RWD with this much HP? Meh.

[wzj519]

Originally Posted by BMWonlyZone

Sucks you regret! GC is a nice car. I have a new M5, don't regret it either!!

Had an F10 550, Liked that too!

The reason why i am feeling so bad is the 650gc has endless problem.
19000kms, I have been dealership 4 times, everytime they solved one problem and then I would get new one in two months.
Also, I do feel the 650gc does not suit my personality well. I just feel that is a car for the people older than my age. It is a gentleman's car.
I want a car can go really fast, but when I want to be relaxed, it can give me that kind of feeling too. Am I talking about M5 again?
I lose $30,000 in less than one year on the gc, and if I want to get the m5 my dealer is getting, I gonna pay another $40,000.
It really makes me feel bad.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by BMWonlyZone

OK OK OK!!!

HAHA. I knew this would get me some attention.

First, Get an Audi or MB over a BMW, no thanks! I am an admitted BMW Fanboy. 14 new BMW's at 42yrs old and more to come. Didn't even consider another marquee.

Next, I didn't say I hate it, nor did I say the car is bad, I just think it would be better with AWD. And I bet the future proves me correct on this. And I stand by what I said; as the 6 speed is not as good as a Double Clutch, IMO, AWD is also better than RWD in MOST (not all) situations when you get north of 400hp. It just makes sense to me unless you enjoy drifting.

PS. I think I will need tires in about 3 months at this rate!

Seems a strange choice to choose between either a new BMW or a marquee...

AFAIK this is a marquee:



Perhaps you meant marque, not marquee...

[BMWonlyZone]

Oh look! Mr. Europe is back to correct me.

Thanks for the help!

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by wzj519

The reason why i am feeling so bad is the 650gc has endless problem.
19000kms, I have been dealership 4 times, everytime they solved one problem and then I would get new one in two months.
Also, I do feel the 650gc does not suit my personality well. I just feel that is a car for the people older than my age. It is a gentleman's car.
I want a car can go really fast, but when I want to be relaxed, it can give me that kind of feeling too. Am I talking about M5 again?
I lose $30,000 in less than one year on the gc, and if I want to get the m5 my dealer is getting, I gonna pay another $40,000.
It really makes me feel bad.

Well this is why one has to be smart about what one buys. It's easy to piss money away on cars.

I pride myself on never having made a mistake in my choice of car, and also optimizing my depreciation exposure.

At this point your best move is to sell your car privately either on Bimmerpost or Bimmerfest or Autotrader. Then buy a used 2013 M5. That should hit your wallet far less. A used 2013 car if well kept is like new.

[Mbdurham17]

I have never understood any of the reviewers (or the OP) whining about rear wheel drive when a few years ago the M5 and BMWs in general were praised for being rear wheel drive and now apparently it seems to be the reason they lose comparison tests and people complain about it : if I had wanted AWD I would have bought something else. Sure it spins, breaks loose and is a little crazy but that's part of the appeal for me.

I haven't had a car this much fun to drive since my 1989 Saleen SSC which would be sideways at the drop of a hat and had no where near as much hp or tq

[wzj519]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

Well this is why one has to be smart about what one buys. It's easy to piss money away on cars.

I pride myself on never having made a mistake in my choice of car, and also optimizing my depreciation exposure.

At this point your best move is to sell your car privately either on Bimmerpost or Bimmerfest or Autotrader. Then buy a used 2013 M5. That should hit your wallet far less. A used 2013 car if well kept is like new.

I just realized stick with m gonna be the ultimate choice.
Yes, my SA also suggested in this way, selling the car privately and getting a 13 m5. Actually, they just got a 13 m5 with only 7300kms and the car got all options except b&o.
However, I just do not like to buy the used ones because I never could know exctly what did last owner do to the car.

Thanks for your opnion. Stealth.

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by wzj519

I just realized stick with m gonna be the ultimate choice.
Yes, my SA also suggested in this way, selling the car privately and getting a 13 m5. Actually, they just got a 13 m5 with only 7300kms and the car got all options except b&o.
However, I just do not like to buy the used ones because I never could know exctly what did last owner do to the car.

Thanks for your opnion. Stealth.

I wouldn't stress out too much about what previous owner did. These cars are meant to be driven. The key is to check the service history, and diagnostic data. See if there were any warranty claims.

You can also look for indicators car was well treated. Clearbra and extra oil changes are a great indicator.

Buying off a board member here is another good way of getting transparency. Look up their posts and see what they did and whether they had any issues.

[BMWonlyZone]

I figured I would be all alone with this Thread/Post.

Ok, so now that we got much of this out of our collective systems, it seems my fellow M5Post members think:

A) I can't drive and simply cannot appreciate the beauty of RWD
B) I bought the wrong car
C) Or, as my Eurotrash pal pointed out, I can't spell. This was really productive.

