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      04-19-2014, 09:31 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodonx
Unlike all previous Ms, we should all agree this M5 power train overwhelms the chassis.

Instead of AWD, I prefer BMW not to follow HP war. It should keep the 500HP or less, RWD and focus on light-weight, great handling car.

I like F80 direction is going. They keep it at around 420HP.
I disagree. The M5 is a grand touring car built for luxury and speed. I have no problem with the weight and would not want to trade horsepower for weight.

Now, with the M3, I definitely agree that they should revert back to weight savings. Unfortunately, that will probably never happen.
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      04-19-2014, 10:35 AM   #46
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The new M3 is almost 200 lbs lighter than E9x M3.

The original M5 mission was to create an executive sedan which can dance on curvy roads, not a luxurious missile.

AMG is known for luxurious missile. And, M5 is "tricked" into that territory.
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      04-19-2014, 10:47 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrewM5
Wow - some pretty harsh replies. How many miles do you have on the car. Keep in mind it may take a few hundred miles for your tires to be at max traction. That said, just about any time you stomp the go pedal, you will be able to break the rear end loose. But stomping isn't the proper way to drive fast in any event.
I agree. And don't forget the OP is in the northeast where it's still cold which have a significant effect on the PSS's tire grip levels. I agree with the OP as I get spin easily with conservative throttle inputs around town in especially in cool / damp conditions. Once the tires warm up properly the M5 is pure awesomeness; I have 2 different cars depending on the air/ground/tire temperatures. I feel temps make a bigger difference to the handling properties of this car because of the tires. Crazy hypothetical but now wouldn't it be nifty to have optional AWD for the winter and be able to completely disengage it for hooligan fun times (disregarding the weight gain, of course)!
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      04-19-2014, 12:11 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GratefulM5 View Post
I agree. And don't forget the OP is in the northeast where it's still cold which have a significant effect on the PSS's tire grip levels. I agree with the OP as I get spin easily with conservative throttle inputs around town in especially in cool / damp conditions. Once the tires warm up properly the M5 is pure awesomeness; I have 2 different cars depending on the air/ground/tire temperatures. I feel temps make a bigger difference to the handling properties of this car because of the tires. Crazy hypothetical but now wouldn't it be nifty to have optional AWD for the winter and be able to completely disengage it for hooligan fun times (disregarding the weight gain, of course)!
Should be easy to do. Just do a Ferrari FF AWD system.

It weighs only 50% of a traditional AWD system and is independently controllable. It takes the drive from the front end of the crankshaft instead of from the gearbox as other systems do.



http://blog.caranddriver.com/funky-f...-drive-system/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_FF

Last edited by Boss330; 04-19-2014 at 12:22 PM..
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      04-19-2014, 12:27 PM   #49
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The M5 allows me to enjoy an occasional burnout or 2, not possible in a awd car.
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      04-19-2014, 01:40 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GNALUZU View Post
I have 4 words for you:

High performance driving school

Go attend one and you will learn that it is possible to utilize all the power safely and controllable.
Exactly.
Learn to drive.
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      04-19-2014, 06:38 PM   #51
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I get what the OP is saying, but are the CLS/E 63, RS7 and GTR the best comparisons? Specifically, would the new Alpina B6 GC xDrive be a better comparison of AWD vs. RWD with substantial HP (540) and torque (540) since it will have BMW "DNA" so to speak? Seeing how the Alpina puts down the power AND handles, along with comparing the numbers at high speeds (Alpina supposely will be limited at 198 mph) might provide some good data. I know that the M5 and B6 are different cars, but Alpina seems to do really well when it adds to existing BMW technology. The fun factor of RWD is hard to dispute and discount. Just trying to think about this a little differently, but more knowledgeable people please enlighten me/us...
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      04-19-2014, 07:12 PM   #52
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RWD is about the only reason why I switched from MB to BMW. What's the point of having an M if it doesn't go sideways?
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      04-19-2014, 07:15 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guilty
RWD is about the only reason why I switched from MB to BMW. What's the point of having an M if it doesn't go sideways?
Yup. The only problem with BMW's is finding a place where there's no LEO's in order to enjoy the RWD nature.

Also you ever notice how people in regular cars get all pissed off whenever you display the RWD and DSC OFF around them? I hate that.
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      04-19-2014, 07:27 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
Yup. The only problem with BMW's is finding a place where there's no LEO's in order to enjoy the RWD nature.

Also you ever notice how people in regular cars get all pissed off whenever you display the RWD and DSC OFF around them? I hate that.
Because people believe most burnouts end like this: http://jalopnik.com/mustang-at-cars-...-at-1514303344

Especially look at the second view.
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      04-19-2014, 07:30 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wzj519
Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth.pilot View Post
I wouldn't stress out too much about what previous owner did. These cars are meant to be driven. The key is to check the service history, and diagnostic data. See if there were any warranty claims.

