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      12-23-2014, 01:51 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf
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Originally Posted by Phatcat View Post
The CTS V is on a new platform? I thought it's still the old platform just updated with more power and some chassis mods.

So it might be older than F10 still.
Yes, on the new CTS platform which was released last year.
This " new platform" looks to be the size of the old DTS platform? Is it me or did the cts move from being an M3/M4 competitor to the M5?

And the ATS Looks to match up more to the m4/m3
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      12-23-2014, 01:59 PM   #68
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Why does it have to be serious u want serious and boring car get the regular cts or any 5 series. The M cars or V cars should look the part no sedated boring styling to make 60 years old happy.


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Originally Posted by vladberca View Post
It's not all about "which is faster" in this class! There is a great Z06 already, this car should be a little more serious not just NFS alike
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      12-23-2014, 02:01 PM   #69
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I'm surprised people haven't complained about the Caddy's slushbox more.
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      12-23-2014, 02:17 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Adem1534 View Post
The interior of the V makes the M5s look like a Toyota.
u serious?)
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      12-23-2014, 02:18 PM   #71
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Better question is why should the 6.2l enine not be stuffed in a caddy when its a grest engine. Much prefer it over the turbo v8 in bimmer for sounds and theatrics. Its more dense and lighter then V8 tt in M5. If u have a good engine why develop another to make bmw fan boys hapy. Also? Bmw stuffs the version if M5 in everything from SUVs to coupes to convertibles.

Some people will be fan boys of Bmw no matter what. I count myself among them but give credit to Caddy where it is due

Quote:
Originally Posted by wdeerfield View Post
so gm's new philosophy is to just cram the 6.2l from the vette into everything. not really original and people could just spend less on a camaro or vette and have a car just as fast. next they are going to release the SS sedan with the same engine and rwd also with an 8 speed and MRC.

i personally think its ugly, angular, and slapped together with carbon bits to make it look "fast". id prefer a more understated version similar to the first gen cts-v

Last edited by Kayani_1; 12-23-2014 at 02:29 PM..
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      12-23-2014, 02:34 PM   #72
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Wow, the numbers on the CTS V are no joke
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      12-23-2014, 02:38 PM   #73
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Numbers seem right but that design is TOO busy and will age very quickly. I feel the same about the ATS-V....too damn busy....
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      12-23-2014, 02:42 PM   #74
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Keep drinking it guys. The CTS-V makes the M5 look likes its from the '90's. Most people know the current M5 has been a failure. Too big, too heavy, too plush, too boring. BMW has been on a downward trend. Time to step it up. Out of the current crop of performance sedans, the M5 falls last. The E63, CLS63, RS7, and now the CTS-V are all ahead of the M5.
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      12-23-2014, 02:45 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason
GM has just revealed the 2016 CTS-V, a clear competitor to the BMW M5. Here's how the two compare on paper and in the styling department.

specs

M5 Engine: 4.4L Twin Turbo V8
CTS-V Engine: 6.2L Supercharged V8 direct-injection

M5 Horsepower/Torque: 560-575 / 500
CTS-V Horsepower/Torque: 640 / 630

M5 0-60 mph: 4.2 seconds
CTS-V 0-60 mph: 3.7 seconds

M5 Transmission: Manual or DCT
CTS-V: 8 Speed auto with paddle shifters

M5 Weight: 4354 pounds
CTS-V Weight: 4145 pounds

It's not always about the numbers on the spec sheet, it's how the car makes you feel. BMW M trumps Cadillac in this department every time.
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      12-23-2014, 02:47 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swanson


Keep drinking it guys. The CTS-V makes the M5 look likes its from the '90's. Most people know the current M5 has been a failure. Too big, too heavy, too plush, too boring. BMW has been on a downward trend. Time to step it up. Out of the current crop of performance sedans, the M5 falls last. The E63, CLS63, RS7, and now the CTS-V are all ahead of the M5.
Have you driven all of the vehicles you listed, to include the M5? Other than the M car obesity epidemic, I quite enjoyed my time in the M5. Hopefully the next-gen car will take advantage of CFRP to lose 500 or so pounds.
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      12-23-2014, 02:49 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdeerfield View Post
so gm's new philosophy is to just cram the 6.2l from the vette into everything. not really original and people could just spend less on a camaro or vette and have a car just as fast. next they are going to release the SS sedan with the same engine and rwd also with an 8 speed and MRC.

i personally think its ugly, angular, and slapped together with carbon bits to make it look "fast". id prefer a more understated version similar to the first gen cts-v
New philosophy? The first gen CTS-V, which competed against the e39 M5, had the C5 Z06 LS6 (and then the LS2) engine in it. And then the second gen CTS-V had a detuned ZR1 engine in it.
So, this formula is 10 yrs old. Nothing new about it.
Original? Let's not start on BMW's use of the 4.4 V8, and M doing its magic on it, for both the X5M/X6M and the M5/M6.
Also, the Camaro and the Corvette are coupes on two different chassis, and I believe the next gen Camaro will be on the same chassis as the ATS. The SS is on a different chassis than the CTS as well.

Also, the car doesn't look slapped together. It looks refined---I can do without the rear spoiler, it looks better without it.

And check the vid that was released. A sound quite different than the F10 M5.

