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      08-20-2013, 09:48 PM   #23
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Here is what my rattle sounds like. It happens both coming off the accelerator under load or in neutral, sometimes rattles down the revs a bit, but also returns right at 1200rpm just before transitioning to idle and then disappearing. In this video, you can hear me trying to bring out the rattle around the 1200rpm range. My iphone is sitting on the ground under the driver side door. What you think?

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      08-20-2013, 09:55 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Hunter5179
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Originally Posted by runningthingz View Post
I hear the same thing on mine after I had the catted AMS downpipes installed. Pretty damn annoying.
Do you hear it like mine at idle? Like this vid just tapping the gas?
No, mine isn't that loud.
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      08-20-2013, 10:18 PM   #25
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Good gosh that sound is horrid.. Reminds me of the rasp from the e46 m3 exhaust.. The fix was a rasp xpipe I wonder if the resonators are doing something odd now that they are sans cats??? But wait rpi guy has full exhaust so that cancels that out :/
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      08-20-2013, 10:54 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Hunter5179 View Post
Do you hear it like mine at idle? Like this vid just tapping the gas?
Yours definitely doesn't sound right. That rattling is really loud. Hope they find a fix.
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      08-21-2013, 10:04 AM   #27
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Hey guys, I'm dropping my car off at AMS today so we can speed this process up. They will keep it for 1-2 weeks and take it apart to try and locate and remedy the issues we are experiencing. Stay tuned. It might not take that long so I'll post up the results as soon as I know.
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      08-21-2013, 10:12 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter5179
Hey guys, I'm dropping my car off at AMS today so we can speed this process up. They will keep it for 1-2 weeks and take it apart to try and locate and remedy the issues we are experiencing. Stay tuned. It might not take that long so I'll post up the results as soon as I know.
Thank you!!!
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      08-21-2013, 10:55 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by F12M6MD View Post
Here is what my rattle sounds like. It happens both coming off the accelerator under load or in neutral, sometimes rattles down the revs a bit, but also returns right at 1200rpm just before transitioning to idle and then disappearing. In this video, you can hear me trying to bring out the rattle around the 1200rpm range. My iphone is sitting on the ground under the driver side door. What you think?

I completed the install on my set with MRF Engineering yesterday.

After witnessing the entire installation, I think I know why your set is rattling. There's a gasket that likely isn't installed (or installed properly) that stops vibrations.

I'll post detail with my review (with photos of the gasket) and install.
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      08-21-2013, 10:57 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter5179 View Post
Hey guys, I'm dropping my car off at AMS today so we can speed this process up. They will keep it for 1-2 weeks and take it apart to try and locate and remedy the issues we are experiencing. Stay tuned. It might not take that long so I'll post up the results as soon as I know.
Sounds like something completely unrelated to the downpipes. Especially if you say that the wastegates were set by AMS to the full closed position and you still heard something.

Yes, wooshing, rattling, clicking, and tapping would all be good words to describe the 100% normal wastegate flutter that the DME's do when you let off of the gas pedal. Like I said, I switch my Throttle Response button to Sport and I never hear if I don't want to. When my wastegates are closed there is no other unusual sound coming from my car.

I think you may have people freaking out over an obscure problem related only to your particular car. Good luck though.
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      08-21-2013, 11:10 AM   #31
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Here is what luigimaster had posted in another thread after installing his catless DP's

Here is a Vid of luigimaster's car



And here is what luigimaster wrote about it.



"I've been experiencing a couple things on my M6 paired with full Meisterschaft GTC exhaust and AMS Catless downpipes.*

I have a rattle very similar to Hunters which started the day I got the catless downpipes installed. When I had the Meisterschaft alone with stock DPs there was no issues. My rattle is very similar to Hunters but not as pronounced as his rattle, mine sounds like a loose coin inside the exhaust when decelerating .

However, I do have a horrible sound that resembles a old beater Honda Civic with exhaust issues. This horrible sound only occurs at low revs between 1500- 2500 RPM and especially while under load or going uphill (see video below)*

Initially I took this issue to Meisterschaft and they immediately shipped me a brand new full system replacement. I arranged and had it installed the same day I received the new unit hoping the noise and rattle would be gone. Unfortunately, the noises were still there after the install.*

The next step was to take it back to the shop that installed the AMS downpipes. They took a look and said the wastegates were causing the rattle. I immediately took the car to my local BMW dealer, they verified the concern and replaced both sets of turbos within a few days. When I picked up the car I was full of hope and expecting the issues to be resolved, unfortunately, the rattle was still there and the horrible noise was still there.*

At this point I decided to remove the front and mid Meister sections and install the stock front and mid section to at least make the car drivable, I did leave the Meister rear cans in place though. The noise was 75-80% muffled but I could still hear it. In other words the root of the problem was still there but most of the sound was been hidden by the stock resonator.*

Today, I went to EAS and had them remove the downpipes and reinstall them to see if an installation error was the issue. Sadly, the horrible noise and rattle was still there after all was said and done.*

