Horsepower vs Weight. Which one wins?

[RPiM5]

I posted this here on the General Forum in order to spark debate between two completely different ways to handle the same problem.

The video below is a battle between the BAC Mono (1190lbs and 280hp) and the new McLaren P1 (3300lbs and 903hp). One could argue the same philosophies between M Divisions main heavy hitters, the F80 M3 and the F10 M5, or the F82 M4 and F13 M6. Which one is better, less weight or more horsepower? Or rather is this just a subjective question because everybody is different with different wants and needs?

As the following video shows, in the straights the McLaren P1 takes off like it's engaging warp drive but then when a corner comes up the BAC Mono catches up as if the P1 is standing still.

Maybe the question could be, which is more fun? Massive acceleration or massive corner entry speed?

As we all saw in the video comparison that EVO did when they tested the BMW M4 against the 911 Carrera and the F10 M5 against the GT-R, the F10 M5 was only 0.5 seconds slower around Anglesey than the M4. Would the times have been equal if they instead ran a Comp Pack F13 M6 with CCB's against the M4's time? I personally think the M6 would have been faster than the M4 around the same circuit.

Anyways, I'm just trying to bring relevance to the BMW world in comparison to the video below.

For me personally, if I had to choose between the P1 and the BAC Mono, I'd choose the McLaren P1 even if we are just talking strictly track use. Off the track it's a different story but is also a relevant discussion because the both the P1 and the Mono are legal for street use. For me acceleration is more fun than corner entry speed. Plus the P1 has a much better exhaust note.

What do you all think? Acceleration or Weight? P1 or Mono? M5 or M3? M4 or M6?

Discuss.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-vide...?src=soc_fcbks

[thebishman]

On the track I'd have to go with the car with less weight because the handling is so much better. Have you ever tried to hang with a well driven Exige on track or God forbid an Elise with a S/C cranking out about 300 hp? Plus with less weight comes extra benefits such as less tyre and brake wear/fade which are huge pluses. The sweet spot is a well handling car that weighs about 2750 and has about 300-400 hp, (C5 Z06 set-up for the track anyone?). The best of both worlds.

Now for the street where you will never be able to achieve the cornering entry/exit speeds that you can on track and (almost) never experience brake fade, then I'll take the heavier, more powerful car everyday.

Bish

[mcvaughan]

Man that E30 looks like fun :-D

[RPiM5]

Exhibit B.

2000hp vs 560hp.

A lot of weight vs 4,400lbs.



Which is more fun? Which is more relevant?

[wisesoul]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

I posted this here on the General Forum in order to spark debate between two completely different ways to handle the same problem.

The video below is a battle between the BAC Mono (1190lbs and 280hp) and the new McLaren P1 (3300lbs and 903hp). One could argue the same philosophies between M Divisions main heavy hitters, the F80 M3 and the F10 M5, or the F82 M4 and F13 M6. Which one is better, less weight or more horsepower? Or rather is this just a subjective question because everybody is different with different wants and needs?

As the following video shows, in the straights the McLaren P1 takes off like it's engaging warp drive but then when a corner comes up the BAC Mono catches up as if the P1 is standing still.

Maybe the question could be, which is more fun? Massive acceleration or massive corner entry speed?

As we all saw in the video comparison that EVO did when they tested the BMW M4 against the 911 Carrera and the F10 M5 against the GT-R, the F10 M5 was only 0.5 seconds slower around Anglesey than the M4. Would the times have been equal if they instead ran a Comp Pack F13 M6 with CCB's against the M4's time? I personally think the M6 would have been faster than the M4 around the same circuit.

Anyways, I'm just trying to bring relevance to the BMW world in comparison to the video below.

For me personally, if I had to choose between the P1 and the BAC Mono, I'd choose the McLaren P1 even if we are just talking strictly track use. Off the track it's a different story but is also a relevant discussion because the both the P1 and the Mono are legal for street use. For me acceleration is more fun than corner entry speed. Plus the P1 has a much better exhaust note.

What do you all think? Acceleration or Weight? P1 or Mono? M5 or M3? M4 or M6?

Discuss.

I would choose weight, because there is a relationship (inverse in this case) to acceleration and weight. <weight translates to >acceleration and vice versa. I would rephrase that question "power or weight" .

Weight can only do so much to combat outright power, as seen in the video. But the corner entry speeds in the Mono are insane. I would gladly give up 30 hp in the M5 to lose 300 pounds curb weight. A lot of issues I have with the car dynamically would be solved.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

I posted this here on the General Forum in order to spark debate between two completely different ways to handle the same problem.

The video below is a battle between the BAC Mono (1190lbs and 280hp) and the new McLaren P1 (3300lbs and 903hp). One could argue the same philosophies between M Divisions main heavy hitters, the F80 M3 and the F10 M5, or the F82 M4 and F13 M6. Which one is better, less weight or more horsepower? Or rather is this just a subjective question because everybody is different with different wants and needs?

