M5POST
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   M5POST - BMW M5 Forum > F10 M5 Forum > BMW M5 (F10) General Forum

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-02-2013, 08:59 PM   #23
Bokke
Major
Bokke's Avatar
570
Rep
1,320
Posts

Drives: E90M3/991.2GT3/G82M4CSL/9YOTGT
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdList View Post
Hey thanks! LOVE your car. In fact, I have to credit you with the idea for the body color mesh in the fender grilles. I actually was going to order an Orange/Black but I was at the dealer dropping off my Wife's X5 for service and I saw this and had to have it. It was custom ordered and the guy did not close the deal. Had every bit of equipment that I was going to order including the Piano Black trim. The color combo blew me away and she came home with me that day. I am sooooo ridiculously impulsive with these things ad it costs me so much but that's why we are car nuts!
__________________
Garage:
09 E90 ///M3 | SS | Black | Modded
22 992.1 GT3 | Black | PCCB | LWB | PDK
23 G82 ///M4CSL | AW | Race Buckets |
24 9YO Cayenne TGT | QGM| Burgundy | Neodyne / PCCB
Appreciate 0
      02-03-2013, 02:18 PM   #24
ColdList
Brigadier General
ColdList's Avatar
151
Rep
3,041
Posts

Drives: McLaren 675LT / C7 Z07
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta, GA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3PGH View Post
Mike,
Car looks great! Quick question, how did you permanently open the valves? I mentioned it to my dealer and they were pretty clueless about it.
Thanks,
Jason
Well now I would hesitate on doing that if I were you until a few confirmations can be made. I spoke to a performance guy at Caffeine & Octane today that said that keeping them open slows the turbo spool up. Ugh! My guy is a guru too so I am not sure who to believe. I will find out more and post info.
Appreciate 0
      02-03-2013, 02:55 PM   #25
Bimmer6
Colonel
Bimmer6's Avatar
632
Rep
2,253
Posts

Drives: 458SPY, GT3RS on the way
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: ATL

iTrader: (0)

Thanks

Appreciate the invite today, now we have to find the rest of the ATL M5's.
Appreciate 0
      02-03-2013, 02:57 PM   #26
Rob///M5
Major
Rob///M5's Avatar
76
Rep
1,341
Posts

Drives: 2013 M5 SSII
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: San Diego

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2013 BMW M5  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdList
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3PGH View Post
Mike,
Car looks great! Quick question, how did you permanently open the valves? I mentioned it to my dealer and they were pretty clueless about it.
Thanks,
Jason
Well now I would hesitate on doing that if I were you until a few confirmations can be made. I spoke to a performance guy at Caffeine & Octane today that said that keeping them open slows the turbo spool up. Ugh! My guy is a guru too so I am not sure who to believe. I will find out more and post info.
Interested in the outcome. Many aftermarket exhausts have no valves, so that's key info.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      02-03-2013, 03:46 PM   #27
Warehouser
Private First Class
Warehouser's Avatar
29
Rep
147
Posts

Drives: 22 X5M TBlue2
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: SE Texas

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdList View Post
Well now I would hesitate on doing that if I were you until a few confirmations can be made. I spoke to a performance guy at Caffeine & Octane today that said that keeping them open slows the turbo spool up. Ugh! My guy is a guru too so I am not sure who to believe. I will find out more and post info.
Aren't most aftermarket exhausts free flowing anyway? Hartage has an axle back that is nothing but piping w/tips and no muffler.

Appreciate 0
      02-03-2013, 04:32 PM   #28
ColdList
Brigadier General
ColdList's Avatar
151
Rep
3,041
Posts

Drives: McLaren 675LT / C7 Z07
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta, GA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warehouser View Post
Aren't most aftermarket exhausts free flowing anyway? Hartage has an axle back that is nothing but piping w/tips and no muffler.

Yeah, likely the reason I lost low end torque with the Eisenmann.
Appreciate 0
      02-03-2013, 04:58 PM   #29
Rob///M5
Major
Rob///M5's Avatar
76
Rep
1,341
Posts

Drives: 2013 M5 SSII
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: San Diego

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2013 BMW M5  [10.00]
Seriously? You lost low end torque with just the rear cans? I really want to understand this and hear from the mass of others who have installed E Race exhausts (or any others for that matter).

