07-26-2012, 11:29 PM | #287 | |
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07-26-2012, 11:29 PM | #288 | ||
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Fixed for accuracy.
If you want to compare your country to the ones with higher gun fatality rates that are complete, chaotic messes, be my guest. Quote:
It has been suggested that guns help prevent violent crime, but there has been no mention of homicide rates or gun homicide rates like I've displayed here. Quote:
The US has greater than 400% more intentional gun homicides than every western, democratic country excluding Mexico. This of course isn't relevant and doesn't point towards this being a problem unique to US society. |
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07-26-2012, 11:53 PM | #289 | |
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http://thepoliticsofdebt.com/2008/04...ntry-on-earth/ And most of our violence revolves around the drug trade...the western European countries generally have permissive drug laws.... I would love to watch the homicide rate fall with the decriminalization of the drug trade....just one more reason to legal drug...less violence
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07-27-2012, 09:01 AM | #290 |
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I still think increased gun control is the answer, I think most people here agree. I'm NOT saying guns should be illegal, but I'm not saying our system is perfect either.
IMO you'd have to be crazy to honestly think banning guns would solve any problems, and equally crazy to think that everything is fine the way it is now. |
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07-27-2012, 10:02 AM | #291 | |
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Not saying there're no opportunities for improvements, but I'd like to hear at least few realistic ones. |
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07-27-2012, 12:45 PM | #292 | |
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Or, look at Timothy McVeigh. He killed 168 people, without a gun at all. He constucted an explosive using ingredients that are relatively easy to find and unregulated for the most part. People are the problem. Guns, cars, fertilizer, none of that stuff harms anyone just sitting there. Rather than focus on regulation of guns, let focus on regulation of PEOPLE. The scariest thing I have heard about this whole episode is the reaction of the shooters mother. She wasn't like most mothers "oh, that cant be my Jimmy, he wouldnt hurt a fly". Instead, it was "you have the right person". This was after being woke up in the middle of the night by a phone call, long before the event became common knowledge. http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/aurora...ry?id=16818889 The woman, contacted at her home in San Diego, spoke briefly with ABC News and immediately expressed concern her son may be involved in the shooting death of at least 12 people overnight. "You have the right person," she said, apparently speaking on gut instinct. "I need to call the police... I need to fly out to Colorado." Holy shit ! She should be held accountable, and charged with something. That is where the system is failing. I mean, I get that a mother may not want to throw her kid under the bus, but shit, he shot 70 people here. The death count could have been a lot higher. The shooter himself could have been killed, you think if she didnt give a rats ass about those innocents, she'd at least care about her own kid and get him help before anything happened. |
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07-27-2012, 01:30 PM | #293 | ||
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Ok, forget Norway, how about Germany? Just a couple month ago:
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07-27-2012, 02:23 PM | #294 | |
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The firearm homicide column is per 100,000 residents and the gun quantity is per 100 residents. That means that each gun is responsible for .009 homicides in El Salvador. Apply that to the US and each gun is responsible for .00005 homicides. Also, my point is that the european countries don't have the lowest gun totals but have very low homicide rates. Where as many of the countries with very little guns totals have much higher firearm homicide rates. If you add a "Homicides per gun" column and rank the countries based on that, the US falls in at number 41 on a list of 65 countries. I'll post that chart later. Gotta get back to work and make some moeney to pay for all that ammo.
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07-27-2012, 02:33 PM | #295 | |
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I believe she was woken up middle of the night...forget how the exact transcript goes, but they said are you XXXXX, and she said yes. And they asked for a statement, and she did not know what they were talking about, and the briefly said something about a shooting and then asked her "Do you have a son named XXXXX that lives in Colorado? To which she responded "yes you have the right person" referring to herself. Think for a minute how confused you would be if woken up at 3 in the morning and questioned like that. This was twisted by the media for a story. |
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07-27-2012, 03:40 PM | #296 |
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Perfect example was Timothy McVeigh as mentioned earlier. Not a single gun used.
I'll keep my guns for hunting and defending my family if need be.
