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      05-18-2013, 08:39 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSanto View Post
Point is its the next model Year. Sure I don't mind comp packs or updates. But a year later? This is an automobile not an iPhone.

In the M3 it was actually the 4th MY.
It isn't a year later for the rest of the world and the automobile industry can update whenever they so wish, there isn't a rule to state how long before they should; just look at the GT-R, people still buy them despite the yearly changes.
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      05-18-2013, 08:46 PM   #24
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Wait wait wait! I'm sorry but if BMW makes an M5/M6 then it should be a balls to the walls badass beast from the get go. No competition package nonsense. This should all be included and part of the M5/M6 straight off the floor. My opinion and I'm sticking to it. Church!
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      05-18-2013, 08:50 PM   #25
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M6 is the M to die for. A true driver car.
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      05-18-2013, 08:53 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Phil335 View Post
Wait wait wait! I'm sorry but if BMW makes an M5/M6 then it should be a balls to the walls badass beast from the get go. No competition package nonsense. This should all be included and part of the M5/M6 straight off the floor. My opinion and I'm sticking to it. Church!
It's called progress, M probably made the M5 the best they could given the development timeframe, but that doesn't mean improvements can't be made down the line. Just look at the Bugatti Veyron, I highly doubt VW didn't go "balls out" when they made it, yet so many updates were made since then.
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      05-18-2013, 09:07 PM   #27
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      05-18-2013, 09:20 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlhj83 View Post
It's called progress, M probably made the M5 the best they could given the development timeframe, but that doesn't mean improvements can't be made down the line. Just look at the Bugatti Veyron, I highly doubt VW didn't go "balls out" when they made it, yet so many updates were made since then.
How do you figure that is progress? BMW has the means and technology to put this car out on it's debut. These cars are thought up, drawn up, designed and tested years in advance. They nave a bigger timeframe then you think. I just read article by a designer from another manufacturer that said "majority of the designs you see on the road now were thought up 7 years ago". It's called marketing! How many special versions and competition packages were released for the E34 M5 (Not counting the Winkelhock and Cecotto Drivers Editions) E39 M5 or E60 M5? With BMW's sales and profits going up up and away they figured "Here's another chance to add a premium option that could add more profit and possibly grab the attention of current F10 M5 owners that need the latest and greatest". Plus using Bugatti as an example is a horrible comparison. They have one model, the Veyron. It has no heritage and no meaning like the M5 regardless of its performance and exclusivity. Regardless of how many variants they have of it. Marketing at it's best.
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      05-18-2013, 09:31 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil335 View Post
How do you figure that is progress? BMW has the means and technology to put this car out on it's debut. These cars are thought up, drawn up, designed and tested years in advance. They nave a bigger timeframe then you think. I just read article by a designer from another manufacturer that said "majority of the designs you see on the road now were thought up 7 years ago". It's called marketing! How many special versions and competition packages were released for the E34 M5 (Not counting the Winkelhock and Cecotto Drivers Editions) E39 M5 or E60 M5? With BMW's sales and profits going up up and away they figured "Here's another chance to add a premium option that could add more profit and possibly grab the attention of current F10 M5 owners that need the latest and greatest". Plus using Bugatti as an example is a horrible comparison. They have one model, the Veyron. It has no heritage and no meaning like the M5 regardless of its performance and exclusivity. Regardless of how many variants they have of it. Marketing at it's best.
Some of it will of course be marketing (which isn't new) but others will be technical progress given a longer period of development. M may very well have had all the Comp Pack upgrades planned before the release of the first model year M5, but may not have tested it sufficiently - why else were they doing so much testing of the Comp Pack that we have seen over the past months in spy photos? Would it not have been financially wiser to complete testing during the development of the F10 M5, rather than wait till after the initial release of the F10 M5? This clearly shows that the Comp Pack upgrades had a longer gestational period.

Or to put it the other way, if it was purely marketing, they would have finished development long ago and wouldn't have needed to do the recent testing of the Comp Pack. Sure, some may say M could have done it to invoke interest through intrigue, but, majority of buyers don't trawl though sites like Bimmerpost to know that M are developing an updated model.

