KW Clubsports on the street?

[Used2be]

I have a 2013 M5 without the competition pack, but have added the comp sway bars. I'm leaning toward the KW Clubsports to replace my springs and shocks. I've read other posts about how good the KW V3 set up is, but would like to know if anyone is using the Clubsports for everyday street driving? Is the road noise/vibration much more evident inside the car? I don't mind a taut ride if the shocks smooth out the sharp impacts from road irregularities, but I don't want the same sort of ride that the H&R springs were reported to give. I may be foolish, but I'm willing to sacrifice some comfort on the street to gain some seconds on the track, even if just track days. It would be nice not to be passed by the smaller and more agile RS Audis in the curvy bits! You can see I blame the car, not the driver! The M5 is such a marvelous touring car with huge power, an improvement in the handling of such a heavy car would be a real plus.

[PhilT3]

take a different car to the track. M5 is a friggin BOAT! And even you said...its a touring car. Save the money you'd spend on Clubsports and put that into a car suitable for the track! ; )

Just my opinion. Enjoy your car as you like my friend!

As for your question...I cannot provide any insight... sorry.

[mastek]

Originally Posted by PhilT3

take a different car to the track. M5 is a friggin BOAT! And even you said...its a touring car. Save the money you'd spend on Clubsports and put that into a car suitable for the track! ; )

Just my opinion. Enjoy your car as you like my friend!

As for your question...I cannot provide any insight... sorry.

Agreed.
F10M5 is built on the 7 series platform, enough said.
The KW Clubsport are overkill as they are 3 way adjustable and harder spring rates and lower hours for the shocks before rebuild.
The KWV3 will transform the F10M5 into how an ///M car should come out of the box.
If you really must take it to the track the KWV3s will lower lap times as well as the Clubsports.
If it was the same car, same day with the same (pro) driver and the V3 versus the Clubsports.... the only gained time would be from a race engineer gathering Accelerometer and potentiometer data and adjusting the Clubsports accordingly. ..and even then we are talking 1 second tops.

[Used2be]

There is no doubt the F10 M5 is a BOAT! But as far as boats (aren’t all sedans boats compared to real race cars?) go, it is fun to slide around a track. It will never be a race car, but for track days I enjoy trying to improve my skills and lower my lap times at various tracks. BMW has put some effort into making their boat capable of being pushed harder on track than your average sedan, and I like to play with it in that manner. If I’m able to surprise other sedan owners with the speed and handling of my particular boat in relation to theirs, that adds to the fun.

I’m hoping there is one other owner out there who has installed the Clubsports on their M5 and can tell me how it functions as an everyday driver. If it improved my lap times by 5 seconds, but was a wooden rail for everyday driving I wouldn’t use the Clubsports. I enjoy the car too much to sacrifice the day to day pleasure of driving for improved lap times. That’s why I’ve posted my question.

Mastek, you seem to be a knowledgable man about suspensions, did you take your M5 on track with the stock suspension and now with the KW V3? What differences did you notice? Do the V3 springs provide a more firm ride than the stock non-CP springs? Thanks for your thoughts.

[PhilT3]

Originally Posted by mastek

Agreed.
F10M5 is built on the 7 series platform, enough said.
The KW Clubsport are overkill as they are 3 way adjustable and harder spring rates and lower hours for the shocks before rebuild.
The KWV3 will transform the F10M5 into how an ///M car should come out of the box.
If you really must take it to the track the KWV3s will lower lap times as well as the Clubsports.
If it was the same car, same day with the same (pro) driver and the V3 versus the Clubsports.... the only gained time would be from a race engineer gathering Accelerometer and potentiometer data and adjusting the Clubsports accordingly. ..and even then we are talking 1 second tops.

Yep.

[PhilT3]

Originally Posted by Used2be

There is no doubt the F10 M5 is a BOAT! But as far as boats (aren’t all sedans boats compared to real race cars?) go, it is fun to slide around a track. It will never be a race car, but for track days I enjoy trying to improve my skills and lower my lap times at various tracks. BMW has put some effort into making their boat capable of being pushed harder on track than your average sedan, and I like to play with it in that manner. If I’m able to surprise other sedan owners with the speed and handling of my particular boat in relation to theirs, that adds to the fun.

