An Interesting and relevant thread

[DIMBA]

I went through this thought process 2 years ago when changing from my E92 M3, I had convinced myself that a tamer more sensible ride would suffice! Too many cameras too much traffic.
I was wrong my 640d MSport was/is a great car, but in no way can match the thrill of the occasional mental blast of an M car.
The 6 is garaged long live my M5

[clar]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

... Maybe it's time for a new hobby. Lol!

Totally with you on this! We have even more stringent laws here and i certainly feel that I am suffocating my M5. I recently started getting into go karting seriously and bought my own kart. No road cars in the world is going to touch it when it comes to rawness. Your ass is 2 inches off the road with no suspension, no abs, no DSC, etc...It's also a lot cheaper and safer compared to tracking with road cars.

[soooma]

Originally Posted by 6spdterror

My take on it is similar to most of you guys. I LOVE DRIVING. I dont look at cars as a point A to point B aparatus. I have to like it if im going to drive it. Being a sales manager for a dealership gives me access to drive all kinds of cars and its a dream career for a gearhead like myself. That being said, you cant have an M5 as your only car living in NYC. My AWD Acura TL only has 305 HP but i drive it at its max almost everytime i drive it and it doesnt garner any extra attention from the cops, still gives relative great gas mileage (at least compared to the M5!), is as reliable as old faithful and with a 6 speed manual tranny is as fun to drive as any. I always turn off traction control in it and i can act like a hooligan regardless of weather conditions. So one might ask...."why own 100k+, 560 HP, RWD impractical beast?!?" Because you cant put a price on the euphoric feeling you get when you do drive it. Its annoying to have to check the forecast everyday to decide which car youre going to drive but when i do drive my M5 and get to stretch the legs a little, im like a kid in toys r us for the first time all over again! I know im preaching to the choir here since we all own the same car but even when i walk up to my car just looking at it standing still makes me smile, it never gets old.
On another note, i took my wife to the beautiful island of St Lucia a couple months back for vacay. I met the only F10 M5 owner on the island (yes theres only one in that whole island nation!) Very nice guy that owned a couple businesses and he couldnt stop ranting how he loves to drive his M5 all the time because its always great weather, crime rate is so low that you never even see the cops and if u do get pulled over by one, nothing a quick "donation" wont fix! I explained to him my troubles in NYC and he says "i would never live there!"
All in all, life is way too short and we all should be thankful we can afford to enjoy such an amazing machine.

Nice post
I agree

[Palmnuts]

Originally Posted by Dionysus

That's sort of where my head is, however, if I had an 911 for occasional use, and a sensible car (say 520d) as DD, I believe I'd get more frustrated driving the 520d at all times (traffic or not) then driving an M5 and occasionally getting caught in traffic (obviously, if I was caught in traffic all the time, I might not think the same). IMHO, M5 isn't special enough to use as occasional car (having said that I park mine up for weeks at a time, but it is still my DD).

Originally Posted by skrambles297

I'm glad that it's not just me having such thoughts!

I don't want to stick the car in the garage and use another simpler car on a daily basis: the m5 is special but it is not sufficiently special (in my view) for that sort of treatment. With this sort of car, I now believe in the wisdom of the expression "use it or lose it". With my e60, I had a similar issue and, for quite a while, I took the train to work instead of driving it because it didn't feel special enough to just potter around in: soon, I realised that I simply wasn't using the car enough and so used it for the commute as well as other stuff. But, again, it had to be given a bootful to come alive and that wasn't really possible on UK roads.

I am currently wondering whether something as simple as changing the exhaust on the m5 would make it more satisfying/less frustrating for general use, or whether it's time to start the search for something more exciting or visceral: m4? r8 v10? Jag F type R? 911 gt3?

I concur with everything in the above posts and strangely I've had almost the exact same thought processes myself!

Firstly, I've frequently considered buying myself a second, more ordinary daily drive. I had an SLS earlier this year and when that proved 'inappropriate' for work, I had the choice of a) buying something for work and keeping the SLS for weekend use or, b) get rid of it and buy something else that I can use all the time.