Dyno runs don't illustrate anything, right? As they're not really measuring low end torque.
Appreciate 0
      02-03-2013, 05:34 PM   #30
Rob///M5
Major
Rob///M5's Avatar
76
Rep
1,341
Posts

Drives: 2013 M5 SSII
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: San Diego

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2013 BMW M5  [10.00]
Here's a writeup for Supersprint's muffler. Interesting that they make the exact opposite claim:

"The factory one-piece muffler system has a complex design, which includes a built in flapper valve on one side of the system that has the sole purpose to alter the sound note at certain pre-set rpm levels. This design reduces performance at low RPM. Supersprint rear mufflers alone increase the torque and max hp by a significant amount, especially at low rpm."

Will be worth testing this out!
Appreciate 0
      02-03-2013, 07:17 PM   #31
ColdList
Brigadier General
ColdList's Avatar
151
Rep
3,041
Posts

Drives: McLaren 675LT / C7 Z07
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta, GA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob///M5 View Post
Here's a writeup for Supersprint's muffler. Interesting that they make the exact opposite claim:

"The factory one-piece muffler system has a complex design, which includes a built in flapper valve on one side of the system that has the sole purpose to alter the sound note at certain pre-set rpm levels. This design reduces performance at low RPM. Supersprint rear mufflers alone increase the torque and max hp by a significant amount, especially at low rpm."

Will be worth testing this out!
I would call total bs on that. Not sure how they are measuring low end torque. Ever seen that reported? Marketing bro. Mine ran like crap. Also the middle section the the stock F10 pipes has two TINY resonators. Most difference is made by the cans as far as noise and torque/hp. No doubt there are top end hp gains. Only makes sense. Low end torque does not. Silly argument though but everyone likes to have it. Truthfully the exhausts are done for NOISE. Any gains are so minimal. Funny to hear claims of 30+ hp gains. All the cars have a 600 cell primary cat and 400 cell secondary cat in the down pipes. Swapping those to a performance down pipe with a 300 cell primary and a secondary delete only nets you about 40 hp. So now tell me exactly how 30+ is realized with pipes behind those. C'mon. Living in fantasyland.

Last edited by ColdList; 02-05-2013 at 07:38 PM..
Appreciate 0
      02-03-2013, 07:29 PM   #32
BodyPlexM5
Private First Class
9
Rep
144
Posts

Drives: 2013 M5 Azurite Back
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Athens Ga

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer6
Appreciate the invite today, now we have to find the rest of the ATL M5's.
I'm an ATL guy too
Appreciate 0
      02-03-2013, 07:59 PM   #33
ColdList
Brigadier General
ColdList's Avatar
151
Rep
3,041
Posts

Drives: McLaren 675LT / C7 Z07
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta, GA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BodyPlexM5 View Post
I'm an ATL guy too
You guys should introduce yourselves on the M-Atlanta FB page. There were several guys from there at C&O today. E60 & F10.
Appreciate 0
      02-04-2013, 07:45 AM   #34
jmh
Internet Crash Test Dummy
jmh's Avatar
United_States
331
Rep
1,055
Posts

Drives: F97 X3MC / F80 M3 / F90 M5
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Under a rock in NH and BOS

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdList View Post
I would call total bs on that. The super sprint alters baffling just like others. Not sure how they are measuring low end torque. Ever seen that reported? Marketing bro. Mine ran like crap. Also the middle section the the stock F10 pipes has two TINY resonators. Most difference is made by the cans as far as noise and torque/hp. No doubt there are top end hp gains. Only makes sense. Low end torque does not. Silly argument though but everyone likes to have it. Truthfully the exhausts are done for NOISE. Any gains are so minimal. Funny to hear claims of 30+ hp gains. All the cars have a 600 cell primary cat and 400 cell secondary cat in the down pipes. Swapping those to a performance down pipe with a 300 cell primary and a secondary delete only nets you about 40 hp. So now tell me exactly how 30+ is realized with pipes behind those. C'mon. Living in fantasyland.
So where's the secondary cat on the F10 M5 ?

There have been reports of folks running Eisenman exhaust (early in the lifecycle) where
the vacuum lines have been wrong or not attached at all, causing the car to run much worse than before.
__________________
21 F97 X3MC Toronto Red/Black and more | 18 F80 M3 Tanzanite Blue/Amaro/CCB and more
15 F10 M5 Individual / Brilliant White / Extended/Full Cohiba Brown (Exec/Driver/B&O/20") / A few Euro add-ons / Stealth K40 / Upgraded B&O / ///M Performance Carbon Interior Trim / IND / Akrapovic Evolution Exhaust / HRE S107
Appreciate 0
      02-04-2013, 11:47 AM   #35
Vic55
Lieutenant General
Vic55's Avatar
18868
Rep
10,072
Posts

Drives: 2023 BMW M8 Competition Coupe
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: THE Orange County

iTrader: (9)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmh View Post
So where's the secondary cat on the F10 M5 ?

