Action Footage from Pocono Raceway track days

[(H)]

Dear All,

After two days of kicking the crap out of my baby at Pocono Raceway, I can confirm the obvious. The F10 M5 is not a track car ;-) But it's a blast nonetheless. I have Terabytes of footage, will try to edit some into this post later. For today, just a first quick clip. Summary:

1) It proves again that the F10 M5 is an extremely capable and powerful car. On both days (specially Monday), we had a group of very experienced drivers with either high powered street cars or track prepped cars and straight race cars. With few obvious exceptions, the F10 M5 was a worthy contender.

2) I specifically wanted to check the performance this time on stock configuration. I had no tune, took out the spacers, the air scoops, didn't change anything (brand new Miche's PSS, stock break pads and break fluid etc.). The result is rather devastating: Disks warped, tires gone, break fluid boiling on fast track configurations.

The video below was later on the second day on a slower rather technical infield configuration, I will share the faster configurations later. My disks were already in bad shape so breaking was definitely limited. And as you can tell, the Michelins are yeast dough.

Before I pit out, I am fake laughing because I just did a couple of runs in a 2100lb race prepped Cayman R. So this felt like going back on the track with a school bus.

First 1.5 laps are warm up (that's why I am checking tire temp and pressure reading) then I go hot. In the end I wanted to cool it down (after 6:20 where I shake my had in frustration of the breaks). Just as I wanted to pit in, I saw a Shelby entering the track and get back on to speed for another two rounds. This eagerness almost bites me at 09:00 (for those who want to skip right to the action ;-)

I always have to think of a good golf swing: The harder you try the worse your swing usually gets. Same applies to the track. Smooth and easy is fast. Push it, and you will lose time or fly off into misery altogether.

Enjoy (please make sure to switch to HD):

[RPiM5]

Great video man. I could almost feel all of the weight you were fighting in the video. I feel you man, I feel you.

[shahano]

great lines and nice save.... Looked like alot of fun... I have upgraded Brake fluid which I highly recommend for your next track day... Will really help with the fade.
I assume that was full traction off??

[(H)]

Originally Posted by shahano

great lines and nice save.... Looked like alot of fun... I have upgraded Brake fluid which I highly recommend for your next track day... Will really help with the fade.
I assume that was full traction off??

Thank you. This run was with MDM, I will share some wilder stunts with DSC completely off as well (definitely not recommended without proper track tires ;-)
As for the brake fluid, totally agreed, but I really wanted to see how the car would perform with bone stock configuration.

Next time, to compare, I plan on

a) Spacers back in
b) Dinan Sway-Bars
c) BMS Stage 1
d) Track Tires (any suggestions, Sport Cup doesn't seem to be available)
e) Hawk HP Plus pads
f) 600 fluid
g) adjusted camber angle

Thoughts?

H.

[(H)]

A couple of pix that speak volumes

Yes, I had gotten these only two weeks ago and yes, I adjusted pressure for the track.

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by (H)

Thank you. This run was with MDM, I will share some wilder stunts with DSC completely off as well (definitely not recommended without proper track tires ;-)
As for the brake fluid, totally agreed, but I really wanted to see how the car would perform with bone stock configuration.

Next time, to compare, I plan on

a) Spacers back in
b) Dinan Sway-Bars
c) BMS Stage 1
d) Track Tires (any suggestions, Sport Cup doesn't seem to be available)
e) Hawk HP Plus pads
f) 600 fluid
g) adjusted camber angle

Thoughts?

H.