Despite the 'specialness' of the SLS, I just didn't see the point of paying all that money to leave it the garage whilst I smoked about in something inferior...I'd end up hating every minute of my everyday driving! So, that led me onto he M6 which is as good as the SLS (if not better in many respects) but is also something I can use everyday (to most, it's just a big posh BMW rather than a supercar). The irony is the SLS cost less than my M6

I have also had exactly the same thoughts about the exhaust. Despite being an inferior car in most respects, I really do miss my previous Jaguar XKR-S and one of the reasons was the outrageous sound. It was also quite a bit more involving to drive than the M6, if ultimately less capable, but it's the sound that I miss the most. It's also aural qualities that can make a car 'feel' fast even when you're not travelling quickly, but, because these big-M's are so refined they never benefit from a 'fast' sound (until you are actually travelling too fast!). Then, to further screw things in my head, I really rate the refinement of the M6 and worry that an aftermarket exhaust would permanently ruin this!

I have considered all of the other cars you've suggested too - all are cars that I highly rate and, with my previous positive experience of Jaguar, an F-Type R really interests me. But they're too expensive and Jaguar are well off the pace on their finance deals so, combined with M5/6 levels of deprecation, they're just too expensive until Jaguar start doing some crazy up-front discounts.

I might have the opportunity to get my M3/4 fix as I'm considering swapping our M135i for one in the summer Given I rated my previous e92 M3 so highly for it's huge grin factor, the new cars' much lower weight and higher output bodes well for it being a real hoot.

In the end, as '6spdterror' said earlier, we're all extremely lucky to be in the position to experience the cars we have, which are actually dream cars to most people. We're very spoilt with the choices available and this can make us think the grass is greener elsewhere.....which as we know, isn't often the case.

[skrambles297]

Originally Posted by Dionysus

That's sort of where my head is, however, if I had an 911 for occasional use, and a sensible car (say 520d) as DD, I believe I'd get more frustrated driving the 520d at all times (traffic or not) then driving an M5 and occasionally getting caught in traffic (obviously, if I was caught in traffic all the time, I might not think the same). IMHO, M5 isn't special enough to use as occasional car (having said that I park mine up for weeks at a time, but it is still my DD).

M5 works great for me as DD and I don't regret buying it. What I still feel I'm missing is a true sports car, but just couldn't use a 991, 981, even Mini Cooper as long distance car. Too many currupting 'dual nationality' threads on this forum.

That's my answer to Autocar's 'how much power is enough question' (560hp is fine in UK as long as it's used with discretion).

I would question the traction limitations more than the power in this car.

Clearly in my case power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely!

This is the "dilemma" I had when I had the e60 m5. I used it as the DD, got a bit frustrated, and hankered after a "real" sports car. So I ditched it and got a 911, but didn't want to use that for the daily commute cos it's a manual turbo, and therefore bought a normal car for that task. I then started to get hacked off during the week, really missing the m5, so went out and got the f10.

You're definitely spot on about it being miles better being in the m5 than a lesser car, even though having all that power can be frustrating! Just looking at the car after a hard day at work brings a big smile to my face, while firing up the v8 & watching the M appear in the HUD makes me eager for a fun drive home, even if traffic often doesn't allow me to give the car a workout.

I've found that the power is no problem in the m5, provided that the throttle is applied progressively, even when running with the PSS in current weather conditions. I don't remember the e60 being any different. It doesn't have the traction of the 911 turbo, which means that setting off rapidly or dropping cogs at high speed requires more care, but the car piles on speed so quickly that it usually makes no real difference to progress and in a way makes the process engaging and rewarding.

[Palmnuts]

Originally Posted by Dionysus

I was toying with a Porsche keeper alongside the M5, perhaps 991 GT3, but posts such as this are making me concerned that the performance may go to waste, even if the handling does not. Starting to feel that I may be disappointed, even with 981 Cayman S - I know both of these would turn into 'garage queens'. A Mini Cooper S would probably turn out to be more fun and a lot more useable (I never use the M5 for local runs & GT3/Cayman S would go the same way).

I don't think you'd see a GT3 in the same way I did my Turbo...it's N/A, more hardcore, focused, noiser and RWD. All these things will make it a satisfying sports car to enjoy....but then probably not something you'd want you use everyday.

I also think for similar (but less extreme) reasons, a 981 would be a really fun car but again, not a patch on the M5 as a daily.

Both of the above are fun, more occasional cars which works for some people. For me though, it's a concept I really struggle with. I seem to only be able to cope with one nice car at a time (although I get round this by changing far too frequently) and I find it hard enough choosing which to drive on a weekend between mine and the missus's M135i. God only knows what it'll be like if we get an M3 for her!

It's also the reason I end up with cars like the Turbo instead of a GT3 - I love the idea of a GT3 but would probably hate the reality. Then I moan about the Turbo not being involving enough....god, I'm beyond help!

As I said above, were spoilt for choice!