I’m hoping there is one other owner out there who has installed the Clubsports on their M5 and can tell me how it functions as an everyday driver. If it improved my lap times by 5 seconds, but was a wooden rail for everyday driving I wouldn’t use the Clubsports. I enjoy the car too much to sacrifice the day to day pleasure of driving for improved lap times. That’s why I’ve posted my question.

Mastek, you seem to be a knowledgable man about suspensions, did you take your M5 on track with the stock suspension and now with the KW V3? What differences did you notice? Do the V3 springs provide a more firm ride than the stock non-CP springs? Thanks for your thoughts.

Totally understood bud! Good luck and have fun! Make sure you trade your helmet for a captains hat! Lol

[mastek]

Originally Posted by Used2be

Mastek, you seem to be a knowledgable man about suspensions, did you take your M5 on track with the stock suspension and now with the KW V3? What differences did you notice? Do the V3 springs provide a more firm ride than the stock non-CP springs? Thanks for your thoughts.

I have never taken my M5 on the track, but I have some track experience.
The KWV3 for the F10M5 is more compliant over rough street surfaces then the OE shocks. Faster to react and absorbs impacts better then the OE shocks.
In performance driving the KWV3 has the same compliance over rough surfaces and less body roll and/or dive then OE shocks.

The whole car feels more planted in turns, the braking feels more stable and the power becomes more usable then OE. The entire F10 chassis becomes more stable and linear and more predictable = what else could you ask for in terms of a modification that improves the car at 3 points and in both street and track applications?

If the Clubsport is better then the KWV3 kit, it will come at some price.
Usually: rebuild time, street comfort or price (mostly, all of the above).

As far as the 'sedan race car' comment... thats exactly what BMW is famous for.
Taking a production sedan chassis and beating sports cars with it.
Collectively, the e30, e36 and e46 chassis have been the most successful production-class, sedan, racing programs in history.

[Used2be]

Originally Posted by mastek

The entire F10 chassis becomes more stable and linear and more predictable = what else could you ask for in terms of a modification that improves the car at 3 points and in both street and track applications?

As far as the 'sedan race car' comment... thats exactly what BMW is famous for.
Taking a production sedan chassis and beating sports cars with it.
Collectively, the e30, e36 and e46 chassis have been the most successful production-class, sedan, racing programs in history.

Thanks for your input. Pretty much what you'd already outlined in your comments on the KW V3 previously. No one has stepped up to admit to using the Clubsports with the F10, and perhaps no one has, but the V3 should be all that I'm needing. I don't want to be the test car for the Clubsports on the street.

Yes, BMW is famous for building wonderful sedans, that's why I enjoy the M5 for track days. I was referring to the open wheel variety of race cars, not sport cars that are built for the street. I raced a 1969 BMW 2002 in the early 70s as a B sedan and BMW has come a long way since then with the car's basic capabilities right off the showroom floor!

[mcvaughan]

Originally Posted by Used2be

Thanks for your input. Pretty much what you'd already outlined in your comments on the KW V3 previously. No one has stepped up to admit to using the Clubsports with the F10, and perhaps no one has, but the V3 should be all that I'm needing. I don't want to be the test car for the Clubsports on the street.

Yes, BMW is famous for building wonderful sedans, that's why I enjoy the M5 for track days. I was referring to the open wheel variety of race cars, not sport cars that are built for the street. I raced a 1969 BMW 2002 in the early 70s as a B sedan and BMW has come a long way since then with the car's basic capabilities right off the showroom floor!

iND has them on their car.

Just so you know, the ClubSports are over $6k.

[Used2be]

Originally Posted by mcvaughan

iND has them on their car.

Just so you know, the ClubSports are over $6k.

I read in a post just the other day that IND had sold the set that was on their car to a man somewhere in the middle east, I think. I wonder what they have on it now? Nate had told me it wasn't bad on the street, but I really wonder how many miles of street driving their car had done?

Yes, fully aware the Clubsports are twice what the V3 kit is. Part of my reason to go with the V3!

[mcvaughan]

Originally Posted by Used2be

I read in a post just the other day that IND had sold the set that was on their car to a man somewhere in the middle east, I think. I wonder what they have on it now? Nate had told me it wasn't bad on the street, but I really wonder how many miles of street driving their car had done?

Yes, fully aware the Clubsports are twice what the V3 kit is. Part of my reason to go with the V3!

I think you'd be happy with the V3 kit.