There have been reports of folks running Eisenman exhaust (early in the lifecycle) where
the vacuum lines have been wrong or not attached at all, causing the car to run much worse than before.

I run an Eisenmann Race- zero tq loss--- dyno'd my car at EAS after the exhaust was installed. I dont think I gained any power but I didnt lose any either based on these numbers. The car runs very strong based on my tangible experience with 500+ hp cars.

I did not get the exhaust with valve controls so my installer did plug the lines because if you dont you will not have any boost and essentially will run a 300 hp car. I dont care about the valves as I always want my car in the loudest format.

FYI although the dyno graph says I have a center pipe- I do not... just axle back. The below numbers are SAE corrected too... std correction yielded 550hp.

__________________
2023 BMW M8 Coupe Competition Alpine White
2022 BMW M3 Competition XDrive Aventurine Red
2022 Porsche Carrera GTS Coupe Shark Blue
2020 Audi R8 V10 Performance Suzuka Gray
2012 Mercedes Benz C63 AMG Black Series Obsidian Black

Last edited by Vic55; 02-04-2013 at 12:01 PM..
Appreciate 0
      02-04-2013, 11:50 AM   #36
Nate@IND
Nate@IND's Avatar
2862
Rep
11,374
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (19)

The Beast is looking good thanks again!

The low end tq rumor was started a by a Cali company in the E60 M5 market since the eisenmann was selling better.
__________________
IND DISTRIBUTION | 866-963-4520 • FACEBOOKINSTAGRAMFLICKR
Appreciate 0
      02-04-2013, 12:02 PM   #37
SANguru
Lieutenant
57
Rep
426
Posts

Drives: i8, X5 50,M550i,Tesla, MP4-12c
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate@IND View Post
The Beast is looking good thanks again!

The low end tq rumor was started a by a Cali company in the E60 M5 market since the eisenmann was selling better.
Exactly Nate. No muffler, straight through no restriction on a turbo car = faster spool up = more torque not less.
Appreciate 0
      02-04-2013, 06:30 PM   #38
ColdList
Brigadier General
ColdList's Avatar
151
Rep
3,041
Posts

Drives: McLaren 675LT / C7 Z07
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta, GA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SANguru View Post
Exactly Nate. No muffler, straight through no restriction on a turbo car = faster spool up = more torque not less.
Deleting my ridiculous rant....completely beside myself to find out how the tech failed to properly plug my vacuum lines. Ugh...I should have investigated more carefully. Thanks to Ilya at IND for getting down to the actual apparent issue. Exhaust will be reinstalled tomorrow am with fully and properly sealed vacuum lines.

Last edited by ColdList; 02-05-2013 at 07:42 PM..
Appreciate 0
      02-04-2013, 06:31 PM   #39
ColdList
Brigadier General
ColdList's Avatar
151
Rep
3,041
Posts

Drives: McLaren 675LT / C7 Z07
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta, GA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate@IND View Post
The Beast is looking good thanks again!

The low end tq rumor was started a by a Cali company in the E60 M5 market since the eisenmann was selling better.
Thank you Nate. our IND parts are absolutely first class and dealing with you guys on them has been a true pleasure as well.

BTW-I had never heard that rumor although I know EXACTLY who you mean. I am basing this on my own experience period. Noticeable right away and was instantly corrected with re-installation of OEM system. Feels like a different car. In fact, I was following a 335i from the dealer in a spirited chase. He would stomp on it when turning onto different streets and I actually felt like I had to wait for the car to get up into full torque then I would close the gap. Trust me, I would have loved for the issues with the Eisenmann to have not been real. I want a nice deep throaty sound. I am not exactly an OEM guy with performance, looks or sound. We will be doing LOTs of business together-lol!