As the following video shows, in the straights the McLaren P1 takes off like it's engaging warp drive but then when a corner comes up the BAC Mono catches up as if the P1 is standing still.

Maybe the question could be, which is more fun? Massive acceleration or massive corner entry speed?

As we all saw in the video comparison that EVO did when they tested the BMW M4 against the 911 Carrera and the F10 M5 against the GT-R, the F10 M5 was only 0.5 seconds slower around Anglesey than the M4. Would the times have been equal if they instead ran a Comp Pack F13 M6 with CCB's against the M4's time? I personally think the M6 would have been faster than the M4 around the same circuit.

Anyways, I'm just trying to bring relevance to the BMW world in comparison to the video below.

For me personally, if I had to choose between the P1 and the BAC Mono, I'd choose the McLaren P1 even if we are just talking strictly track use. Off the track it's a different story but is also a relevant discussion because the both the P1 and the Mono are legal for street use. For me acceleration is more fun than corner entry speed. Plus the P1 has a much better exhaust note.

What do you all think? Acceleration or Weight? P1 or Mono? M5 or M3? M4 or M6?

Discuss.

I didn't get it!!!
You want to know "why M5/M6 is faster than M3/M4 in straight line" or "why M3/M4 are better in track" or which one has more fun to drive or "what is the relation between weight (or power) and acceleration" ?

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by wisesoul

I would choose weight, because there is a relationship (inverse in this case) to acceleration and weight. <weight translates to >acceleration and vice versa. I would rephrase that question "power or weight" .

Weight can only do so much to combat outright power, as seen in the video. But the corner entry speeds in the Mono are insane. I would gladly give up 30 hp in the M5 to lose 300 pounds curb weight. A lot of issues I have with the car dynamically would be solved.

Yeah you are right. Power to weight.

[Hoopumpers]

I hope the P1 driver had never been to that track before. Terrible lines. Much comes down to driver at the end of the day.

Oh, and you could buy 6 monos for P1 price

[thebishman]

BTW anyone looking to be the 'King' of the track should just buy a Radical SR3. You will blow away any street car and many race cars.
Bish

[PhilT3]

This question comes down to two things:

1. What problem are you trying to solve... or better put, how will the vehicle be used / applied? Is it a daily driver or a track car?

2. What does the driver want? If its a daily driver, does the driver care about luxury or fuel economy? If it's a track car, what kind of track? Will he/she be competing? And MANY more questions.

I did NOT choose an M5 (topic of this forum) solely for it's power...or it's weight (bi-product of amenities). I chose it for the entirety of the package (solution). The M5 (solution) is being applied to my daily driving requirements and desires. If I was choosing something to haul gravel, my choice would be drastically different.

Does this rant make ANY sense??? LOL.

[Hockey Guy]

McLaren P1 all day long. Not even close. Don't care about the application.

[PhilT3]

Originally Posted by Hockey Guy

McLaren P1 all day long. Not even close. Don't care about the application.

Agreed! For the same reason I chose an M5 over an M3. More amenities, more luxury and comfort, more power, etc...

[shahano]

Originally Posted by PhilT3

Agreed! For the same reason I chose an M5 over an M3. More amenities, more luxury and comfort, more power, etc...

I drove a P1 and was really disappointed. I would go with the BAC any day. Maybe try and add another 50 hp to it.

P1:
The car accelerates really linearly, you look at the speedo, and next thing you know you are doing 160 mph. On the other hand, it is really not a nice car to drive. Car has wayy too much understeer on entry to midcorner and then snap oversteer. The sound isnt impressive either. Just not worth 5 times a 458 in my opinion.
Drove a Laferrari as well, and that on the other hand is something else.

[shahano]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Exhibit B.

2000hp vs 560hp.

A lot of weight vs 4,400lbs.



Which is more fun? Which is more relevant?

Wow that truck is scary....

[shahano]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

That is true sir. Would the world accept an M5 that weighed 3x as much as an F80 M3, 10,500lbs with 3x the power, 1,275hp? Or an M3 that weighed 3x less than an M5, 1,466lbs but with 3x less hp, 191hp? Funny comparison, but I still think there are some similarities between comparing an F80 M3 against an F10 M5 or an F82 M4 against an F13 M6. No it's not exactly apples to apples, but it is what we have today as far as BMW's go.

Although the E30 DTM vs the F80 M3 does have merit, we can't exactly go out and buy an E30 DTM whenever we want these days. Whereas I think trying to obtain a BAC Mono might be easier than trying to buy a real E30 DTM. Now modifying an ordinary E30 to DTM specs might be a better option but it's still not quite the same as the real mccoy E30 DTM.

Wow that DTM is a dream come true.

[(H)]

Weight always. But of course it depends on the track configuration. If you take it to Daytona weight means less than when you take it to Monticello. On a course with 23 turns the higher output might be fun for the first three laps but then it just gets frustrating because you reach the cars limits.