But, a few points to address each:

A) Not sure why it's assumed I have never been to performance school, as I have been, more than once (probably more than many of you). I was going to BMW driving events when they used to invite M owners to Skip Barber Driving School (there was no SC factory then; the invite actually came included in the owners manual of my early E36 M3 for example). So, sorry to burst the driver ignorance bubble, but I can drive. But my driving skill doesn't change the traction issue my car has. And I like RWD! Yep, I do!
B) I knew exactly what I was buying, and I would buy it again (actually lease). I didn't buy the wrong car, rather, I just pointed out that I think traction is a shortfall of the M5. This boils down to physics, not skill.
C) This one speaks for itself. I bet he can spell socialism with no problem!

It is not an attack on your mother to state the M5 could have a shortfall or two. I agree that it's the best car in its class (as are ALL BMW's), but that doesn't mean it's perfect. All I am saying is, again, that I mostly love this car. It is exceptional in so many ways, and I couldn't be more certain I picked the right car in the right color. But, the HP coming from this motor simply cannot be put to the ground effectively through the rear wheels alone in MY opinion. Is it fun? Yep. Is it exactly what most are probably looking for in a RWD car, could be. But that doesn't change the fact that the traction sucks and there are many real world situations where AWD would be superior. I have the choice of DSC CONSTANTLY intervening and dramatically reducing the performance of the car; or having to be on my game at every moment with DSC off or risk killing myself or the car.

I actually have a great idea!!! BMW marketing guys should think up some name for AWD, maybe they could call it "Active Dynamic Traction System" and we could all just say it's an "automated RWD". You know, kind of like my manual transmission that has no clutch pedal, and goes into drive, then shifts itself, and ultimately ends up in park. It's not automatic, it's an "automated manual"; right??

[Mbdurham17]

Originally Posted by BMWonlyZone

I figured I would be all alone with this Thread/Post.

Ok, so now that we got much of this out of our collective systems, it seems my fellow M5Post members think:

A) I can't drive and simply cannot appreciate the beauty of RWD
B) I bought the wrong car
C) Or, as my Eurotrash pal pointed out, I can't spell. This was really productive.

But, a few points to address each:

A) Not sure why it's assumed I have never been to performance school, as I have been, more than once (probably more than many of you). I was going to BMW driving events when they used to invite M owners to Skip Barber Driving School (there was no SC factory then; the invite actually came included in the owners manual of my early E36 M3 for example). So, sorry to burst the driver ignorance bubble, but I can drive. But my driving skill doesn't change the traction issue my car has. And I like RWD! Yep, I do!
B) I knew exactly what I was buying, and I would buy it again (actually lease). I didn't buy the wrong car, rather, I just pointed out that I think traction is a shortfall of the M5. This boils down to physics, not skill.
C) This one speaks for itself. I bet he can spell socialism with no problem!

It is not an attack on your mother to state the M5 could have a shortfall or two. I agree that it's the best car in its class (as are ALL BMW's), but that doesn't mean it's perfect. All I am saying is, again, that I mostly love this car. It is exceptional in so many ways, and I couldn't be more certain I picked the right car in the right color. But, the HP coming from this motor simply cannot be put to the ground effectively through the rear wheels alone in MY opinion. Is it fun? Yep. Is it exactly what most are probably looking for in a RWD car, could be. But that doesn't change the fact that the traction sucks and there are many real world situations where AWD would be superior. I have the choice of DSC CONSTANTLY intervening and dramatically reducing the performance of the car; or having to be on my game at every moment with DSC off or risk killing myself or the car.

I actually have a great idea!!! BMW marketing guys should think up some name for AWD, maybe they could call it "Active Dynamic Traction System" and we could all just say it's an "automated RWD". You know, kind of like my manual transmission that has no clutch pedal, and goes into drive, then shifts itself, and ultimately ends up in park. It's not automatic, it's an "automated manual"; right??

Wow you are old maybe that's why you need AWD joking. You started this thread expecting backlash? Now can't take it? If I wanted an AWD sedan I would have bought something else and you should have as well. Yes the next gen M5 will probably be AWD or at least as an option (hopefully) to keep up with the masses who only worry about 0-60 times. No AWD competition can keep up with the M5 around a track from any comparisons I have seen. As for me,no I don't track my car, but I had choices and I am happy with my choice shortcomings and all.

[BMWonlyZone]

I can take it dammit!!!!!

[PawnStar]

Randy Pobst in one of his reviews of the M6 at Laguna Seca said the car had trouble putting its massive power down. In another review it was said that the current M5/6 cars were an engine in search of a chassis. Seems to me, Mr. Pobst knows what he's talking about. But...for an average driver on an average public road going at an average speed on an average day, the car is just about average, fantastic war stories notwithstanding...

