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      10-14-2014, 11:28 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrsbmw View Post
A new M5 includes service in the price up to 50k miles. It also includes roadside assistance. The used car will need the repairs.

Ah well, when I was 31 I was driving a 1979 Volvo 264 with 135k miles on it. I bought it for $4k cash (1987) and set aside $1700 for repairs. I ended up having to put in a new transmission which I bought used at a junkyard for $400 and got the labor done for $700. Later I had to do a water pump the only other maintenance was oil. I traded the car in 1991 and still got $2200 for it even though it was 12 years old and had 160k miles.

The first nice new car I could call my own after I got married was the Volvo 960 I bought in 1993. I paid it off in two years and my 16 year old daughter totaled it in 1997. I really liked that car. Oh well, I rolled the insurance check into a down payment on the house I live in now. After a year of only having one car and 5 kids, I bought 3 year old Lexus LSXXX cars that came off lease. I had two of those in 10 years. These cars I have now are the most expensive and fun cars I have ever owned but I have a hole in the ground that pours out money so I can afford them for now.

I ended up with cancer at 50 after working my ass off for 25 years and running my own business in the pursuit of making more money. I was told not to make any plans beyond two years and that I had a 45% chance to live 18 months. It's been 8 years and I now have more money than I ever dreamed of having when I worked and I made more money last year than my business ever grossed in any year and it's best year was 2001 when we grossed $1.3m. The most I ever paid myself in my business was $248k and my wife made $120k that year so we did really well and my family sold some timber and my total income that year was $658k on which I paid $165k income tax.

I never thought of owning a bmw or porsche back then and I was at the top of my career. You just never know which way the ball will bounce. I beat the cancer and got richer than I ever thought I could be. My family had no idea we had oil in West Texas or that our East Texas land would have oil under it. We are not in the area of the East Texas field, we just sell timber. It makes money but not like oil and gas does so that is how I can afford these cars. If the oil stuff hadn't happened, I would still be driving my 2010 535i with Dinan Stage 2 and my wife would be holding onto the 2013 X5m.

I just hope the price of oil holds up and we get a few more wells out there in the Wolfcamp.

What a story. Made me sit down and think about where I am at in life and what I should be doing.

Your story qualifies for another Breaking Bad spin off. Congrats on beating cancer and living your life to the fullest.
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      10-16-2014, 06:36 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by TasteOfPower View Post
Im a software dev. Make about 120K right now. But Im going to have to settle for a 2010 or 2009 M5. Smh. I know I can afford something later but I have super bad credit...so I figure I would just do the 2010 for now and trade it later for a newer one. But I was trying to find atleast a 2011 somewhere. Seems impossible.
WOW, you're running your budget pretty tight.
I guess living in NC gives some room in your budget - good rule of thumb usually is 30% home, 30% living expenses, and 30% for savings/fudge factor.

With a 335i and a monthly payment of $780 (financed $42k), I can't imagine an M5 anytime soon (unless it was used and price in the $50k range).
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      10-16-2014, 06:41 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodonx View Post
Simple rule:

Do you have > $1M liquid that can generate income to cover daily living cost?

If no, then start with 3 series first
Even if you DO, M5 is pretty steep.

Your monthly income is more important than your liquid net worth since most people finance cars - if you buy an M5 cash and have ~1M liquid with interest rates this low, probably doesn't make sense.
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      10-16-2014, 08:14 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shivaswrath
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodonx View Post
Simple rule:

Do you have > $1M liquid that can generate income to cover daily living cost?

If no, then start with 3 series first
Even if you DO, M5 is pretty steep.

Your monthly income is more important than your liquid net worth since most people finance cars - if you buy an M5 cash and have ~1M liquid with interest rates this low, probably doesn't make sense.
Never put liquid in CD.

Stock market can easily give avg $80-100k/year from $1M. More than enough to finance/lease M5.
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      10-17-2014, 06:54 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodonx
Quote:
Originally Posted by shivaswrath
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodonx View Post
Simple rule:

Do you have > $1M liquid that can generate income to cover daily living cost?

If no, then start with 3 series first
Even if you DO, M5 is pretty steep.

Your monthly income is more important than your liquid net worth since most people finance cars - if you buy an M5 cash and have ~1M liquid with interest rates this low, probably doesn't make sense.
Never put liquid in CD.