Good List. As far as tires go, you are really not going to be able to find anything in a 20" size for better grip with the 343M wheels. You will have to go with 19" tires and the best wheel setup believe it or not for the F10 M5 are the stock 19" 345M wheels. Then the problem is finding a wider 19" tire that will fit the 345M's. R888's, Hankook RS3's, and Dunlops are good places to start. Also, I recommend ATE Super Blue Racing Brake Fluid for your hydraulic fluid. I never had brake fade with that stuff in both of my M5's that I have owned. I recommend the Amber ATE Super Blue and make sure you have 2 bottles on hand just in case the tech spills a little or something. You don't want any air in the brakelines, which I have had before. The Dinan Negative Upper Control Arms are the only option if you want to increase negative camber. If you are running stock springs, then the Dinan Control Arms will work great for you, but if you are running any kind of lowering springs better check and make sure your camber isn't already more negative than the stock setting. I am currently going through this right now. The stock brake pads should be good enough for track day or two. But if you want an edge then consider more aggressive pads, but keep in mind that they will generate more brake dust.

What I've found is that the stock Michelin Super Sports on the 20" 343M wheels work out just fine if you are only intending to track the M5 once in a while. But if one is serious about tracking a heavy car like the M5 more than once in a while, I would say to just go with a lighter wheel setup with wider tires. The Dinan 20" wheels are an excellent choice as are the BBS's. With the Dinan Wheels, you drop about 2.2lbs per wheel off from the 343M's and you can go with 285mm up front and 305mm in the rear no problem. For even better performance, but super costly, just go ahead and buy the Carbon Ceramic Brake Retrofit kit from BMW. You'll be dropping about 46lbs of unsprung weight total and will simply never need to worry about stopping power or brake fade ever again. The CCB's will be there for you every single time you brake hard. In my opinion that's what the CCB's are for, for the track, while others argue that they wear too fast to be feasible, but the fact is that the BMW CCB's of today are not the Porsche CCB's from back in the 1990's, the BMW CCB's last a super long time even if tracking a lot.

Anyways, this was my plan with my M5 for one day when I can afford them, as I hoped to be able to track the M5 more in the future. Like I've said for a long time and you know, the F10 M5 is a track capable car but is not a track car. No generation M5 has ever really been a track car, but they still always put down respectable times on the racetrack even in stock form.

[(H)]

Thanks so much @RPiM5, great input. I am really torn because most of my track time (not really all that often) is in other cars, track rentals, ///M school etc. I probably won't take mine more than 2-3 times a year, wish I had more time.

So for now, I think I will just go with the sway bars as they will help me also for spirited daily driving. I will try to have BMW replace the US spec upper control arms with German spec upper control arms which have a better camber angle attached.

I'm already on the 345M wheels as you might recall. Another thought: What's the deal with the 265 in front 295 in the back. I will see if the 295s from the back would also fit on the front. Would be a lot better than some stupid spacers ;-)

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by (H)

Thanks so much @RPiM5, great input. I am really torn because most of my track time (not really all that often) is in other cars, track rentals, ///M school etc. I probably won't take mine more than 2-3 times a year, wish I had more time.

So for now, I think I will just go with the sway bars as they will help me also for spirited daily driving. I will try to have BMW replace the US spec upper control arms with German spec upper control arms which have a better camber angle attached.

I'm already on the 345M wheels as you might recall. Another thought: What's the deal with the 265 in front 295 in the back. I will see if the 295s from the back would also fit on the front. Would be a lot better than some stupid spacers ;-)

Yeah I'm having mine replaced by German Spec Upper Control Arms from BMW. Unfortunately I have to get positive camber control arms. I'll be starting a new thread about it later after I have them installed.

[(H)]

At the end of the first Day, we re-configured for one run to the Tricky Triangle Nascar track of Pocono Raceway. That's where the M5 can truly shine. Unfortunately no good footage there because I had a fellow in front of me for most of the time that seemed to be unfamiliar with the concept of point-by. Until he pitted in and then this happened:

Looks so harmless in the video but when it happens right in front of you at 170 mph, it is a tad scary ;-)

[(H)]

Here is another clip on the 3.5 mile combination course of triangle and infield. Awesome track with both speed and quite technical sections.

Felt really bad about the GT500 flying off the course. He was obviously struggling for a while, don't know if he had issues because he was a really experienced driver afaic and I don't think I pushed him too hard.