[Palmnuts]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

I'm also starting wonder if the BMW i8 isn't such a bad idea. Now if all the production slots weren't sold already. Hmmm... Lol!

I think what appeals about the i8 also is the fact it's something genuinely different (but without silly compromises). It doesn't need to be the fastest etc. because it's appeal is getting to know something genuinely new.

Originally Posted by RPiM5

There's 3 things I really LOVE about driving the F10 M5 in heavy traffic. #1 DCT. #2 Bang&Olufsen #3 Smell of my Full Leather cabin.

I concur with B&O - in terms of audio systems, it really has spoilt me.

Not only the sound, which is tremendous, but the build quality and integration - I honestly don't know how BMW engineer it to go sooo loud with any rattles or vibrations on the surrounding trim.

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Is it bad that I wish I could do this everyday in my F10 M5? Lol! No, just kidding. But really I wish I could, but no just kidding.


http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9a3_1382188356

Total insanity , if the biker had made just one wrong move............................................:h elp:

[Simon H]

Originally Posted by Palmnuts

I don't think you'd see a GT3 in the same way I did my Turbo...it's N/A, more hardcore, focused, noiser and RWD. All these things will make it a satisfying sports car to enjoy....but then probably not something you'd want you use everyday.

I also think for similar (but less extreme) reasons, a 981 would be a really fun car but again, not a patch on the M5 as a daily.

Both of the above are fun, more occasional cars which works for some people. For me though, it's a concept I really struggle with. I seem to only be able to cope with one nice car at a time (although I get round this by changing far too frequently) and I find it hard enough choosing which to drive on a weekend between mine and the missus's M135i. God only knows what it'll be like if we get an M3 for her!

It's also the reason I end up with cars like the Turbo instead of a GT3 - I love the idea of a GT3 but would probably hate the reality. Then I moan about the Turbo not being involving enough....god, I'm beyond help!

As I said above, were spoilt for choice!

Andrew,
How do you rate the M135i, for the fun factor alone ?. I drove an auto model the other day, and really, really enjoyed the car, so much so, i didnt want to take it back to the showroom. Ive actually sold my M5, as i have a lot on, financially, this year, but i still want a fun car to blast around in, and i think the M135I hits the spot for me on all counts, especially price against performance. I know i would use it at every opportunity, in all weathers, and leave it in most places, something i would just not do with the M5. I seemed to put that car on a pedestal, and was so fussy with it, that it seemed to hinder my enjoyment of the car. I feel that coming down the ranks somewhat, would actually benefit someone like myself, and i would get some proper use out of the car. The M135i, really impressed me, especially with its auto box, which was as quick as a DCT, and the exhaust note was very grin inducing, straight out of the box. I know the M3/4 will appear on my radar at some point, but not for a while, so im keen on the M135i, and would value your opinions, thankyou, regards, SIMON.

[skrambles297]

Originally Posted by Palmnuts

I concur with everything in the above posts and strangely I've had almost the exact same thought processes myself!

Firstly, I've frequently considered buying myself a second, more ordinary daily drive. I had an SLS earlier this year and when that proved 'inappropriate' for work, I had the choice of a) buying something for work and keeping the SLS for weekend use or, b) get rid of it and buy something else that I can use all the time.

Despite the 'specialness' of the SLS, I just didn't see the point of paying all that money to leave it the garage whilst I smoked about in something inferior...I'd end up hating every minute of my everyday driving! So, that led me onto he M6 which is as good as the SLS (if not better in many respects) but is also something I can use everyday (to most, it's just a big posh BMW rather than a supercar). The irony is the SLS cost less than my M6

I have also had exactly the same thoughts about the exhaust. Despite being an inferior car in most respects, I really do miss my previous Jaguar XKR-S and one of the reasons was the outrageous sound. It was also quite a bit more involving to drive than the M6, if ultimately less capable, but it's the sound that I miss the most. It's also aural qualities that can make a car 'feel' fast even when you're not travelling quickly, but, because these big-M's are so refined they never benefit from a 'fast' sound (until you are actually travelling too fast!). Then, to further screw things in my head, I really rate the refinement of the M6 and worry that an aftermarket exhaust would permanently ruin this!

I have considered all of the other cars you've suggested too - all are cars that I highly rate and, with my previous positive experience of Jaguar, an F-Type R really interests me. But they're too expensive and Jaguar are well off the pace on their finance deals so, combined with M5/6 levels of deprecation, they're just too expensive until Jaguar start doing some crazy up-front discounts.