Last edited by IS3andME; 12-23-2014 at 03:10 PM..
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      12-23-2014, 02:57 PM   #78
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One is a symbol of history and tradition that transpires throughout the generations. Emphasising performance with innovation with every generation.

The other is a marketing exercise that emphasises numbers in order to gain a lead especially when there is no where on earth for the driver to exploit the car publically.
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      12-23-2014, 03:00 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayani_1 View Post
Bmw stuffs the version if M5 in everything from SUVs to coupes to convertibles.
... give credit to Caddy where it is due
Quote:
Originally Posted by IS3andME View Post
New philosophy?... Let's not start on BMW's use of the 4.4 V8, and M doing its magic on it, for both the X5M/X6M and the M5/M6.
Also, the car doesn't look slapped together. It looks refined---I can do without the rear spoiler, it looks better without it.
Good points and yea, thinking about it now, it is the same formula used by all manufacturers. the carbon bits to me just look more tacked on than other manufacturers.
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Last edited by wdeerfield; 12-23-2014 at 03:08 PM..
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      12-23-2014, 03:03 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26
One is a symbol of history and tradition that transpires throughout the generations. Emphasising performance with innovation with every generation.

The other is a marketing exercise that emphasises numbers in order to gain a lead especially when there is no where on earth for the driver to exploit the car publically.
I was going to post a long rant, but then Scott26 took the words right out of my mouth.
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      12-23-2014, 03:03 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
This " new platform" looks to be the size of the old DTS platform? Is it me or did the cts move from being an M3/M4 competitor to the M5?

And the ATS Looks to match up more to the m4/m3
The last CTS-V was always a M5 competitor. The Gen 2 CTS-V and E60 M5 were nearly identical in their dimensions.
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      12-23-2014, 03:05 PM   #82
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The F10 does look a bit dated.
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      12-23-2014, 03:08 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
One is a symbol of history and tradition that transpires throughout the generations. Emphasising performance with innovation with every generation.

The other is a marketing exercise that emphasises numbers in order to gain a lead especially when there is no where on earth for the driver to exploit the car publically.
And if the M5 had 640 hp, and the CTS-V had 560-575, you'd be saying the opposite.

Remember, this is no marketing exercise, this is the 3rd gen CTS-V. The second gen CTS-V beat the e60's time on the 'Ring. Caddy is serious. They coming to take names, and customers, and burn rubber while doing it. And you have to admit it, you know you had a smile on your face when you saw the numbers and heard the V8...there is a certain charm...and you like the competition.
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      12-23-2014, 03:10 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacOSR
Congratulations to Caddy on the engine but the car is still too heavy.

I'm expecting the next M5 to be 3800-3900lbs. Maybe it's wishful dreaming but I believe it's possible with the carbon tech coming.
Bingo.
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      12-23-2014, 03:16 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
One is a symbol of history and tradition that transpires throughout the generations. Emphasising performance with innovation with every generation.

The other is a marketing exercise that emphasises numbers in order to gain a lead especially when there is no where on earth for the driver to exploit the car publically.
Have another cup.
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      12-23-2014, 03:19 PM   #86
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They are both remarkable pieces of machinery. All of you that are hating on the cadillac have to admit that dropping a new zo6 motor into a family sedan with much improved chassis and suspension is a huge step for Cadillac to break into another market and be successful at it at the same time. Let's be honest and look at the Green Hell times comparisons and see how close they are. Yes, most of us lean towards BMW because we are loyal fans, but don't discount huge amount of engineering that went into building the new CTS-V. I might try one myself.
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      12-23-2014, 03:21 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
One is a symbol of history and tradition that transpires throughout the generations. Emphasising performance with innovation with every generation.

The other is a marketing exercise that emphasises numbers in order to gain a lead especially when there is no where on earth for the driver to exploit the car publically.
Translation:

- Even though the ATS is consistently acclamed as a better drivers' car than the 3 Series which has morphed into an all-round family car (in order to sweep a broader market share) and more or less sells by usurping the previous generations' fame of sporty feel
- Even through the next M5 will also get a significant power bump, way above the extent to which a regular driver will be able to exploit it on public roads
- Even though this new CTS-V is very probably going to outperform the current M5...

...Well the M5 is still the better car because it has a name and a history, period. While the CTS-V deserves no acclaim to begin with because it is just Caddy, even though it will certainly beat the M5 in the performance department, which after all is not so important on a performance sedan... In fact Caddy deserves no consideration altogether because it's all about volumes and marketing while BMW is not about that at all and just about heritage and tradition...


Last edited by advantage20; 12-23-2014 at 03:34 PM..
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      12-23-2014, 03:35 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IS3andME
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
One is a symbol of history and tradition that transpires throughout the generations. Emphasising performance with innovation with every generation.

The other is a marketing exercise that emphasises numbers in order to gain a lead especially when there is no where on earth for the driver to exploit the car publically.
And if the M5 had 640 hp, and the CTS-V had 560-575, you'd be saying the opposite.

Remember, this is no marketing exercise, this is the 3rd gen CTS-V. The second gen CTS-V beat the e60's time on the 'Ring. Caddy is serious. They coming to take names, and customers, and burn rubber while doing it. And you have to admit it, you know you had a smile on your face when you saw the numbers and heard the V8...there is a certain charm...and you like the competition.
If caddy is serious. When do we see this in Europe. And if they do let's see how many they sell.
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