[URBAN LEGEND]

This thread is full of win.

[M5Rlz]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

Well this is why one has to be smart about what one buys. It's easy to piss money away on cars.

I pride myself on never having made a mistake in my choice of car, and also optimizing my depreciation exposure.

At this point your best move is to sell your car privately either on Bimmerpost or Bimmerfest or Autotrader. Then buy a used 2013 M5. That should hit your wallet far less. A used 2013 car if well kept is like new.

He can buy mine with laser jammers detector and BMS for 82

[bodonx]

Unlike all previous Ms, we should all agree this M5 power train overwhelms the chassis.

Instead of AWD, I prefer BMW not to follow HP war. It should keep the 500HP or less, RWD and focus on light-weight, great handling car.

I like F80 direction is going. They keep it at around 420HP.

[N.S.A]

Originally Posted by BMWonlyZone

OK OK OK!!!

HAHA. I knew this would get me some attention.

First, Get an Audi or MB over a BMW, no thanks! I am an admitted BMW Fanboy. 14 new BMW's at 42yrs old and more to come. Didn't even consider another marquee.

Next, I didn't say I hate it, nor did I say the car is bad, I just think it would be better with AWD. And I bet the future proves me correct on this. And I stand by what I said; as the 6 speed is not as good as a Double Clutch, IMO, AWD is also better than RWD in MOST (not all) situations when you get north of 400hp. It just makes sense to me unless you enjoy drifting.

PS. I think I will need tires in about 3 months at this rate!

I agree with you, I am came from a X6 5Oi, to X6M to an M3 I AM Familiar with Xdrive AWD. but I do not think it should be awd car as in only available in awd. but should be available as an option as a additional cost. Also I Have friends who traded their M5 in that had 6 speed manual because they hated it. M3 should never be awd. m5 I can see it as option as I said. But I like it rwd because it makes you a better driver.

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by BMWonlyZone

I figured I would be all alone with this Thread/Post.

Ok, so now that we got much of this out of our collective systems, it seems my fellow M5Post members think:

A) I can't drive and simply cannot appreciate the beauty of RWD
B) I bought the wrong car
C) Or, as my Eurotrash pal pointed out, I can't spell. This was really productive.

But, a few points to address each:

A) Not sure why it's assumed I have never been to performance school, as I have been, more than once (probably more than many of you). I was going to BMW driving events when they used to invite M owners to Skip Barber Driving School (there was no SC factory then; the invite actually came included in the owners manual of my early E36 M3 for example). So, sorry to burst the driver ignorance bubble, but I can drive. But my driving skill doesn't change the traction issue my car has. And I like RWD! Yep, I do!
B) I knew exactly what I was buying, and I would buy it again (actually lease). I didn't buy the wrong car, rather, I just pointed out that I think traction is a shortfall of the M5. This boils down to physics, not skill.
C) This one speaks for itself. I bet he can spell socialism with no problem!

It is not an attack on your mother to state the M5 could have a shortfall or two. I agree that it's the best car in its class (as are ALL BMW's), but that doesn't mean it's perfect. All I am saying is, again, that I mostly love this car. It is exceptional in so many ways, and I couldn't be more certain I picked the right car in the right color. But, the HP coming from this motor simply cannot be put to the ground effectively through the rear wheels alone in MY opinion. Is it fun? Yep. Is it exactly what most are probably looking for in a RWD car, could be. But that doesn't change the fact that the traction sucks and there are many real world situations where AWD would be superior. I have the choice of DSC CONSTANTLY intervening and dramatically reducing the performance of the car; or having to be on my game at every moment with DSC off or risk killing myself or the car.

I actually have a great idea!!! BMW marketing guys should think up some name for AWD, maybe they could call it "Active Dynamic Traction System" and we could all just say it's an "automated RWD". You know, kind of like my manual transmission that has no clutch pedal, and goes into drive, then shifts itself, and ultimately ends up in park. It's not automatic, it's an "automated manual"; right??

