JB4 + Meth made 722whp

[Lerxst M4]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

Bms stands for burger motorsports which is the company that makes the jb4

Does the JB stand for anything? I've always wondered that.

[Lalit@autocouture]

Originally Posted by Lerxst M5

Does the JB stand for anything? I've always wondered that.

Juice box

[AstonMartian777]

I got this package and I crashed my car the 1st day I got it, i just floored it on a straight rd with traction off, at 50mph on 3rd gear in a manual mode and I lost control of my car, how ? I just don't know.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by AstonMartian777

I got this package and I crashed my car the 1st day I got it, i just floored it on a straight rd with traction off, at 50mph on 3rd gear in a manual mode and I lost control of my car, how ? I just don't know.

Sorry to hear that
Hopefully no one got hurt

[m5james]

Is it the consensus to get a real flash tune vs a piggyback, then add JB4, BCM and meth? X5M can flash tune via OBDII (I'm turning off CEL, cold idle, bumping the redline a few hundred RPM's and no governor) using ESS, but it sounds like no tuner has been able to get control of the ECU enough yet to not need devices like the JB4 and BCM. Also, isn't the JB4 used to control/monitor meth a well? All these acronyms, variances between M5 and X5M throw me off sometimes, so I wanna make sure I'm buying the proper mix and match of parts that are applicable to the X5M.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by m5james

Is it the consensus to get a real flash tune vs a piggyback, then add JB4, BCM and meth? X5M can flash tune via OBDII (I'm turning off CEL, cold idle, bumping the redline a few hundred RPM's and no governor) using ESS, but it sounds like no tuner has been able to get control of the ECU enough yet to not need devices like the JB4 and BCM. Also, isn't the JB4 used to control/monitor meth a well? All these acronyms, variances between M5 and X5M throw me off sometimes, so I wanna make sure I'm buying the proper mix and match of parts that are applicable to the X5M.

Not sure what the consensus is in the US. But just over two weeks ago I spoke with Manhart when I visited them. Also had a ride in their X5M with 700+ hp and 1000+ Nmof torque.

Their stage 1 (which comes with road legal certification) is a piggyback. For all of their higher stages they only use a flash tune since that gives them more control of every parametre in the DME.

I can't see why adding a piggyback to a flash tuned car should be necessary when you can do a better job with the flash alone? If anything you risk serious damage if you use a piggyback to fool the flash tuned car to produce even more boost... I would never risk mixing one companies flash tune with someone elses piggyback! A piggyback that was designed for use on a stock engine...

Perhaps if you want to run meth you would need a secondary management system to control the meth.

[m5james]

I've read about it lightly, but the F85 X5M is more like the F10 M5 S63TU vs the E70 X5M/X6M S63 (different turbos, headers, intake, injectors, no Valvetronic, etc) so I'm not surprised that it's got better output.

I agree about tune piggybacks, but then again Manhart is a piggyback. It's my understanding the JB4 and BCM is needed due to lack of options.

[13M5F10]

Originally Posted by m5james

I've read about it lightly, but the F85 X5M is more like the F10 M5 S63TU vs the E70 X5M/X6M S63 (different turbos, headers, intake, injectors, no Valvetronic, etc) so I'm not surprised that it's got better output.

I agree about tune piggybacks, but then again Manhart is a piggyback. It's my understanding the JB4 and BCM is needed due to lack of options.

The question would be better answered by Terry on N54Tech.

Terry has said that he feels the JB4 will be sought out by customers with ECU tune for the logging capabilities and the BCM. Logging because it will allow for the user to fine tune the tune and the BCM as it will allow to control boost better overall yielding more power.

[m5james]

I've been replying on his thread but he's said that they've never used the JB4 or BCM on an X5M. The thread seems to have taken a turn in that people don't even need tunes, just simply running JB4 and meth will met me better results than the ESS E-Flash tune I just ordered, so now I'm thinking I need to return the tune and still looking into JB4 since I planned on running meth anyways.

Run ESS for $1500 (rumored high boost misfires) or JB4 ($550) and meth ($600) and be the guinea pig for the X5M community.

[allmotor_2000]

ESS tune works well as advertised. If someone pushes things further than advertised they may have other issues. Don't fall prey to rumors.

[m5james]

I wanna push things just as you have...stock was fun for like a week, but I know there's more. I'm trying to not fall pray to rumors, but tuning on these vehicles is still pretty experimental, you yourself have went back to a stock tune so it's making me question if I should marry this device to my car and never be able to sell/return it vs selling it brand new and then proceeding with a JB4/meth combo and pushing the X5M envelope.

[13M5F10]

Originally Posted by m5james

I wanna push things just as you have...stock was fun for like a week, but I know there's more. I'm trying to not fall pray to rumors, but tuning on these vehicles is still pretty experimental, you yourself have went back to a stock tune so it's making me question if I should marry this device to my car and never be able to sell/return it vs selling it brand new and then proceeding with a JB4/meth combo and pushing the X5M envelope.

Just remember that pushing the JB4 to its limits without any adjustments to the fuel, ignition, and timing can cause premature wear on your vehicle. I think hats where the JB4 and tune really compliment each other. JB4 will allow you to push it to its limited while you use the tune to make the necessary adjustments to the parameters.

That's pretty much how it was put by BMS.

On the other hand, if you don't push it too hard, I know plenty of people happy with the map 2 on their JB4 with no issues.

[allmotor_2000]

Agree - finding that combination is the key :-)

[m5james]

I agree...for $650 shipped I got lifetime tunes, an AEM wideband and an OBDII dongle called an iTSX...for my F150 Harley Davidson. Email tuning has allowed me to surpass 600hp on a built motor with a larger KB2.3 supercharger. I have avoided meth on that truck as well, but it sounds like ultimately I have no choice on either vehicle.

As I've said before, I'll never to get to your guys power levels, but it'd be nice to push past the standard levels of the average X5M owner, but not many are doing it. Modding in general causes premature wear, but that's not why we do it. I still don't know if I should install the ESS tune that'll be here tomorrow or just get the JB4, see if I can even make it work with the stock tune and go from there.

[m5james]

Originally Posted by allmotor_2000

ESS tune works well as advertised. If someone pushes things further than advertised they may have other issues. Don't fall prey to rumors.

Why'd you remove yours then? ESS issue or JB4 and ESS combined issue?

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by m5james

I've read about it lightly, but the F85 X5M is more like the F10 M5 S63TU vs the E70 X5M/X6M S63 (different turbos, headers, intake, injectors, no Valvetronic, etc) so I'm not surprised that it's got better output.

I agree about tune piggybacks, but then again Manhart is a piggyback. It's my understanding the JB4 and BCM is needed due to lack of options.

Manhart stage 1 is a piggyback. All higher stages is NOT a piggyback but a flash tune on the DME.

Reason stage 1 is piggyback is due to emissions certification. Makes that process much easier when you can use a piggyback that does not interfere with factory settings during the test cycle. This is legal since the piggyback also acts similar in real world driving as it would on the dyno (unlike VW which detects testing and switches to a different setting). It's probably considered what the media calls cycle beating since you adapt the piggyback to the test cycle and add fuel and boost outside the test cycle. What VW did was cycle cheating since those settings only showed up while on a dyno and not in the real world...

[TheHouseWon]

Bumping because this thread contains loads of good info.