I might have the opportunity to get my M3/4 fix as I'm considering swapping our M135i for one in the summer Given I rated my previous e92 M3 so highly for it's huge grin factor, the new cars' much lower weight and higher output bodes well for it being a real hoot.

In the end, as '6spdterror' said earlier, we're all extremely lucky to be in the position to experience the cars we have, which are actually dream cars to most people. We're very spoilt with the choices available and this can make us think the grass is greener elsewhere.....which as we know, isn't often the case.

Agree with all of this, and there I was thinking that I was the only one to have gone through this - perhaps it's just the endless search for motoring perfection, which only the true pistonhead can experience!

I got a glossy leaflet through the post last night from BMW about the m3/m4 and won't be able to resist taking a look!

[Palmnuts]

Originally Posted by Simon H

Andrew,
How do you rate the M135i, for the fun factor alone ?. I drove an auto model the other day, and really, really enjoyed the car, so much so, i didnt want to take it back to the showroom. Ive actually sold my M5, as i have a lot on, financially, this year, but i still want a fun car to blast around in, and i think the M135I hits the spot for me on all counts, especially price against performance. I know i would use it at every opportunity, in all weathers, and leave it in most places, something i would just not do with the M5. I seemed to put that car on a pedestal, and was so fussy with it, that it seemed to hinder my enjoyment of the car. I feel that coming down the ranks somewhat, would actually benefit someone like myself, and i would get some proper use out of the car. The M135i, really impressed me, especially with its auto box, which was as quick as a DCT, and the exhaust note was very grin inducing, straight out of the box. I know the M3/4 will appear on my radar at some point, but not for a while, so im keen on the M135i, and would value your opinions, thankyou, regards, SIMON.

Simon, the short answer is that I bought one despite thinking its one of the ugliest munters around . In all seriousness, it is fantastic and for everyday fun-factor, it's probably better than my M6.

Handling-wise, it's so well set-up for the road - it's firm, chuckable yet really compliant. You can slide it around easily without feeling like it's getting out of hand or going to take out the next town like the big M-cars. I'd imagine it'd be a bit soft on track, but then I don't use it on a track. I think on a bumpy B-road I can carry 10mph more in the M135i than I can in the M6 because it's smaller (and therefore easier to place...don't underestimate the value of this) and it doesn't have the sheer weight of the big-M to contain so recovers from undulations that much quicker.

It also sounds great and because it's significantly less powerful, you can properly ring it out. It's funny because to most people, a small 320bhp car is very fast. And it is....to anyone not used to driving a near 600bhp car everyday. To me it feels quick, but no more.

The gearbox is exceptional although it's so good that some say it takes much of the feel / interaction away. I can understand this view but you can't deny its effectiveness and I'd say it changes gear as-near-as-damn-it fast as the M-DCT, yet is much smoother in urban driving.

Finally, whilst it doesn't have the sheer opulence of the bigger cars, I think it can also act the mini-GT perfectly well - it feels nicely made inside and it has the kind of rolling refinement you'd expect from its great drivetrain.

[EdM5]

Originally Posted by DIMBA

I went through this thought process 2 years ago when changing from my E92 M3, I had convinced myself that a tamer more sensible ride would suffice! Too many cameras too much traffic.
I was wrong my 640d MSport was/is a great car, but in no way can match the thrill of the occasional mental blast of an M car.
The 6 is garaged long live my M5

I've had the same experience.
Traded my E92 M3. Bought an F10 535d - fantastic everyday car. But boring and no match for a proper M.

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by Simon H

Andrew,
How do you rate the M135i, for the fun factor alone ?. I drove an auto model the other day, and really, really enjoyed the car, so much so, i didnt want to take it back to the showroom. Ive actually sold my M5, as i have a lot on, financially, this year, but i still want a fun car to blast around in, and i think the M135I hits the spot for me on all counts, especially price against performance. I know i would use it at every opportunity, in all weathers, and leave it in most places, something i would just not do with the M5. I seemed to put that car on a pedestal, and was so fussy with it, that it seemed to hinder my enjoyment of the car. I feel that coming down the ranks somewhat, would actually benefit someone like myself, and i would get some proper use out of the car. The M135i, really impressed me, especially with its auto box, which was as quick as a DCT, and the exhaust note was very grin inducing, straight out of the box. I know the M3/4 will appear on my radar at some point, but not for a while, so im keen on the M135i, and would value your opinions, thankyou, regards, SIMON.

Hi Simon, sorry to see you go from the M5, but needs must and as you say you could well benefit from a M135i, I extensively test drove one and it was very quick and handled well, the exhaust sound was good for local work but I felt may get intrusive on distance.
The car was just too small for me.
Keep us posted.

