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      01-29-2013, 07:33 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
This is true. I've been meaning to get a vBox to use with Launch Control. This M5 can definitely do sub 4.0 second 0-60 all day long. The Active ///M Differential is built to get great 0-60 times and 1/4 mile times. I've heard of one F13 ///M6 Coupe doing a 0-60 time of only 3.5 seconds. Almost not a day goes by that I don't mash my throttle with DSC off in the F10, there's no way I'd want AWD to take away that type of fun!
Well agreed, what exactly would a Vbox do for launch control? Same here.
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      01-29-2013, 08:00 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Boca View Post
I love my M5 but I plan on selling it as soon as the E63 and RS7 arrive and purchase one of the two. For anyone who believes the M5 will remain competitive in the marketplace without AWD is just kidding themselves.
EXACTLY my point, why is BMW not giving us the choice of an AWD M5? Why would they lose loyal customers(like me and you) to their competitors just because they are not offering it? Just doesn't make any sense to me. And I can bet you anything you want when/if an AWD M5 comes out, 90% (if not 100%) of sales will be of the AWD model (why would someone want to buy a slower M5)?. It's such a no brainer. And the guys that want to have a "true ///M" where you can slide the backend at every turn, they will still have the option to buy a RWD M5 and then they can see the back of my head every time they race me.
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      01-29-2013, 08:02 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GamataF10M5 View Post
EXACTLY my point, why is BMW not giving us the choice of an AWD M5? Why would they lose loyal customers(like me and you) to their competitors just because they are not offering it? Just doesn't make any sense to me. And I can bet you anything you want when/if an AWD M5 comes out, 90% (if not 100%) of sales will be of the AWD model (why would someone want to buy a slower M5)?. It's such a no brainer. And the guys that want to have a "true ///M" where you can slide the backend at every turn, they will still have the option to buy a RWD M5 and then they can see the back of my head every time they race me.
The reason is because the M Division was the last bastion of purism within BMW. However they will soon sell out and you will get your AWD.
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      01-29-2013, 08:08 PM   #26
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I'm confused now, if so many true M5 owners wanted all wheel drive why in the heck did you buy the car? Clearly I see the M owners that are highly satisfied with their cars took delivery in Munich last September for the most part. Many of us had free reign on what we wanted to buy, and we are happy. Too many non owners are trying to talk the owners in the shadow why not get this? Easy answer we love what we have for a reason, and the only Audi I would drive is a R8 because it does not have a twin dressed as a VW bottom line!

Sorry had to vent M owners enjoy your car, and all other sedans are compared to the M5 bottom line! By the way in NY and ATL and have no desire to drive in the snow and ice really fun cleaning off salt and crap off my 100k rig(: case closed!
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      01-29-2013, 08:17 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
..... because I simply don't believe the times posted by Car&Driver for the S6 or the S8.
Seriously dude??

When the AWD M5 comes out we'll talk again.
I just hope BMW does it sooner than later. Then the M5 will truly be "untouchable".

In the meantime I hope you don't meet an S6 (not RS6) or S8 on the road and if you do, please do give us a description of the back of the driver's head!
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      01-29-2013, 08:44 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Bimmer6 View Post
I'm confused now, if so many true M5 owners wanted all wheel drive why in the heck did you buy the car? Clearly I see the M owners that are highly satisfied with their cars took delivery in Munich last September for the most part. Many of us had free reign on what we wanted to buy, and we are happy. Too many non owners are trying to talk the owners in the shadow why not get this? Easy answer we love what we have for a reason, and the only Audi I would drive is a R8 because it does not have a twin dressed as a VW bottom line!

Sorry had to vent M owners enjoy your car, and all other sedans are compared to the M5 bottom line! By the way in NY and ATL and have no desire to drive in the snow and ice really fun cleaning off salt and crap off my 100k rig(: case closed!
I love my M5, that's not the point I'm trying to make.
There's no bigger fan of the M5 than me but what I'm saying is that if this trend continues where all AWD cars are as fast or faster than my M5, what's the point of the M5?
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the M5 about being the fastest sedan? If so then what's the point if everything else on the road is faster?
Anyways, this just bugs the shit out of me but maybe it's just me, no worries. I just wanted to see what everyone else was thinking...
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      01-29-2013, 08:58 PM   #29
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I hear you, but just know something will alway be faster. The new Camero will blow the doors off a lot of cars. I just see it as the whole package, and don't chase horse power as you will always lose. I hear you being frustrated but really do you think everything is faster than your car? Dude you have a kick ass car enjoy.
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      01-29-2013, 09:44 PM   #30
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Rather than awd this is what I want from BMW...NA engines, WEIGHT REDUCTION WEIGHT REDUCTION WEIGHT REDUCTION. If an XJ Jag can weigh ~3900 then maybe an M5 can weigh around 3300-3500.
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      01-29-2013, 09:49 PM   #31
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The new m5 will have a v10 bi turbo and weight reduction.
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      01-29-2013, 10:07 PM   #32
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simple! because they already took your money.. The honeybadger don't care..