Last edited by mlhj83; 05-18-2013 at 09:43 PM..
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      05-18-2013, 09:49 PM   #30
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that is very un-competition, un-aggressive wheels right there
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      05-18-2013, 09:56 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by i001947
M6 is the M to die for. A true driver car.
Uh, what? M6 is an impressive car and all, but it weighs over 2 tons, not exactly what you want in a true driver's car. Even the M3, as much as I love mine, has gotten a bit portly.
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      05-18-2013, 10:03 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlhj83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil335 View Post
Wait wait wait! I'm sorry but if BMW makes an M5/M6 then it should be a balls to the walls badass beast from the get go. No competition package nonsense. This should all be included and part of the M5/M6 straight off the floor. My opinion and I'm sticking to it. Church!
It's called progress, M probably made the M5 the best they could given the development timeframe, but that doesn't mean improvements can't be made down the line. Just look at the Bugatti Veyron, I highly doubt VW didn't go "balls out" when they made it, yet so many updates were made since then.
No, its called BMW dropped the ball on the M5. Then they realized they screwed up and that they could make a profit off of the correction of their screw up.
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      05-18-2013, 10:10 PM   #33
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What's up with them wheels. It's really lame.
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      05-18-2013, 10:12 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by bimmerjph View Post
No, its called BMW dropped the ball on the M5. Then they realized they screwed up and that they could make a profit off of the correction of their screw up.
Of course, M could have and should have made the M5 better than they originally did, but everything in hindsight is always clearer. Screwed up would be taking it a bit far, I'm no M5 fanatic, but clearly all the reputable reviews have all been highly favourable of the initial production F10 M5.
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      05-18-2013, 10:19 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlhj83 View Post
Of course, M could have and should have made the M5 better than they originally did, but everything in hindsight is always clearer. Screwed up would be taking it a bit far, I'm no M5 fanatic, but clearly all the reputable reviews have all been highly favorable of the initial production F10 M5.
Part of my anger is that my father ordered his car in early 12, finally received it in sept/oct of 12, only to have a comp package released 8 months later?

I bought an 09 E92 M3 in october of 08...it didn't hurt my feelings that october of '10 i would have been able to get a comp package. Two years is a lot of time. They really just rushed this in my opinion, and all the suspension adjustments I have to believe is brought on by the negative response of journalists.
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      05-18-2013, 10:20 PM   #36
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"New hydraulic rack-and-pinion steering with the M-specific Servotronic function with A MORE DIRECT PROGRAMMING to improve agility during cornering"

Does this mean a return to the older hydraulic steering rack (HPS)? Isn't this a step backward in terms of technology (though a step forward in steering feel)?

Wonder if this admits defeat from BMW that EPS can never match road feedback of HPS. Not good....
These cars already have Hydraulic Power steering. They have not offered EPS on an M car, at least not as of 2013.
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      05-18-2013, 10:25 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlhj83 View Post
Some of it will of course be marketing (which isn't a new) but others will be technical progress given a longer period of development. M may very well have had all the Comp Pack upgrades planned before the release of the first model year M5 but may yet not have tested it sufficiently - why else were they doing so much testing of the Comp Pack that we have seen over the past months in spy photos? Would it not have been financially wiser to complete testing during the development of the F10 M5, rather than wait till after the initial release of the F10 M5? This clearly shows that the Comp Pack upgrades had a longer gestational period.

Or to put it the other way, if it was purely marketing, they wouldn't have needed to do the recent testing of the Comp Pack. Sure, some may say M could have done it to invoke interest through intrigue, but, majority of buyers don't trawl though sites like Bimmerpost to know that M are developing an updated model.
Boy you British people are unyielding but I'm pretty sure we're worse. Lol! Joking around. With BMW I just don't buy it. BMW has mastered the art of making a great product and then right after you buy it they release a better version of the same thing you just bought. It's a strategy, a business and marketing strategy. Every company does it. My point is that if the "M" model is your Motorsport brand and top of the line catagory then customers shouldnt have to worry about a new package that makes the car better 6 months to a year after they just bought what they thought was "The Best". Like offering a rebranded Akra Exhaust for $8k that should have originally came on the car. I'll tell you one thing though. You would be surprised how many people go to these sites and the dealership to get info on what might be coming out. When word of the 1M came out it was nonstop. Lets just say I deal with it first hand daily
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      05-18-2013, 10:31 PM   #38
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No, its called BMW dropped the ball on the M5. Then they realized they screwed up and that they could make a profit off of the correction of their screw up.
Ah! Someone that sees it from my point of view and I couldn't agree more. The current M5 is a fantastic car. I know it from personal experience but customers shouldn't have to pay for a "package" that makes it the way it should have come from the release. I remember the E39 M5, it was perfection right out of the bag. Raw, fast, a real European muscle car and I personally think its one of the best 5 series ever made to this day.
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      05-18-2013, 10:34 PM   #39
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Boy you British people are unyielding but I'm pretty sure we're worse. Lol! Joking around. With BMW I just don't buy it. BMW has mastered the art of making a great product and then right after you buy it they release a better version of the same thing you just bought. It's a strategy, a business and marketing strategy. Every company does it. My point is that if the "M" model is your Motorsport brand and top of the line catagory then customers shouldnt have to worry about a new package that makes the car better 6 months to a year after they just bought what they thought was "The Best". Like offering a rebranded Akra Exhaust for $8k that should have originally came on the car. I'll tell you one thing though. You would be surprised how many people go to these sites and the dealership to get info on what might be coming out. When word of the 1M came out it was nonstop. Lets just say I deal with it first hand daily
Sure, we would all like all our favourite brands to make products that are at their best and remain their best for sometime to make ourselves feel good about the products we buy, but unfortunately reality is far from it.