Don't get me wrong, I love the beastly sound of the Meistershaft and the catless downpipes when it is NOT making that embarrassing noise and thats precisley why I am fighting to get this issue taken care of, but I will remove the downpipes if that turns out to be the root of the problem.*

I am still trying to figure this out guys and will keep you posted with the outcome. I just wanted to share my experience so far in case it would help anyone thats looking into getting the wastegates replaced.*

I've attached the BMW dealer work order from when they replaced the turbos if anyone cares to see it as well."
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      08-21-2013, 11:25 AM   #32
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Hunter.. you beat me to the punch

Attached is the BMW dealer work order mentioned above if anyone cares to look at it.
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File Type: pdf M6 Bmw Turbo replacement-1.pdf (2.43 MB, 972 views)
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      08-21-2013, 11:43 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F12M6MD View Post
Here is what my rattle sounds like. It happens both coming off the accelerator under load or in neutral, sometimes rattles down the revs a bit, but also returns right at 1200rpm just before transitioning to idle and then disappearing. In this video, you can hear me trying to bring out the rattle around the 1200rpm range. My iphone is sitting on the ground under the driver side door. What you think?

After listening to this video I think I know what may be causing the rattling.

I got a similar rattling before on my M5 but it had nothing to do with the downpipes. The rattling could be coming from the exhaust pipe itself coming into contact with the rear stiffening plate. It would be coming into contact with it just behind the axle.

Look here on this page at the rear stiffening plate and at the picture.

http://m5carblog.blogspot.com/2013/02/suspension.html


The downpipes may be amplifying the rattling if the exhaust is coming in contact with the rear stiffening plate. When I initially had my RPi Exhaust installed, the shop I used installed it wrong and this is what was happening. I was getting rattling all the time. Very annoying. Bascially the exhaust was installed too far back and that what was causing the rattling for me. I had the exhaust installed properly and it didn't touch anymore.

In the picture below, check to see if the exhaust is coming in contact with the rear stiffening plate at either of the two points where the red circles are, just under the rear anti-roll bar.

This is just based off of my personal experience. It could also be a missing gasket on the downpipes, but when I installed my catless downpipes, I didn't remember any gasket that needed to be installed. The bottom part of the downpipes are sleeved and they just slide right into the top of the section 1 of the exhaust.
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      08-21-2013, 11:46 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
After listening to this video I think I know what may be causing the rattling.

I got a similar rattling before on my M5 but it had nothing to do with the downpipes. The rattling could be coming from the exhaust pipe itself coming into contact with the rear stiffening plate. It would be coming into contact with it just behind the axle.

Look here on this page at the rear stiffening plate and at the picture.

http://m5carblog.blogspot.com/2013/02/suspension.html


The downpipes may be amplifying the rattling if the exhaust is coming in contact with the rear stiffening plate. When I initially had my RPi Exhaust installed, the shop I used installed it wrong and this is what was happening. I was getting rattling all the time. Very annoying. Bascially the exhaust was installed too far back and that what was causing the rattling for me. I had the exhaust installed properly and it didn't touch anymore.

In the picture below, check to see if the exhaust is coming in contact with the rear stiffening plate at either of the two points where the red circles are, just under the rear anti-roll bar.

This is just based off of my personal experience. It could also be a missing gasket on the downpipes, but when I installed my catless downpipes, I didn't remember any gasket that needed to be installed. The bottom part of the downpipes are sleeved and they just slide right into the top of the section 1 of the exhaust.
Luigimaster, I think this may your culprit also. Just a good guess though.
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      08-21-2013, 12:45 PM   #35
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Thanks rpi,

I'll look in to that. I may have my shop just remove exhaust turbo back and do a fresh install. The sound I hear does seem to be coming from nearby the turbos and not undercarriage or rear. We'll see. I'm not aware of a gasket either.

Mark
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      08-21-2013, 02:45 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F12M6MD View Post
Here is what my rattle sounds like. It happens both coming off the accelerator under load or in neutral, sometimes rattles down the revs a bit, but also returns right at 1200rpm just before transitioning to idle and then disappearing. In this video, you can hear me trying to bring out the rattle around the 1200rpm range. My iphone is sitting on the ground under the driver side door. What you think?

Mine sounds like that too and if I hold the pedal down at around the same rpm I can duplicate what you hear and hold it. The vid I posted of mine sounds really loud because I parked it next to a wall so it echoes and amplifies the sound. It's still loud but not as loud. Regardless we should have an answer soon.
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      08-21-2013, 02:56 PM   #37
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The downpipes are not a 100% perfect fit, and by no means are "easy to install".

AMS the fabricator and designer should provide a PDF install tutorial along with the pipes to ensure their customers will experience the full benefits of this system without sacrifice.

I am not surprised techs are having a difficult time with the install.

I took my car to Malek@MRF Engineering here in Southern California. He charges more than most for the install but he's very thorough. I don't have time to go back twice.

Nothing was scratched, dinged or dented. He got it right the first time. Here's a photo of the hanger, and gasket fitment.