Quote:
Originally Posted by GamataF10M5 View Post
EXACTLY my point, why is BMW not giving us the choice of an AWD M5? Why would they lose loyal customers(like me and you) to their competitors just because they are not offering it? Just doesn't make any sense to me. And I can bet you anything you want when/if an AWD M5 comes out, 90% (if not 100%) of sales will be of the AWD model (why would someone want to buy a slower M5)?. It's such a no brainer. And the guys that want to have a "true ///M" where you can slide the backend at every turn, they will still have the option to buy a RWD M5 and then they can see the back of my head every time they race me.
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      01-29-2013, 10:44 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjcompto View Post
Rather than awd this is what I want from BMW...NA engines, WEIGHT REDUCTION WEIGHT REDUCTION WEIGHT REDUCTION. If an XJ Jag can weigh ~3900 then maybe an M5 can weigh around 3300-3500.
With regard to weight, that is not is not even a remote possibility. In fact, it is virtually impossible.
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      01-29-2013, 11:23 PM   #34
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Since when are 0-60 and 1/4 times so important in 4000lbs+ family sedans? Can you even feel the difference betweean a 4.2sec 0-60 and a 4sec one?? How often do you do these standing starts where those 0.2sec matter so much?

And if another car (which you apparently don't like enough to buy) is 0.2sec faster 0-60, that changes your M5 to slow and not diserable? I don't get it.. The old RS6 was AWD, could easily be tuned to 7-800hp but no one cried about that a few years ago.. why?

And the only reason people seem to want AWD M5's is for the standing starts... They don't care that it'll make the car much heavier (a BIG complaint already for the F10), have worse steering feel and take away it's handling charactaristics.. just make it 0.2sec faster in the 1/4 and we'll love it again!!...

I honestly believe that if the S6,RS6,E63 etc were 0.2sec slower 0-60, but more reliable, a little cheaper, more comfortable, better eqipped, lighter and got better fuel milage than the M5, every owner would praise the M5 as the untouchable King of supersedans!

Sorry if I'm stepping on toes here, but I have to rant like this every now and then when I see these kind of threads.
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      01-30-2013, 12:10 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GamataF10M5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boca View Post
I love my M5 but I plan on selling it as soon as the E63 and RS7 arrive and purchase one of the two. For anyone who believes the M5 will remain competitive in the marketplace without AWD is just kidding themselves.
EXACTLY my point, why is BMW not giving us the choice of an AWD M5? Why would they lose loyal customers(like me and you) to their competitors just because they are not offering it? Just doesn't make any sense to me. And I can bet you anything you want when/if an AWD M5 comes out, 90% (if not 100%) of sales will be of the AWD model (why would someone want to buy a slower M5)?. It's such a no brainer. And the guys that want to have a "true ///M" where you can slide the backend at every turn, they will still have the option to buy a RWD M5 and then they can see the back of my head every time they race me.
"why would anyone buy a slower M5?"

A lot of people apparently did.

The reason why all those reviews out there timed a 4 seconds+ 0-60 time is because they are all testing manual with no launch control.
The auto DCT M5 is half a seconds faster to 60.

Speed isn't everything.

Both Mercedes and Audi have faster cars than the M3. Does that stop it from being one the best car of the decade? Of course not!
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      01-30-2013, 06:50 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GamataF10M5 View Post
In the meantime I hope you don't meet an S6 (not RS6) or S8 on the road and if you do, please do give us a description of the back of the driver's head!
happend to me on the german highway, an all i can say, the mighty s8 didnt have a chance at any speeds. 100-300kmh unrestriced highway.
the m5 just pulls a way

by the way the s8 tuned by abt to 640 hp was messured with 0-200kmh in 13 secs and 0-100kmh in 4 secs.
Maybe factory press car s8 was well over powered..

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/n...8-5651818.html
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      01-30-2013, 05:00 PM   #37
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Yes AWD can get from 0-60 a bit faster, but its dull.. Its no fun.

I had a Panamera 4S.... the M5 is light years ahead in terms of fun and engagement.
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      01-31-2013, 05:49 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ayu910 View Post
M5 should be fairly competitive, the new full time AWD E63 will only see the tail light of F10 M5 from 60mph+ acceleration. Those full time AWD system is completely waste of hp/energy once get up to speed.
Agreed, but the point here is most driving occurs under 80mph. Also, with this much torque on hand, AWD gives you a huge safety net when driving aggressively. If Porsche can build an AWD Panamera and give it better steering feel and responsiveness than a RWD M5, than there s no reason BMW can't do this. I do love the M5, but for the current car that it is, AWD would be a huge plus. Of course, to do it right, the car needs to designed from the ground up with AWD as part of the design.
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      01-31-2013, 09:32 PM   #39
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If you prize acceleration numbers above balance and engagement, you deserve to drive an Audi.
Do it!
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      02-01-2013, 01:29 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarThaL View Post
Agreed, but the point here is most driving occurs under 80mph. Also, with this much torque on hand, AWD gives you a huge safety net when driving aggressively. If Porsche can build an AWD Panamera and give it better steering feel and responsiveness than a RWD M5, than there s no reason BMW can't do this. I do love the M5, but for the current car that it is, AWD would be a huge plus. Of course, to do it right, the car needs to designed from the ground up with AWD as part of the design.
Not a apple to apple comparison and nothing comes free. Getting the right active AWD system in a front engine setup with light weight material can be very very costly. Panamera Turbo S start at $175K+ and that refelct just that and another example will be the Ferrari FF at $350K+!
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      02-01-2013, 04:42 AM   #41
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I agree with GamataF10M5's complaint.