I have the M6 competition package , with SS DP , Mperformance exhaust and a Gruppe M intake so Im well over 600 HP . I have over 10,000 track miles on a supercharged Z4M and am a PCA open passing black /red driver ( I can drive pretty damn good ).
A few points .
1.) In MDM mode not using LC the M6 actually launches better / has a better 60ft time and 1/4 mile time and trap than my 2010 modded 600 hp AWD GTR not using LC . ( the GTR would bog down ) Yep that's right the Rwd car is faster . Not using LC the Best. 1/4 I had in my GTR was 11.6 @121 guess what it had traction problems even with AWD modded and still bogged on the start . Using my Vbox I've done. 11.4 @ 128 in my modded M6 in the same location / conditions not using LC ( how often in the real world do we LC everywhere or are at the drag strip . It's the best grip car mash and go that I've ever driven . It's easier to launch than my Z4M with 285 R comps !
2) from a roll the M6 is actually faster than the GTR was again bc of being RWD . It runs a 7.9 60-130 vs a 8.4 60-130 in my modded GTR .
3.) I sold the GTR bc no matter how much power I added or exhaust I installed it didn't sound great , and just wasn't fun to drive bc it wasn't rwd . I love counter steering , bleeding in just a little more throttle and feeling the chassis wiggle then grip a little more . The M6 gives me that , it's a damn blast to drive. !
4. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and has their own preferences , but this notion that AWD is a superior performance platform to RWD is a total pile of horseshit . On track a properly set up rwd car with aero is always faster than an AWD car given the same power to weight if driven by a professional. How many formula 1 cars are AWD ! I admit for most people AWD lets them be faster bc it covers up lack of skill , but it IS much less fun to drive no matter what ! And the whole point of owning a great car like this is to have FUN !!!!
George

[DrewM5]

[QUOTE=gmd2003;

4. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and has their own preferences , but this notion that AWD is a superior performance platform to RWD is a total pile of horseshit . [/QUOTE]

Where did the OP ever state that AWD is a superior platform to RWD? He's simply stated that, in his opinion, he thinks the M5 (not all cars and nothing about tracking) would benefit from AWD.

And I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion unless that opinion contradicts your determination as to what is an absolute truth. I love when folks say "everyone is entitled to their opinion, but if they don't agree with me, they are wrong!"

[Boss330]

It seems the OP have issues with my tongue in cheek comment about the difference between a marque and marquee, and has gone full attack on Europe again. I just wonder why he still finds it ok to drive a European car, built by socialists apparently... Isn't that supporting and funding us "socialists" over here???

Just kidding I just find it amusing

[Boss330]

[QUOTE=DrewM5]

Originally Posted by gmd2003;

4. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and has their own preferences , but this notion that AWD is a superior performance platform to RWD is a total pile of horseshit . [/QUOTE

Where did the OP ever state that AWD is a superior platform to RWD? He's simply stated that, in his opinion, he thinks the M5 (not all cars and nothing about tracking) would benefit from AWD.

And I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion unless that opinion contradicts your determination as to what is an absolute truth. I love when folks say "everyone is entitled to their opinion, but if they don't agree with me, they are wrong!"

He actually said that AWD, in his opinion, was better than RWD in most (not all) situations.

IMHO there are arguments for both AWD and RWD. The big difference between the F10 M5 and it's predecessors is it's torque which can make traction more of an issue than on previous generations.

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by Boss330

It seems the OP have issues with my tongue in cheek comment about the difference between a marque and marquee, and has gone full attack on Europe again. I just wonder why he still finds it ok to drive a European car, built by socialists apparently... Isn't that supporting and funding us "socialists" over here???

Just kidding I just find it amusing

Well clearly he isn't thinking straight.

[wzj519]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

I wouldn't stress out too much about what previous owner did. These cars are meant to be driven. The key is to check the service history, and diagnostic data. See if there were any warranty claims.

You can also look for indicators car was well treated. Clearbra and extra oil changes are a great indicator.

Buying off a board member here is another good way of getting transparency. Look up their posts and see what they did and whether they had any issues.

Thanks again Stealth. I do know some forum members' cars are definitely first option to puchase if I do not want to face the crapy financial and relibility issues.
However, I am located in Canada, purchasing from states would be kind of headache.
Also, I checked with 3 good BMW dealers, they do have the preowned 13 m5s with really low milege e.g. I found one MCB 13 m5 with black interior and it just has 6800kms right now, but those cars just don't have the option I want. If I am going with the m5, I need the full leather for sure (I have this in my 650gc). B&O speakers is also a must option for me. The most loaded m5 is the one I mentioned above, but it hust has the exclutive pkg and lacks of the other two.
However I figured out something right now. If I am going with the m5, I do not need the CCB and cP PKG actually, just order one would be a better option for me than taking the one I mentioned yesterday which is a frozen black limited edition.
Otherwise, I might go with the lci e63 amg. I just got some information back from my friend who works in the MB dealership, their trade in value for my 650gc is better than what BMW gave me. All I can say is BMW is really low balling me now especially the dealership where I purchased my GC from.

[clar]

Seems to me that the engine being too much for the chassis has been mentioned a lot on the F10 M5. That sounds to me to be rather unfair on the chassis. I feel it's not so much the chassis being overwhelmed. It's more like the engine is limited by the front engined rear drive layout. Physics is at work here, not the chassis.