Stock market can easily give avg $80-100k/year from $1M. More than enough to finance/lease M5.
Not always. People live in a myth that stocks are good for a 10% return always. We live in times of med - high volatility. Domestic Indexes have erased any gains for 2014 already and are in red for the year. Unless you know how to play vol, fixed income and options, don't assume anything.
Alternate investments are not golden either this year unless you were lucky enough (and bulge enough) to invest with mega buy side funds.
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      10-17-2014, 12:03 PM   #94
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There was a post somewhere I read "what would you tell your younger self if you could give one piece of advice". Well I'm in my 30's now and if I can go back to my teens or even 20's, I would tell myself to stop wasting money on useless mods and cars!!!!!

I didn't have the right friends in my 20's and wasted all my money on R/C cars and later real cars spending all my hard earned money on crap that would never materialize into anything besides a money pit. Now in my 30's I have significant properties in 4 states and still trying to do more with house flips now. The problem is you need cash to make money and I wish I had more liquid cash saved up back then to use now.....

You sound like a younger guy so my advice would be:

a) Fix your credit however you can
b) SAVE SAVE SAVE
c) Buy a used m3 or whatever you can afford and just be happy
d) Leave frugally and save for investments....you never know what opp might pop up down the road and if you don't have money, you will miss that money train


Cars come and go so unless it's money you can throw away and not care about, then don't put your cash into a money pit.
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      10-17-2014, 10:57 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90potentialbuyer
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodonx
Quote:
Originally Posted by shivaswrath
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodonx View Post
Simple rule:

Do you have > $1M liquid that can generate income to cover daily living cost?

If no, then start with 3 series first
Even if you DO, M5 is pretty steep.

Your monthly income is more important than your liquid net worth since most people finance cars - if you buy an M5 cash and have ~1M liquid with interest rates this low, probably doesn't make sense.
Never put liquid in CD.

Stock market can easily give avg $80-100k/year from $1M. More than enough to finance/lease M5.
Not always. People live in a myth that stocks are good for a 10% return always. We live in times of med - high volatility. Domestic Indexes have erased any gains for 2014 already and are in red for the year. Unless you know how to play vol, fixed income and options, don't assume anything.
Alternate investments are not golden either this year unless you were lucky enough (and bulge enough) to invest with mega buy side funds.
No, it's not a myth. Regardless recession or not, any long term investment will give 8-10%/yr avg.

Take the data from the last 80-90 yrs.

The key word is average. You might get +40% last year. You might get -10% this year.

Long term avg will still be 8-10%/yr including dividend.
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      10-21-2014, 10:32 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loft23 View Post
Of that $120k are you contributing the max to 401k or company ESPP? I contribute the max in both, guaranteed 15% on my money with ESPP, and also receive RSU stock grants yearly. With my net income, after all these deductions, I need to not sacrifice quality of life. I need to dine out, enjoy time with friends, travel, pay my mortgage and bills, and have money for the unaccounted for expense. What ever is left, that's play money or M5 money. I'm done buying nice cars for now and my goal is to buy a bigger house/condo and rent my current one for $4,500/month.

I manage two teams of software engineers btw. What these kids make today is over 2x what I made when I graduated. They're all leasing BMWs straight out of school.
What software company?
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      11-22-2014, 10:24 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodonx
Quote:
Originally Posted by E90potentialbuyer
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodonx
Quote:
Originally Posted by shivaswrath
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodonx View Post
Simple rule:

Do you have > $1M liquid that can generate income to cover daily living cost?

If no, then start with 3 series first
Even if you DO, M5 is pretty steep.

Your monthly income is more important than your liquid net worth since most people finance cars - if you buy an M5 cash and have ~1M liquid with interest rates this low, probably doesn't make sense.
Never put liquid in CD.

Stock market can easily give avg $80-100k/year from $1M. More than enough to finance/lease M5.
Not always. People live in a myth that stocks are good for a 10% return always. We live in times of med - high volatility. Domestic Indexes have erased any gains for 2014 already and are in red for the year. Unless you know how to play vol, fixed income and options, don't assume anything.
Alternate investments are not golden either this year unless you were lucky enough (and bulge enough) to invest with mega buy side funds.
No, it's not a myth. Regardless recession or not, any long term investment will give 8-10%/yr avg.

Take the data from the last 80-90 yrs.

The key word is average. You might get +40% last year. You might get -10% this year.

Long term avg will still be 8-10%/yr including dividend.
+1!
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      11-22-2014, 11:51 PM   #98
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Well said

+5
Quote:
Originally Posted by ezmaass View Post
Income isn't the right measure - or at least a complete one. As mentioned, disposable income + assets is more like it. Where I live in Fairfield County, CT (NYC metro area suburbs essentially), it's common for people to make $200k, $300k, $400k, and $500k - and then much, much more when you get to guys like all of the hedge fund managers, bank executives, etc. But your typical 4-person family with an income of $300k in the area? Chances are they also have a $1.5M mortgage. They shouldn't be buying M5's any more than the guy who's single, living in an apartment, and making $90k if you ask me.