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07-27-2012, 03:40 PM | #297 | |
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That's only meant to be an example. Also before anyone says it, [again] I know this wouldn't stop anything like Aurora or Columbine. It would however, have the potential to stop some crimes of passion. Anyone arguing that someone who wants to ie. kill his wife, would just go get a gun illegally, isn't thinking it out. The average person has no idea who to call to get an illegal firearm. Should mags be limited to a certain amount of ammunition? Probably, but I don't know what that number should be. There are tons of factors, and someone with access to more data than me should be making the decisions. Any numbers or specifics I give you are totally arbitrary, but I know there are changes that could be made that could help. I'll just respond to the rest of your points. Your right, assault weapons are for the most part controlled now, and I'm not arguing that the govt ban any of the firearms currently available. No need to diagnose crazy, just don't allow people with x,y,z mental disorder to buy guns. I honestly have no idea how this is currently handled so I can't really comment too much. Control large ammo purchases? No, that seems rather pointless for the reasons you've already stated as well as very expensive. I'm a huge gun enthusiast, and changes like this would be a bummer. However, I don't feel it's an infringement on my rights. I enjoy the right to bear arms, and am glad that right is regulated for my safety.
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07-27-2012, 05:05 PM | #298 | |
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I was gonna retract my suggestion that his mother should take some blame, but then I thought about it some more. Can anyone say she clearly raised a fine, well-adjusted young man ? Why aren't people crying out for more regulation to be allowed to become a parent? As it is today, anyone who is biologically capable of getting impregnated, and carrying the fetus to term gets to try and raise children. You literally have to jump thru more hoops (from a registration standpoint) to get a f*ing library card. |
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07-27-2012, 05:07 PM | #299 | |
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I think we should impose incredibly harsh penalties on those who use guns to commit crimes. Maybe give investigators up to, but not more than, one year to learn all that they can learn to prevent future crimes. Then put these animals in the ground, by firing squad. |
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07-27-2012, 05:24 PM | #300 | |
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Mag restrictions is sort of a wash. 10rnd cap magazines suck big time. At the same time I see no reason for those 50rnd glock magazines, even though I own one. However, I don't think magazine capacities will really do anything to curb violent crime. Its simply too easy to reload. Mental illness. At least in VA this is pretty much just a question that you answer while filling out your paperwork, which you just check yes or no that you have never been treated for a mental illness. If you check yes, no gun. Check No, good to go. They don't, and AFAIK can't search for this information to confirm you aren't lying. I fully believe that there should be some sort of flagging, but how you do that without infringing on patient privacy, I have no clue. I still believe the real problem today, is our culture and society. Kids are not being raised right, have no morals, are left to grow up watching TV and playing video games. BTW Im not saying video games caused this, simply that too many people let the TV become the babysitter and don't do their job as a parent. The same people that send their kid to school, expecting the public school system to babysit and raise their children. Whatever it is, there is something wrong with the upcoming generations (mine included). Just seems like there is less and less nice, honest, good people. |
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07-27-2012, 06:07 PM | #301 |
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The argument that "guns are not the problem, it's the people" is 100% correct. So why would you help them further by supplying them with the tools to kill? Epic failure argument.
I believe that every psychotic killer needs a "trigger" to push them over the edge, and activate that psychotic tendency to actually go out and commit massacres. Having a gun helps act as that trigger. |
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07-27-2012, 06:34 PM | #302 | ||
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The bold really hit the nail on the head, and unfortunately I see no reason to believe anything is about to change. In fact it seems like it is only getting worse. No amount of gun laws will have a big effect, until the mentality of our people changes. |
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07-27-2012, 06:36 PM | #303 | |
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The world is a big, complex, dangerous place. You can try and remove all the sharp edges so that people can continue to indiscriminately behave as though there are no consequences and still be safe from hurting themselves and others, or you can try and work on the people themselves. |
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07-27-2012, 06:47 PM | #304 | |
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07-27-2012, 06:50 PM | #305 | |
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Work on people? Isn't that something humanity has been trying to do for centuries? It sounds so nice and easy on paper, but potentially psychotic killers don't check themselves in for counseling. Supplying them with guns certainly don't help the situation. I acknowledge that prohibiting them doesn't solve the problem entirely, but it certainly does help. If Jimmy next door goes crazy one day, would you rather he come at you with a baseball bat or an assault rifle? |
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07-27-2012, 07:12 PM | #306 | |
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http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/27/justic...html?hpt=hp_t2 but the system is so broken, that the warning signs go un-heeded, and then horrible things happen. |
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07-27-2012, 07:13 PM | #307 | |
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07-27-2012, 10:35 PM | #308 |
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