Last edited by ColdList; 02-05-2013 at 07:45 PM..
Appreciate 0
      02-04-2013, 06:36 PM   #40
ColdList
Brigadier General
ColdList's Avatar
151
Rep
3,041
Posts

Drives: McLaren 675LT / C7 Z07
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta, GA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SANguru View Post
Exactly Nate. No muffler, straight through no restriction on a turbo car = faster spool up = more torque not less.
Dude, you DO realize that there is actually NO BAFFLING on the stock exhaust too right? It is ALSO "straight pipe" with the exception of two tiny resonators int he mid pipes that cannot possibly have much effect whatsoever. Read my big post above thoroughly then you might see some reason for questioning.

It is ok to voice opinions but to tell me outright that I did NOT experience what I ACTUALLY experienced (as opposed to "theorized") is sort of like calling me a liar. I know that was likely not your intent but I still cannot understand how anyone could tell me "there is no torque loss" when they were not there and I actually experienced this. I am not giving opinion in this case. I am giving you absolute fact. Car ran like crap. Exhaust removed and OEM replaced=car fixed-definitive end of story (and yes those lines were capped too.) Kind of like me looking at the blue sky and you telling me it's green.

Last edited by ColdList; 02-04-2013 at 06:53 PM..
Appreciate 0
      02-04-2013, 06:39 PM   #41
ColdList
Brigadier General
ColdList's Avatar
151
Rep
3,041
Posts

Drives: McLaren 675LT / C7 Z07
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta, GA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmh View Post
So where's the secondary cat on the F10 M5 ?

There have been reports of folks running Eisenman exhaust (early in the lifecycle) where
the vacuum lines have been wrong or not attached at all, causing the car to run much worse than before.
Secondary cats are in the downpipes also. You have a 600 cell primary and a 400 cell secondary.
Appreciate 0
      02-04-2013, 06:47 PM   #42
ColdList
Brigadier General
ColdList's Avatar
151
Rep
3,041
Posts

Drives: McLaren 675LT / C7 Z07
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta, GA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdList View Post
Well now I would hesitate on doing that if I were you until a few confirmations can be made. I spoke to a performance guy at Caffeine & Octane today that said that keeping them open slows the turbo spool up. Ugh! My guy is a guru too so I am not sure who to believe. I will find out more and post info.
Following up on this it appears that the valves are there purely for noise reduction and that BMWs earliest assessment was that they were there to eliminate drone. Mine wired open produce no drone whatsoever.
Appreciate 0
      02-04-2013, 08:19 PM   #43
SANguru
Lieutenant
57
Rep
426
Posts

Drives: i8, X5 50,M550i,Tesla, MP4-12c
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (0)

My dyno shows gain in torque. Did you dyno it?? BTW, ever heard of adaptation? You take it off and not let the ECU adapt or start right up, of course it will run like crap.

You are not a liar.. just inexperienced

not my car so I don't really care. You can go believe what you want to believe

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdList View Post
Dude, you DO realize that there is actually NO BAFFLING on the stock exhaust too right? It is ALSO "straight pipe" with the exception of two tiny resonators int he mid pipes that cannot possibly have much effect whatsoever. Read my big post above thoroughly then you might see some reason for questioning.

It is ok to voice opinions but to tell me outright that I did NOT experience what I ACTUALLY experienced (as opposed to "theorized") is sort of like calling me a liar. I know that was likely not your intent but I still cannot understand how anyone could tell me "there is no torque loss" when they were not there and I actually experienced this. I am not giving opinion in this case. I am giving you absolute fact. Car ran like crap. Exhaust removed and OEM replaced=car fixed-definitive end of story (and yes those lines were capped too.) Kind of like me looking at the blue sky and you telling me it's green.
Appreciate 0
      02-04-2013, 08:43 PM   #44
jmh
Internet Crash Test Dummy
jmh's Avatar
United_States
331
Rep
1,055
Posts

Drives: F97 X3MC / F80 M3 / F90 M5
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Under a rock in NH and BOS

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdList View Post
Secondary cats are in the downpipes also. You have a 600 cell primary and a 400 cell secondary.


I guess I wish you all the best in your quest for power and hopefully it will all work out as you desire.
__________________
21 F97 X3MC Toronto Red/Black and more | 18 F80 M3 Tanzanite Blue/Amaro/CCB and more
15 F10 M5 Individual / Brilliant White / Extended/Full Cohiba Brown (Exec/Driver/B&O/20") / A few Euro add-ons / Stealth K40 / Upgraded B&O / ///M Performance Carbon Interior Trim / IND / Akrapovic Evolution Exhaust / HRE S107
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:26 AM.




m5post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST