M5 Comparo Road and Track - the actual article

[stealth.pilot]

See attachments.

[B-1Pilot]

Wow my article in my issue looks nothing like those... Is this online now?

Oh and Stealth... It's the CP

**Edit** so when not viewing on this my iPad with the bimmerpost app, but instead using my computer's browser, I can see your pics are screen caps from the digital version on your own iPad... I had wanted to post pics earlier, but the magazine format made the pics hard to get.

[Bluehorseshoe]

Surprising how the M5s gearbox was the least liked of the bunch.

[ghueser]

So I ask again. Is the passenger side mirror folded in on that tire ripping picture? If it is.....is this some secret aerodynamic feature of the car that I dont know about yet?

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by B-1 Pilot

Wow my article in my issue looks nothing like those... Is this online now?

Oh and Stealth... It's the CP

**Edit** so when not viewing on this my iPad with the bimmerpost app, but instead using my computer's browser, I can see your pics are screen caps from the digital version on your own iPad... I had wanted to post pics earlier, but the magazine format made the pics hard to get.

i pasted the whole thing in a more legible picture size.

[6spdterror]

Really?? The M5 gearbox rates a 2.5 compared to some of those automatics?!? SMH

[RPiM5]

Sometimes these reviews are so counter-intuitive. Why did they give the M5 lowest rating for the gearbox? They made no mention of it in the write up? Also why did they rate the RS7 the highest on exterior looks when it looks almost identical to the A7, which they stated. Maybe it's because they love the base A7 so much. And what's so wrong with the DCT in the S7?? I've never heard anything about it before.

Overall, I thought it was a very well written and complete write up and comparison. I think they did a really good job doing their homework on this one.

Also what's up with the rating with the M5's pedal brake feel? The test M5 had CCB's on it, it won't get any better than that. Lol! I'm glad they at least tested an M5 with both the Comp Pack and the CCB's for this comparo. I think they hit the nail on the head when they talked about the M5's steering though. How it feels great during every day road driving, but at the limits it feels numb with no great feedback. I was surprised to see the Panny's steering ranked so low though.

I can't wait for the next serious comparison. Say the 2015 F80/F82 M3/M4, 2015 Cadillac ATS-V, 2015 Merc C55 AMG, 2015 Lexus RC-F/IS-F, and 2016 Audi RS4.

Also keep in mind the next generation 2016 CTS-V is right around the corner. I'm already predicting curb weight less than 3,900lbs and more than 560hp. Competition will be stiff in the future.

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/201...py-photos-news

[dhirm5]

For some reason they love the famously slow-shifting ZF 8 speed. To me that says they prefer slushboxes to manuals. DCT shifts amazingly fast, but rough under load - which I love - but maybe led to their scoring it lower. Maybe they like smoother shifts. This is further evidenced by the fact that they scored the Porsche's PDK below the two ZF sporting cars (Audi and Benz) as well. Not sure what the Jaguar's got, and don't care.

Stealth - thanks for posting this.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by dhirm5

For some reason they love the famously slow-shifting ZF 8 speed.

Although I agree that the DCT is in a different class, the ZF8 speed in later BMW models have been vastly improved and have shifts that is almost as quick and hard as a DCT. Drove the latest X5 and in that car the ZF8 speed shifted quicker and harder than I have ever experienced before. In the M235i Racing they also use the ZF8 speed and that has even quicker shift times.

I have only read reviews that praises the ZF 8 speed compared to other autos.

And strangely enough the DCT in the M5 seems to divide opinions in a love it or hate it group. People like Chris Harris loves it, but many reviewers seem to feel it's jerky and not as good as other boxes (even German magazines such as Sport Auto have complained about the DCT being jerky...).

To me, the DCT is a defining factor in the M5 and one thing that puts it in a class above the competition with slush boxes.

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by Boss330

Although I agree that the DCT is in a different class, the ZF8 speed in later BMW models have been vastly improved and have shifts that is almost as quick and hard as a DCT. Drove the latest X5 and in that car the ZF8 speed shifted quicker and harder than I have ever experienced before. In the M235i Racing they also use the ZF8 speed and that has even quicker shift times.

I have only read reviews that praises the ZF 8 speed compared to other autos.

And strangely enough the DCT in the M5 seems to divide opinions in a love it or hate it group. People like Chris Harris loves it, but many reviewers seem to feel it's jerky and not as good as other boxes (even German magazines such as Sport Auto have complained about the DCT being jerky...).

To me, the DCT is a defining factor in the M5 and one thing that puts it in a class above the competition with slush boxes.

I don't understand all this jerkiness they are talking about. Not once have I ever had a jerky shift. Shifting at redline in S3 mode certainly the shifts are abrupt, but they are no where near jerky. Silliness I tell ya.

[Used2be]

Stealth, thanks for posting, I'm not a subscriber to R&T. The only complaint I have with the BMW DCT is that it seems a little slow on downshifts. Even with a manual trans and double clutching for a downshift I think I'd be in the lower gear with the clutch out more quickly. Upshifts are awesome however!

[stealth.pilot]

The transmission scores are ridiculous in my opinion.

I would rate BMW DCT and Porsche PDK as both 5. I would rate the Mercedes SMT as 3.5, and the ZF auto as 3 on the Audi and 2.5 on the Jag (different programming).

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by Used2be

Stealth, thanks for posting, I'm not a subscriber to R&T. The only complaint I have with the BMW DCT is that it seems a little slow on downshifts. Even with a manual trans and double clutching for a downshift I think I'd be in the lower gear with the clutch out more quickly. Upshifts are awesome however!

Did you know that if you need to downshift from 7 to 3 to max acceleration, you can push accelerator to full throttle and pull downshift lever and DCT will go straight from 7 to 3 in one shift?

[Used2be]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

Did you know that if you need to downshift from 7 to 3 to max acceleration, you can push accelerator to full throttle and pull downshift lever and DCT will go straight from 7 to 3 in one shift?

I have done that a couple of times and it's great. Not something I need to do very often though. The one track day I've done had me needing to start my downshifting from third to second a little further from the approaching turn than I thought I'd have to. It starts the downshift process quickly enough, but doesn't seem to engage the clutch as quickly as it could once the gear is selected. Maybe there's a software adjustment for that?

[saflang]

It would seem to me they didn't learn the M5's DCT before they tested it. If they didn't like the abrupt shifts S3 produces they should have tried S2. I love using S2 in the rain, it limits wheel slip during gear changes but still changes gears mighty fast.

--- the manic M5 is a mother to control

[dhirm5]

Originally Posted by Boss330

Although I agree that the DCT is in a different class, the ZF8 speed in later BMW models have been vastly improved and have shifts that is almost as quick and hard as a DCT. Drove the latest X5 and in that car the ZF8 speed shifted quicker and harder than I have ever experienced before. In the M235i Racing they also use the ZF8 speed and that has even quicker shift times.

I have only read reviews that praises the ZF 8 speed compared to other autos.

I believe the complaint is primarily directed at the use of the manual mode with that tranny. Hit lever, wait, shift - at least that's what I read regarding a recent AMG.

Originally Posted by Boss330

To me, the DCT is a defining factor in the M5 and one thing that puts it in a class above the competition with slush boxes.

Absolutely. I love DCT.

[Bokke]

Thanks for posting!

Nothing like "lay'n 225 feet of rubber" on the way to 60mph........

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by dhirm5

I believe the complaint is primarily directed at the use of the manual mode with that tranny. Hit lever, wait, shift - at least that's what I read regarding a recent AMG.

AMG doesn't use the ZF 8 speed...

They have their own 7 speed auto:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercede...c_transmission

[dhirm5]

Originally Posted by Boss330

AMG doesn't use the ZF 8 speed...

They have their own 7 speed auto:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercede...c_transmission

I stand corrected.

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by Boss330

AMG doesn't use the ZF 8 speed...

They have their own 7 speed auto:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercede...c_transmission" rel="" target="_blank">http://<a href="http://en.wikipedia....ansmission</a>

Actually Mercedes uses a DCT not an auto. It's called the AMG Speedshift MCT. Critically this means it has a two clutch wet clutch setup, and no power sucking torque converter.

While I agree the ZF auto has improved a lot, having owned a 2012 550i M-Sport with Sport Auto, I can tell you that the M-DCT and AMG MCT are way better than the ZF auto. Shifts are faster, crisper, and the downshift process is much better. The biggest benefit of this is when driving in auto mode where you get uninterrupted power delivery at all times with DCT and not with Auto.

[RealStig]

I don't understand these performance metrics in this review. Based on performance numbers, M5 should be the worst car in the list. It has the longest quarter mile time, slowest 0-60 number, worst breaking performance, and one of the worst road holding g number.

First of all, are these numbers accurate? I thought the M5 stopped in 106 ft from 60 mph, but based on this article that's 122 ft? That's terrible! My current M3 which is also not light by any means (3750 lbs) and have the crappy single piston brakes which is like 7 years old design overall stops in just 100 ft. 22 ft of difference is HUGE! But forget about that, as others said in that other braking thread, two different cars, even then, the 122 ft they are saying and 106 ft which is what others are quoting is a big difference as well. 16 ft can be the difference between life and death in an accident.

Second of all, if M5 performs as bad as they say it does, how can it come on top?

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by RealStig

I don't understand these performance metrics in this review. Based on performance numbers, M5 should be the worst car in the list. It has the longest quarter mile time, slowest 0-60 number, worst breaking performance, and one of the worst road holding g number.

First of all, are these numbers accurate? I thought the M5 stopped in 106 ft from 60 mph, but based on this article that's 122 ft? That's terrible! My current M3 which is also not light by any means (3750 lbs) and have the crappy single piston brakes which is like 7 years old design overall stops in just 100 ft. 22 ft of difference is HUGE! But forget about that, as others said in that other braking thread, two different cars, even then, the 122 ft they are saying and 106 ft which is what others are quoting is a big difference as well. 16 ft can be the difference between life and death in an accident.

Second of all, if M5 performs as bad as they say it does, how can it come on top?

Because we all know that the emotional experience is much more important than the spreadsheet.