I have no doubt that there are a lot of people out there who are in the know when it comes to upcoming products, but I'm willing to bet that a larger proportion don't; the enthusiasts have always and will always be a smaller proportion.
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      05-18-2013, 10:35 PM   #40
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If they were going to do a Competition Package, they should have made it like an AMG-Black car. With this package, everything other than the ceramic brakes and the ugly wheels should be standard.
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      05-18-2013, 10:39 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSanto View Post
Part of my anger is that my father ordered his car in early 12, finally received it in sept/oct of 12, only to have a comp package released 8 months later?

I bought an 09 E92 M3 in october of 08...it didn't hurt my feelings that october of '10 i would have been able to get a comp package. Two years is a lot of time. They really just rushed this in my opinion, and all the suspension adjustments I have to believe is brought on by the negative response of journalists.
You have just proved my point 100%. How do you tell your customer that just ordered an M5 8 months ago that a better version of the car he waited 2 months for just came out. Make the car that way right from the get go, the best because when you purchase the M brand you expect nothing less. That's why
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      05-18-2013, 10:46 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Phil335 View Post
You have just proved my point 100%. How do you tell your customer that just ordered an M5 8 months ago that a better version of the car he waited 2 months for just came out. Make the car that way right from the get go, the best because when you purchase the M brand you expect nothing less. That's why
Quite frankly BMW is run by marketing. They just want to nickle and dime you rather than making the best car they can.

I would love to see Lexus or Audi start delivering RWD cars to compete with M.
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      05-18-2013, 10:48 PM   #43
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      05-18-2013, 10:51 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil335 View Post
How do you figure that is progress? BMW has the means and technology to put this car out on it's debut. These cars are thought up, drawn up, designed and tested years in advance. They nave a bigger timeframe then you think. I just read article by a designer from another manufacturer that said "majority of the designs you see on the road now were thought up 7 years ago". It's called marketing! How many special versions and competition packages were released for the E34 M5 (Not counting the Winkelhock and Cecotto Drivers Editions) E39 M5 or E60 M5? With BMW's sales and profits going up up and away they figured "Here's another chance to add a premium option that could add more profit and possibly grab the attention of current F10 M5 owners that need the latest and greatest". Plus using Bugatti as an example is a horrible comparison. They have one model, the Veyron. It has no heritage and no meaning like the M5 regardless of its performance and exclusivity. Regardless of how many variants they have of it. Marketing at it's best.
I agree that we shouldn't underestimate how long it takes to redesign and source new things into new production. It is probably difficult/very expensive to make big progress in a short amount of time with such car products. It better have been planned well ahead to be cost effective. And I agree such planning would typically have been done by a marketing department.

But lets look at the "improvements", actually most of them could have been done a few months before the launch. They are simply software changes:
  1. Power increase by 11kW (15HP) to 423kW (575 HP) - Programming
  2. Stiffer stabilizer (anti-roll) bars - Simple upgrade which trades comfort for sportiness
  3. Stiffer and lower suspension (shocks and springs) (10mm lower then standard M5/M6) - Simple upgrade which trades comfort for sportiness
  4. Stiffer front axle bushings - OK, nice I guess...
  5. Active M Differential with a unique tune for the competition package for improved traction - Programming
  6. New hydraulic rack-and-pinion steering with the M-specific Servotronic function with A MORE DIRECT PROGRAMMING to improve agility during cornering - Programming
  7. M Dynamic mode (MDM) of DSC tuned with higher thresholds of intervention - Programming
  8. New 20" M light alloy wheels - Not even an upgrade... and why aren't they forged anyway?
  9. Sport exhaust with black chrome tips - Not even an upgrade
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