M5 is 90% of the time driven in the city, where your work, university, family, shops and night clubs (otherwise it was wiser to buy a house near your frequent destination instead of M5). Even those people who drive through highways have to go through a city, one way or another.

This means 90% of the time M5 is driven at speeds from 0-100 km/h, thus losing almost any drag race in a spirited driving or city drags M5 loses to every competitor. Now even non-competitors are becoming faster for obvious AWD reasons such as Audi S lines, BMW M Performance and let alone new monster Mercedes. Heck I've had my ass handed to me by Imprezas, Lancers and even some tuned Audi TT 1.8. When that "ass handing" happens (which is 90% of the time) - usual self illusionary comforting phrases like "Their cars are made of cheap plastic", "This is a family car" and "They have AWD" don't really help against a frustrating fact that they just owned you.

M5 F10 is not a track car either, it's a fast sedan best suited for driving on highways where most of its power is utilized. This car quickly fell behind the competition not even 1 year before it was launched. By the way oversteer is nothing to be happy about either, it's a loss of control over the vehicle (even if it's a controlled loss of control) and doesn't help in those embarrassing situations at all.

It's safe to say that for the next 6 years we should get used that Audi RS6/RS7 and new E-Class/CLS (AWD and horsepower upgrade) will eat our cars for breakfast - at any speed, and new $4000 optional LED lights on an early LCI devaluating my car won't really help making M5 and M5. I think BMW didn't include xDrive and weight reduction in current M5 because they knew they can get away with it and car would generate revenue anyway thanks to its history and design. You can oversteer and have fun driving an AWD, with the real all-wheel-drive system only assisting when traction is a problem (snow, drag, rain etc).

Still I love my car and will enjoy my "no longer fastest, since long ago" for the next 6 years to come

Сurrent (soon to be upgraded) E-Class/CLS with a few tunes are significantly faster than M5, whereas those tunes for M5 are yet to show ANY improvement in acceleration (at least those that would be better than those press cars from day 1).


Last edited by singularity; 02-01-2013 at 04:50 AM..
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      02-01-2013, 07:44 AM   #42
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All the fastest time statistics are just numbers, driving the car is what it is all about. If you chase statistics you will be trading your car in every 6 months. I really enjoy the M5 however the car is garbage in real snow conditions that I have in Canada and for that reason alone I would like the option of AWD.
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      02-01-2013, 07:46 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth.pilot View Post
The reason is because the M Division was the last bastion of purism within BMW. However they will soon sell out and you will get your AWD.
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      02-01-2013, 08:05 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by singularity View Post
I agree with GamataF10M5's complaint.

M5 is 90% of the time driven in the city, where your work, university, family, shops and night clubs (otherwise it was wiser to buy a house near your frequent destination instead of M5). Even those people who drive through highways have to go through a city, one way or another.

This means 90% of the time M5 is driven at speeds from 0-100 km/h, thus losing almost any drag race in a spirited driving or city drags M5 loses to every competitor. Now even non-competitors are becoming faster for obvious AWD reasons such as Audi S lines, BMW M Performance and let alone new monster Mercedes. Heck I've had my ass handed to me by Imprezas, Lancers and even some tuned Audi TT 1.8. When that "ass handing" happens (which is 90% of the time) - usual self illusionary comforting phrases like "Their cars are made of cheap plastic", "This is a family car" and "They have AWD" don't really help against a frustrating fact that they just owned you.

M5 F10 is not a track car either, it's a fast sedan best suited for driving on highways where most of its power is utilized. This car quickly fell behind the competition not even 1 year before it was launched. By the way oversteer is nothing to be happy about either, it's a loss of control over the vehicle (even if it's a controlled loss of control) and doesn't help in those embarrassing situations at all.

It's safe to say that for the next 6 years we should get used that Audi RS6/RS7 and new E-Class/CLS (AWD and horsepower upgrade) will eat our cars for breakfast - at any speed, and new $4000 optional LED lights on an early LCI devaluating my car won't really help making M5 and M5. I think BMW didn't include xDrive and weight reduction in current M5 because they knew they can get away with it and car would generate revenue anyway thanks to its history and design. You can oversteer and have fun driving an AWD, with the real all-wheel-drive system only assisting when traction is a problem (snow, drag, rain etc).

Still I love my car and will enjoy my "no longer fastest, since long ago" for the next 6 years to come

Сurrent (soon to be upgraded) E-Class/CLS with a few tunes are significantly faster than M5, whereas those tunes for M5 are yet to show ANY improvement in acceleration (at least those that would be better than those press cars from day 1).


Nicely said, that's exactly the point that I'm trying to get across.
When people look at my car I want them to say "this car is a beast" and not "this thing is not faster than a Subaru"!!!
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