Once the stock downpipes are removed, the gasket will not come up with it. Remove the gasket and place them on the AMS downpipes before you place the downpipes in the car.

People who are experiencing an abnormal rattling noise likely have the gasket installed incorrectly.

The gasket is not to seal from leaks but function as a vibration suppressor. Suppressing the vibration caused from the downpipes vibrating and clanking on the hanger.


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      08-21-2013, 03:01 PM   #38
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Luigi,

More on the lines of your rice rocket sounds. I call it like a trumpeting sound. Here is a mostly cold start with my GTC valves closed. Listen at the end for the trumpet. I think I can recreate this under load in the 1500-2500 range.

Mark

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      08-21-2013, 03:10 PM   #39
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Thanks for the info Alpha. Hopefully that's just it. I did have mine installed by a BMW tech who does all the Dinan performance installs so we'll see what AMS says. I agree that they should have an install tutorial because even with proper install this could happen if indeed it's the gasket.
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      08-22-2013, 10:08 AM   #40
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As a bit of an update- it appears that the round gasket between the downpipe and exhaust may be contributing to the rattle, either because it's shifting during many installations, or because once it's crushed during install it does not fully isolate from vibration.

We'll have more information shortly, but it's possible that the fix for the rattle on Hunter's car is very simple.
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      08-22-2013, 10:22 AM   #41
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Ok guys just heard back from AMS. They made my noise go away..So AMS believes they solved it but will know for sure tomorrow. It's the stock donut gasket. AMS said that people shouldn't be reusing them so they will include better or new gaskets in their downpipe kits when they ship them out along with instructions on using the new gasket instead of the old. they made my noise go away so they believe they solved it. I will have exact confirmation tomorrow when they install the gasket.. thanks for being patient and sorry we all had to go through some trouble because of this. Some more than others. Will post back tomorrow.
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      08-22-2013, 11:54 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Hunter5179 View Post
Ok guys just heard back from AMS. They made my noise go away..So AMS believes they solved it but will know for sure tomorrow. It's the stock gasket. AMS said that people shouldn't be reusing them so they will include better or new gaskets in their downpipe kits when they ship them out along with instructions on using the new gasket instead of the old. they made my noise go away so they believe they solved it. I will have exact confirmation tomorrow when they install the gasket.. thanks for being patient and sorry we all had to go through some trouble because of this. Some more than others. Will post back tomorrow.
Well praise be to God. New gaskets and an instruction manual is the least I'd expect from an overpriced downpipe. I'm going to be the first and only one, to tell you.. I told you so!
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      08-22-2013, 12:12 PM   #43
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Quote:
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Well praise be to God. New gaskets and an instruction manual is the least I'd expect from an overpriced downpipe. I'm going to be the first and only one, to tell you.. I told you so!
Alpine to be clear what you stated earlier is not the issue. The issue we are seeing is with the donut gasket but not as you have it shown. The picture you have shown has your gasket installed incorrectly. Your tech installed the gasket on the pipe before installing the pipe in the car. This caused that metal isolator gasket to float around and rattle. The donut gasket should go on after the install on the back side of the pipe just like from the factory so as to secure it in the downpipe carrier brace. We install the donut gasket the same as the factory. This is why we did not have an instruction sheet for this pieces as it installs the same as the stock downpipe does. Regardless we will get some instructions made up here in the very near future.

What we are seeing on this car is that even with the donut gasket installed correctly there is a rattle. This is stemming from the fact that on some cars as they are assembled from the factory the donut gasket is crushed in a way that when you attempt to reinstall it the donut no longer sits flush against that metal vibration isolator gasket. This also causes that metal gasket to then rattle around.

So the same item is causing the noise in both cars but the reasons are a little different. Yours stems from an improper install while Hunter's stems from a bad donut gasket. We have new gaskets on order that we are installing in Hunter's car that we feel should fix the issue. If it does we are going to include new donut gaskets with the purchase of every downpipe set.

Sorry for the long post, I just wanted everyone to be clear on what we have found so far.

Eric

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      08-22-2013, 12:47 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMS ALPHA View Post
So the same item is causing the noise in both cars but the reasons are a little different. Yours stems from an improper install while Hunter's stems from a bad donut gasket. We have new gaskets on order that we are installing in Hunter's car that we feel should fix the issue. If it does we are going to include new donut gaskets with the purchase of every downpipe set. Eric
Thanks for the detailed explanation of the problem, and the likely solution. I haven't yet bought your downpipes from IND, and have a couple of questions. Since the CEL at this point is assured in the catless DP without a tune available, could we just plug the oxygen sensor holes in the downpipe and remove the sensor wire leads from the main wiring harness? With the catalyst removed from the downpipe, wouldn't the downpipe run much cooler than stock? If that's the case, the ceramic coating wouldn't make as much difference as when used with your catted downpipes? Since you guys are the builders of these pieces I appreciate your jumping in to clarify some of the problems that come up in with their application in the field.

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