You can also look for indicators car was well treated. Clearbra and extra oil changes are a great indicator.

Buying off a board member here is another good way of getting transparency. Look up their posts and see what they did and whether they had any issues.
Thanks again Stealth. I do know some forum members' cars are definitely first option to puchase if I do not want to face the crapy financial and relibility issues.
However, I am located in Canada, purchasing from states would be kind of headache.
Also, I checked with 3 good BMW dealers, they do have the preowned 13 m5s with really low milege e.g. I found one MCB 13 m5 with black interior and it just has 6800kms right now, but those cars just don't have the option I want. If I am going with the m5, I need the full leather for sure (I have this in my 650gc). B&O speakers is also a must option for me. The most loaded m5 is the one I mentioned above, but it hust has the exclutive pkg and lacks of the other two.
However I figured out something right now. If I am going with the m5, I do not need the CCB and cP PKG actually, just order one would be a better option for me than taking the one I mentioned yesterday which is a frozen black limited edition.
Otherwise, I might go with the lci e63 amg. I just got some information back from my friend who works in the MB dealership, their trade in value for my 650gc is better than what BMW gave me. All I can say is BMW is really low balling me now especially the dealership where I purchased my GC from.
If you decide to buy a new car, I would suggest you wait for the LCI CLS63. That will be announced by June I think and goes into production in July or August.
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      04-19-2014, 07:32 PM   #56
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modulate throttle and check tire pressure. I don't have this issue.
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      04-19-2014, 08:16 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
It seems the OP have issues with my tongue in cheek comment about the difference between a marque and marquee, and has gone full attack on Europe again. I just wonder why he still finds it ok to drive a European car, built by socialists apparently... Isn't that supporting and funding us "socialists" over here???

Just kidding I just find it amusing
So it's the "high road" you take, or should I say high minded.. You just find "it all amusing". You are just above it all. Must be fun watching all of this from up there.

Typical Eurobankrupt failing attitude. Newsflash, you are not above us. Quite the contrary.
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      04-19-2014, 08:18 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GratefulM5 View Post
I agree. And don't forget the OP is in the northeast where it's still cold which have a significant effect on the PSS's tire grip levels. I agree with the OP as I get spin easily with conservative throttle inputs around town in especially in cool / damp conditions. Once the tires warm up properly the M5 is pure awesomeness; I have 2 different cars depending on the air/ground/tire temperatures. I feel temps make a bigger difference to the handling properties of this car because of the tires. Crazy hypothetical but now wouldn't it be nifty to have optional AWD for the winter and be able to completely disengage it for hooligan fun times (disregarding the weight gain, of course)!
Ahh, but I don't have PSS's!
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      04-19-2014, 08:20 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdM5 View Post
Exactly.
Learn to drive.
Yawn. I have been to performance school more times than you have been to the toilet.

And understanding how to manage wheel spin and control a car that wants to go out of control, all the time, does not exactly disprove my original post.

Last edited by BMWonlyZone; 04-19-2014 at 08:42 PM..
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      04-19-2014, 08:47 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWonlyZone
I know the purists are going to want to hang me for this, but I think my M5 should be AWD, and wish it was. And let me start by saying I "mostly" love the car.

I come to this conclusion after only a few weeks with her, but there is just too much power coming out of the rear wheels to effectively put it to the ground. Like most of us, I experience wheel spin at every turn, etc. Hit the gas at 40MPH, wheels are spinning all over the place.

For me, this car should be AWD and inspires little confidence as RWD. Yes yes, I know it's supposed to be driven like a man should drive it, but its still a 2 ton luxury sedan that most of us drive on the public road every day.

Why do I think I am going to hear it for this........
I agree, if porsche does it with the turbo and turbo s then I think bmw can succumb to logical engineering.

I love my M5 in 40 degrees or higher. Hate it anything below.

Bought a turbo s as my winter car!

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      04-19-2014, 09:29 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
Yup. The only problem with BMW's is finding a place where there's no LEO's in order to enjoy the RWD nature.