[Simon H]

Thanks Andrew, and John for your replies,
I agree on the point of the M135i being a little displeasing in the beauty department, something my dad likes to keep reminding me about, but curiously. im finding it, part of its appeal. Maybe i would give it a good thrashing, just because it is so ugly, it desreves it . I was very sorry to see the M5 go, as it was/is just a fantastic all round car. Im still sticking with BMW though, and think they are still at the top with most of their products. I have a couple of offers of deals on the M135i, but am holding out until the dealers are on their knees. The figures are a little better than the M5s .Regards, SIMON.

[Dionysus]

Originally Posted by johnbmw6

Total insanity , if the biker had made just one wrong move............................................:h elp:

I've only just watched that video; that sort of driving, leaving on margin for error, is strictly for the race track where you don't put innocent members of the public at risk.

[Dionysus]

Originally Posted by Palmnuts

I have also had exactly the same thoughts about the exhaust. It's also aural qualities that can make a car 'feel' fast even when you're not travelling quickly, but, because these big-M's are so refined they never benefit from a 'fast' sound (until you are actually travelling too fast!). Then, to further screw things in my head, I really rate the refinement of the M6 and worry that an aftermarket exhaust would permanently ruin this!

I'm also considering M Perf exhaust for exactly the same reason, yet have exactly the same reservations. I have been told by BMW product support that the M Perf exhaust was developed not to drone, but my worry is that the std CP exhaust is loud enough for 'work' car and I wouldn't want to draw any more attention with the M Perf exhaust. The other issue I have is the BMW GB don't have one fitted to their current demos and don't plan to fit one

[Dionysus]

Originally Posted by Simon H

Thanks Andrew, and John for your replies,
I agree on the point of the M135i being a little displeasing in the beauty department, something my dad likes to keep reminding me about, but curiously. im finding it, part of its appeal. Maybe i would give it a good thrashing, just because it is so ugly, it desreves it . I was very sorry to see the M5 go, as it was/is just a fantastic all round car. Im still sticking with BMW though, and think they are still at the top with most of their products. I have a couple of offers of deals on the M135i, but am holding out until the dealers are on their knees. The figures are a little better than the M5s .Regards, SIMON.

Simon, sorry to hear about the M5, however, I believe the M135i will be a great replacement for all the reasons you state and you're far more likely to extract more performance from of it over the M5 (the whole purpose of this thread). I would agree with John regarding long distance comfort (short wheelbase also reduces comfort), but just think of the better steering feel & that feeling of greater torsional rigidity over the M5, smaller size, greater economy, etc. It's definitely one of the better cars BMW produce right now and I agree with you, it will be easier to use it fully after the M5.

[stealth.pilot]

Great article. I think about this a lot too.

[Simon H]

Originally Posted by Dionysus

Simon, sorry to hear about the M5, however, I believe the M135i will be a great replacement for all the reasons you state and you're far more likely to extract more performance from of it over the M5 (the whole purpose of this thread). I would agree with John regarding long distance comfort (short wheelbase also reduces comfort), but just think of the better steering feel & that feeling of greater torsional rigidity over the M5, smaller size, greater economy, etc. It's definitely one of the better cars BMW produce right now and I agree with you, it will be easier to use it fully after the M5.

Hi Dion.,
Thanks for your input. Obviously the M5 is on another planet altogether, for straight line performance and luxury etc, but the M135i has me very excited after a long test drive, which was in the worst conditions possible, rain, rain, and more rain. It felt like you could really wring its neck, and have some real fun, at lesser speeds. Will pop a few photos up of the car, if and when it arrives, if folks dont mind here ?, regards, SIMON .

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by Simon H

Will pop a few photos up of the car, if and when it arrives, if folks dont mind here ?, regards, SIMON .

I for one will be looking forward to seeing them.

[Palmnuts]

Well if nobody minds, here's some pictured of my 'M-Lite' in the meantime. It's a really good spec with most options (including being one of the few with electric seats). The spec came in just short of £38k and I paid.....£31k Taking full advantage of BMW UK's quest for volume over the last few months!

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by Palmnuts

Well if nobody minds, here's some pictured of my 'M-Lite' in the meantime. It's a really good spec with most options (including being one of the few with electric seats). The spec came in just short of £38k and I paid.....£31k Taking full advantage of BMW UK's quest for volume over the last few months!

Me likes, what sort of "Boot Space" does it have?.
Does the sat-nav screen "Pop up" and what size it please thanks.