stiffer springs and shocks.

IMO Dinan sways with OEM suspension delivers a more flat cornering with smoother ride than CP. This is the best of all worlds.
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      06-18-2014, 02:01 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth.pilot View Post
I am in the softest setting with the Dinan sways. BTW that is still 50% tighter than the competition package sways.

CP bars are too weak. They work in conjunction with stiffer springs and shocks.

IMO Dinan sways with OEM suspension delivers a more flat cornering with smoother ride than CP. This is the best of all worlds.
Stealth do you have a CP M5 or no? My car is non-CP. Definitely thinking about the Dinan sways. Where/what vendor did you pick them up from? Thanks
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      06-18-2014, 02:05 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpower3330 View Post
Stealth do you have a CP M5 or no? My car is non-CP. Definitely thinking about the Dinan sways. Where/what vendor did you pick them up from? Thanks
Non CP M5, and I deliberately bought a non-CP M5. Ride quality was very important to me. I thought the Dinan Sways were a fantastic upgrade because they take away the body roll of the standard M5, without compromising the ride quality over bumps.

The reason for buying the Dinan Sways over CP sways is because they are 35%-70% stiffer than stock based on the setting.

CP sways are only 20% stiffer, because they also work in conjunctions with stiffer springs and shocks to reduce body roll.

In case of a non-CP car, you need the sways to do more work when cornering so that's why I went with Dinan. It's also a really high quality product.

I bought them and installed them at my local Independent Dinan dealer. I was going to buy from the BMW dealer but in the end I didn't trust them with my car so I went to the Independent Dinan dealer who is actually a friend of Coldlist. These guys were superb. They also did my exhaust.
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      06-18-2014, 02:13 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth.pilot View Post
Non CP M5, and I deliberately bought a non-CP M5. Ride quality was very important to me. I thought the Dinan Sways were a fantastic upgrade because they take away the body roll of the standard M5, without compromising the ride quality over bumps.

The reason for buying the Dinan Sways over CP sways is because they are 35%-70% stiffer than stock based on the setting.

CP sways are only 20% stiffer, because they also work in conjunctions with stiffer springs and shocks to reduce body roll.

In case of a non-CP car, you need the sways to do more work when cornering so that's why I went with Dinan. It's also a really high quality product.

I bought them and installed them at my local Independent Dinan dealer. I was going to buy from the BMW dealer but in the end I didn't trust them with my car so I went to the Independent Dinan dealer who is actually a friend of Coldlist. These guys were superb. They also did my exhaust.
Excellent. Thanks Stealth! Very helpful. I will definitely be getting these instead of the springs. The one thing that I've disliked with the M5 is the roll, when compared to my E46 M3 (which was lowered with springs) it is terrible. The roll makes me a little nervous in the corners. This should also help deal with the BMW warranty issue, as it should not effect it when installed at Dinan dealer correct?
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