Also you ever notice how people in regular cars get all pissed off whenever you display the RWD and DSC OFF around them? I hate that.
DSC is always OFF unless it's raining and god knows how much I enjoy pissing people off by going sideways at every turn

On a side note, I test drove the F-Type Cab today and was very impressed. Power delivery is very smooth and the sound is just intoxicating. Might get a Coupe to replace the M6. I never really adapted to the turbo lag

The only drawback is that the interior plainly sucks in the jag.
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      04-20-2014, 04:51 AM   #62
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I have to agree with 4wd. but not because of its hp but weight. the M5 has about 45kg of extra weight in the nose and 150kg overall that should not be there and it makes it slightly unbalanced and in my opinion the 4wd despite beeing heavier would give it more precision. if its power and rwd only you need I think the M3 will be the answer. In any case here in europe most roads you just have enough space to fit the M5 let alone drift it.
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      04-20-2014, 05:35 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guilty
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
Yup. The only problem with BMW's is finding a place where there's no LEO's in order to enjoy the RWD nature.

Also you ever notice how people in regular cars get all pissed off whenever you display the RWD and DSC OFF around them? I hate that.
DSC is always OFF unless it's raining and god knows how much I enjoy pissing people off by going sideways at every turn

On a side note, I test drove the F-Type Cab today and was very impressed. Power delivery is very smooth and the sound is just intoxicating. Might get a Coupe to replace the M6. I never really adapted to the turbo lag

The only drawback is that the interior plainly sucks in the jag.
You can only replace the M5 if you get the Coupe R version.

I've sat in the Coupe R before and your right the interior leaves much to be desired but I found the ergonomics to be quite excellent although the seats in the F8x M3/M4 are 3x as comfortable as the Jags. I'm not sure I could take really long trips in the Coupe R, but that stock exhaust note is like having Kiera Knightley talk dirty to you.
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      04-20-2014, 07:12 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWonlyZone View Post
So it's the "high road" you take, or should I say high minded.. You just find "it all amusing". You are just above it all. Must be fun watching all of this from up there.

Typical Eurobankrupt failing attitude. Newsflash, you are not above us. Quite the contrary.
I'm not "above it all" at all

Neither have I ever said so, quite the contrary. In your last rant against me as a European I acknowledged the fact that Europe would not have been what it is today without the Marshall aid plan after WWII. Or as a very important ally during WWII, the cold war and today. To me the US is a favourite holiday destination. I have US family living close by me over here (one of them is actually having dinner at our house now). We visit our US family frequently and will celebrate 4th of July with them this summer. I have several active duty military family members in the US, including a Navy Seal. I have great respect for the US and my country has very close military and political ties with the US My country's constitution (which is 200 years this year, making it the second oldest democratic constitution in the world that is still in place in it's original form) is based on the US and French constitutions, indicating what major impact the US had on Europe as well.

But you obviously must have a grudge against us Europeans, since a simple comment about "marque vs marquee" makes you insult me as a European and everything else European... THAT is amusing

If you feel the US is "above Europe" (based on your "quite the contrary" comment). Good for you In many, many areas, the US is above/better than Europe

Last edited by Boss330; 04-20-2014 at 07:50 AM..
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      04-20-2014, 08:17 AM   #65
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Funny how you got attacked. Fact of the matter is that you are CORRECT. It is wildly out of control when you try to put the power down. All of these "super drivers" claiming to have such skill to control the car and advising that you attend driving school, etc. are experiencing EXACTLY what you are. I have had an F10 M5 and currently am F12 M6 cab and pretty much every time I drive the M6 I get the same feeling. People "adapt" to what they drive and learn to overlook the flaws. Many will argue until they are blue in the face to defend the car, right or wrong. Remember the MotorTrend track comparison against the AMG, 911, etc, where Randy Probst said "The only car I didn't want to take around the track again was the M6"? Yeah, I found myself defending the car. Now I get it. Fact is, it is an issue. The new M cars are wonderful cars and have ridiculously good characteristics but this is truly a flaw. BMW has not figured out how to make the power usable at low end. Driving the M car side by side with a powerful AWD car makes it off the charts noticeable. I get put of my Porsche TTS (I know this comparison will irritate some but nonetheless it is very much a reality) that literally jumps off the line and sticks in turns harder as you mash the throttle and then into the M6 and I find it to be almost as if it is completely out of control. Constant modulation of the throttle is necessary to avoid wheel spin from a stop unless you very gradually apply throttle off the line and in curves-forget it. Then there's Launch "Control". No "Control" about it. BMW has not gotten the power to ground formula figured out in this car. Great car but with this much power AWD is needed. Would vastly improve the drivability. BMW has the problem of added weight however. I suspect this is the actual reason for not going to AWD rather than BMWs claim that they want the car to remain a "true RWD driving car." It's not a track car. Far too heavy. Need to take advantage of its strength-POWER! AWD would do that instantly and guaranteed everyone opposing your view would trade their RWD the day it was available.
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      04-20-2014, 08:39 AM   #66
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Good thread. Bout time someone livened up things around here. lol!

Also do we think the M3/M4 is going to be any better as far as traction goes? Prolly not.
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