[gmfive]

Originally Posted by (H)

Thanks so much @RPiM5, great input. I am really torn because most of my track time (not really all that often) is in other cars, track rentals, ///M school etc. I probably won't take mine more than 2-3 times a year, wish I had more time.

So for now, I think I will just go with the sway bars as they will help me also for spirited daily driving. I will try to have BMW replace the US spec upper control arms with German spec upper control arms which have a better camber angle attached.

I'm already on the 345M wheels as you might recall. Another thought: What's the deal with the 265 in front 295 in the back. I will see if the 295s from the back would also fit on the front. Would be a lot better than some stupid spacers ;-)

I have wondered about the same but would need someone with deep technical chops to explain why they setup stock with a 265/295 staggered tire setup? Yrs ago, my cousin, an engineer specializing in suspension/brakes at Ford motor, had explained me something about underbody/frame geometry and weight distribution but all that is hazy now. Even other similar high perf cars but with AWD, run staggered setups, so, it might not really all be power delivery to 2 vs 4 wheels.

[shahano]

[QUOTE=(H);16532171]A couple of pix that speak volumes

[CENTER]
Attachment 1082020
Yes, I had gotten these only two weeks ago and yes, I adjusted pressure for the track.

Woaw, I am surprised by the condition of the tires. Did you adjust the tire pressure for the track as well?

[shahano]

I dream of the carbon retrofit package. But its just not worth spending the 20K

[Used2be]

Originally Posted by (H)

Before I pit out, I am fake laughing because I just did a couple of runs in a 2100lb race prepped Cayman R. So this felt like going back on the track with a school bus.

Great videos! You were guiding the "school bus" around the track just fine! Isn't it fun to be able to pass true sport cars in your four door sedan? I know you like the 19" rims, as I did, but when I switched to 20" with 35 and 30 ratio sidewalls front and rear, the more planted feel on turn in was evident. And this was after switching to the CP sway bars which did help with the 19s also. If you do want track tires though, I believe you'll have to stay with the 19s, although they will have a lower sidewall than the stock 19s. Hoosier makes a slick in 265 and 295 widths, obviously not to be used on the street.

[shahano]

Are the CP sway bars very different to the stock sway bars?

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by shahano

Are the CP sway bars very different to the stock sway bars?

Yes!

[chong0]

great videos, thanks for posting.

was that a civic that created all that smoke?

I feel for you, H. wrecked my rotors as well with one track event. hope you find a workable solution for the future.

[(H)]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Yes!

How about the CP sway bars in comparison to the Dinan sway bars? I have those coming my way now for an installation on Tuesday next week. #itneverends

o

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by (H)

How about the CP sway bars in comparison to the Dinan sway bars? I have those coming my way now for an installation on Tuesday next week. #itneverends

o

The Dinan Swaybars are much stiffer, but luckily they are adjustable. I think Stealth.Pilot has the Dinan Sways on his M5.

[(H)]

One more clip showing the brake eating configuration. The sharp left turn out from the straightaway with full as late as possible 10/10 brake killed it. Towards the end of the clip you can actually hear the warped rotors ;-(

[(H)]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

The Dinan Swaybars are much stiffer, but luckily they are adjustable. I think Stealth.Pilot has the Dinan Sways on his M5.

Thanks, Dave, @Stealth.Pilot how did you end up setting your Dinan Sway Bars?

[Used2be]

Originally Posted by (H)

Thanks, Dave, @Stealth.Pilot how did you end up setting your Dinan Sway Bars?

I don't think you can go wrong with the Dinan sway bars, but I'd love to have one of our members give a subjective comparison of the CP BMW bar versus the Dinan bar by driving each on the same course, one after the other. I see now that Dinan is asking $998 for the set, almost double the cost of BMW CP bars. Dinan doesn't compare theirs to the CP bar, but to the stock bar, so those % numbers aren't quite right, although the weight difference is undeniable. If two members with identical suspension, but one with Dinan and the other with the CP bars are able to make this happen it might be very informative.