But how people spend their money is a personal choice. From my perspective, it's wise to make sure you're thinking about your long-term goals - like retirement, education, etc - as a priority, though. If you're jeopardizing your future and making yourself a burden on your family or society (to pay your way when you're old and unable to earn a living) because you blew your earnings on an M5? That's not cool.

But it's also important to give younger guys some slack, too. I'm only 35 (I still feel young!), but I remember my 20's pretty clearly as they weren't long ago. I've always spent more on cars than I had to - and in my 20's, maybe more than I SHOULD have. It's not the end of the world as long as you're still looking out for your future. I have a 7-figure bank account, a very large six-figure income, plenty of retirement money, etc at this age now - but back when I was 24 or 25 and making around this guy's income, I absolutely blew $40k - $50k on a car. Granted, my credit was also solid and I WAS saving/investing, as well - my only issues with what I've heard from the OP.

You can't recapture your youth. So, I wouldn't advocate blowing your money and missing out on saving for the future - but I'd also say you need to live a little. Balancing the two is the key. To the OP, I'd suggest visiting a financial planner if you're not into investing yourself - just follow their advice and set your investments on autopilot if you must. But DO invest.
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      11-23-2014, 08:37 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrsbmw
Quote:
Originally Posted by E90potentialbuyer View Post
Well said. I am in finance and I make quite a few multiples higher than you. I don't have any loans except for a mortgage on a condo. I have a wife and a baby. I love cars and I love bmw's. I have never purchased a car >35k and all my cars have been a lot of fun to drive (1987 Honda Accord, 2001 325i, 2004 m3, 2009 335). I just turned 31 and I am finally looking at buying a M5 since we need a bigger car than a 3 and this is my excuse for getting a car of my dreams.

For you to be even thinking about buying a m5 at 120k annual salary is insane. Repairs on this car are quite expensive, but if you need to think about how to pay and when to service your car based on your budget, you are way over your head whether buying new or used. I have seen someone who bought a Ferrari 355 used because it was so cheap, but the moment you got in his car, it was clear he didn't belong in his car - his dash was lit up with warning lights since he could not to afford to service the car.

My 2 cents: buy a used car. Nothing wrong in buying even a used Non - luxury car like a Subaru, Mazda, golf gti etc. or buy new like a Mazda 3 etc.
A new M5 includes service in the price up to 50k miles. It also includes roadside assistance. The used car will need the repairs.

Ah well, when I was 31 I was driving a 1979 Volvo 264 with 135k miles on it. I bought it for $4k cash (1987) and set aside $1700 for repairs. I ended up having to put in a new transmission which I bought used at a junkyard for $400 and got the labor done for $700. Later I had to do a water pump the only other maintenance was oil. I traded the car in 1991 and still got $2200 for it even though it was 12 years old and had 160k miles.

The first nice new car I could call my own after I got married was the Volvo 960 I bought in 1993. I paid it off in two years and my 16 year old daughter totaled it in 1997. I really liked that car. Oh well, I rolled the insurance check into a down payment on the house I live in now. After a year of only having one car and 5 kids, I bought 3 year old Lexus LSXXX cars that came off lease. I had two of those in 10 years. These cars I have now are the most expensive and fun cars I have ever owned but I have a hole in the ground that pours out money so I can afford them for now.

I ended up with cancer at 50 after working my ass off for 25 years and running my own business in the pursuit of making more money. I was told not to make any plans beyond two years and that I had a 45% chance to live 18 months. It's been 8 years and I now have more money than I ever dreamed of having when I worked and I made more money last year than my business ever grossed in any year and it's best year was 2001 when we grossed $1.3m. The most I ever paid myself in my business was $248k and my wife made $120k that year so we did really well and my family sold some timber and my total income that year was $658k on which I paid $165k income tax.

I never thought of owning a bmw or porsche back then and I was at the top of my career. You just never know which way the ball will bounce. I beat the cancer and got richer than I ever thought I could be. My family had no idea we had oil in West Texas or that our East Texas land would have oil under it. We are not in the area of the East Texas field, we just sell timber. It makes money but not like oil and gas does so that is how I can afford these cars. If the oil stuff hadn't happened, I would still be driving my 2010 535i with Dinan Stage 2 and my wife would be holding onto the 2013 X5m.

I just hope the price of oil holds up and we get a few more wells out there in the Wolfcamp.
Glad to hear you've beaten your cancer. Congratulation..