[Boostedm514]

Pm sent I have v3s for you if your interested, still in boxes

[RPiM5]

Good discussion.

Used2be, don't listen to some who say the M5 shouldn't be taken on the track. It's still a bonafide ///M car that was developed and tuned on the Nurburgring. The best piece of advice I ever got was that if you seriously want to track, then buy a real track car. I'm not talking about a Porsche Cup Car or a Spec Subaru BRZ, or even an Ariel Atom or BAC Mono, I'm talking about a built from the ground up dedicated track car that is not street legal. I'm talking about something like a Formula Ford, or something in that class. I myself would love to do that too, you know, install a hitch on the back of the M5, buy a trailer, and tow my Formula racing car to the track, but like 99.99% of M5 owners, I don't have the time, money, physical space, etc, etc... to do that. The fact is that every ///M car ever made has too much performance for the street. From the E30 M3 to the F13 M6 Coupe, it's all too much for the street according to the laws of the United States, so I don't listen to anyone who talks about not taking an ///M car on the track. It's really the only place to use every bit of performance of the car even though it may not be optimally suited to get the best lap time out of every car on the track that day. The F10 M5 is certainly heavy for the track, but it's certainly not a boat either. The Bentley Continental GT is a boat on the track. Even the X5M is a heck of a lot heavier than the M5 and people pull decent lap times out of that thing all the time. For me personally, it really doesn't matter what kind of car you are driving on the track, even if it's a completely stripped out 2011 CTS-V that weighs less than 3,600lbs and has been modified to 800hp, its still 2,000lbs heavier than a Formula Club racing car. By this logic, even the all new, still yet to be produced and delivered Porsche Cayman GT4 is still too heavy for the track. Even at 2,900lbs it's still vastly outclassed by real purpose built track cars. Therefore, I believe in using what you've got and making it the way that you want to so that you can have the most fun with it whether its at the track or on the street.

Anyways, I believe that Post Member Hoopumpers ran the KWV3's on his M5 before he got rid of it, said they were fantastic. I think PertPlus ran the same setup and he loved them as well. If I remember correctly, PertPlus said he wanted to marry his springs. Lol! I would love to try them as well, but I'm running the Eibachs and they are plenty good enough for me both on the street and on the track. Any set of aftermarket springs will reduce roll in the M5, which the stock Non-Comp Pack springs don't really do a good job of. Even the stock Comp-Package springs are pretty good and actually have a stiffer spring rate than my Eibachs.

[Used2be]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Good discussion.

Used2be, don't listen to some who say the M5 shouldn't be taken on the track. The fact is that every ///M car ever made has too much performance for the street. It's really the only place to use every bit of performance of the car even though it may not be optimally suited to get the best lap time out of every car on the track that day. The F10 M5 is certainly heavy for the track, but it's certainly not a boat either. Therefore, I believe in using what you've got and making it the way that you want to so that you can have the most fun with it whether its at the track or on the street.

Anyways, I believe that Post Member Hoopumpers ran the KWV3's on his M5 before he got rid of it, said they were fantastic. I think PertPlus ran the same setup and he loved them as well. If I remember correctly, PertPlus said he wanted to marry his springs.

I enjoy the M5 on track. I just keep in mind that it is too heavy to perform as a well set up M3 does in the turns. I have to be careful not to get sucked into a turn following a car which is able to corner much better. It is fun on the straights though! I can't afford a separate car for the track, so the M5 fills that nicely. In 2010 I bought the S1000RR motorcycle for the street and soon realized I could only really enjoy it on the track. It's been a fun track day bike ever since. Corners almost as well as the 600s and blows them away on the straights. Hoopumpers had the KW HAS set and liked it well enough, but I thought I'd try the V3.

[Boostedm514]

I have v3s for sale for 2600 shipped brand new in boxes !
Pm me and save

[Used2be]

Originally Posted by Boostedm514

I have v3s for sale for 2600 shipped brand new in boxes !
Pm me and save

I even quoted you to give you more exposure, but in the future why not just bump your "Some one buy my v3s" post instead of cluttering up other member's posts with your sales pitch? You could stay on the very top of the suspension forum that way and those who have already seen and read your offer could pass it by.

[Vudoo4u2]

I'm driving my M5 DD with Clubsports....no complaints, and I'm in Manhattan where the roads are atrocious. I don't have any experience with the V3s