I am truly inspired with your story of life.. Enjoy your beasts in good health..
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      11-23-2014, 10:33 AM   #100
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My '13 M5 i'm leasing for $625/mo. 36 months. That said i put some cash up front to keep a reasonable payment. I try to put enough cash up front and work a good enough deal to keep all my payments below $700. That way if things get bad i'm not stuck with a monster payment. Currently we have a '15 X5 35D @ $0/mo (one pay lease), '15 GL350bluetec@ $695/mo, '13 M5@$625/mo, '14 Raptor@ $545/mo. So total $1865/mo for $340,000 worth of cars. Not bad!!! I own my own business and the Raptor got us a 25k tax write-off as well. I feel we are way under our means with what we have and thats how i like to keep it. Our house is paid off and all we really have are car payments. At 120k/yr i would suggest maybe leasing an M3 with 8-10k cash up front and you could get a much better payment than a used M5.
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      11-23-2014, 11:24 AM   #101
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I'm going to break away from the pack. I for one do not feel that you need to be making $500-$600k a year to buy an M5. While it may be wise advice to not spend more than 18-20% of your annual salary on the purchase price of a car, it is by no means necessary. I would wager that the majority of M5 owners earn $150-$200k per year. It's all about what you are willing to compromise on. There are so many factors to consider, it is asinine to try to assign a salary to a car. For instance, I make $120k a year. I am about to pay cash for a $550k house. I'm about to pay cash for my wife a new Cayenne, and I'm about to pay cash for an M5 or M6 GC. At this point, I will be 100% debt free and can invest about 75% of my income. My wife is about to graduate with her masters in speech language pathology and be making $100k a year. 100% of which can be invested since we are living off 25% of my income. Even before all this, I was driving a 1M making $100k per year. You live once and it's not about who dies with the largest bank account. It's a balance between that and having a good time.
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      11-23-2014, 04:20 PM   #102
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      11-23-2014, 05:34 PM   #103
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-
Hi Soooma... how are you doing my friend?

It's interesting that this thread got alive again. I remember the days this thread was up and I was following the comments, but never commented. Today I want to post my comment on people in this thread. I want to comment on those are talking about the LOGIC that owning a +100K car needs to have over 600K income. To those who believe everybody has to have a good account, good credit, house, high income and ,... to be able to pay $1500 monthly for a 100K car and IF not then he will have miserable life WHEN he gets old! I completely agree with 99% of these sentences except that "IF" and that "WHEN"... Is there anybody here guarantee that we see the 60 or 70 or 80 birthday? what about if that "IF" never happens? Work hard, try to save money, get this, get that and "Don't drive your dream car" and wait until you get millionaire to drive your dream car IF and WHEN you get rich! And even if you get rich, then you may be at 80 years old... I personally, since there is no guarantee to live 80 years and because I really don't care to drive Ferrari or Toyota at that age, would like to drive M6 these days and will drive any super exotic car if I feel I want one day and my income is not even close to 600K

Life is too short! Don't F... yourself, but enjoy it as much as you can

OP, I know a guy who has his own business and has a six-figure income (over million dollar) and drives Prious! because he doesn't care about cars! He needs a car to go from his home to his work and come back. That's it!
If you are car enthusiast and enjoy driving a powerful car go for it! You don't need to get a brand new M5, but you can get a used F10 M5 with 60K and that's smart shopping!
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      11-23-2014, 06:25 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodonx
Quote:
Originally Posted by E90potentialbuyer
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodonx
Quote:
Originally Posted by shivaswrath
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodonx View Post
Simple rule:

Do you have > $1M liquid that can generate income to cover daily living cost?

If no, then start with 3 series first
Even if you DO, M5 is pretty steep.

Your monthly income is more important than your liquid net worth since most people finance cars - if you buy an M5 cash and have ~1M liquid with interest rates this low, probably doesn't make sense.
Never put liquid in CD.

Stock market can easily give avg $80-100k/year from $1M. More than enough to finance/lease M5.
Not always. People live in a myth that stocks are good for a 10% return always. We live in times of med - high volatility. Domestic Indexes have erased any gains for 2014 already and are in red for the year. Unless you know how to play vol, fixed income and options, don't assume anything.
Alternate investments are not golden either this year unless you were lucky enough (and bulge enough) to invest with mega buy side funds.
No, it's not a myth. Regardless recession or not, any long term investment will give 8-10%/yr avg.

Take the data from the last 80-90 yrs.

The key word is average. You might get +40% last year. You might get -10% this year.

Long term avg will still be 8-10%/yr including dividend.
That's the beauty of averages. You can take whatever time period you want to make the data look good for yourself and the point that you are trying to make. So if I may, look at what stocks returned from 2000 to 2010 - hint: it was called a lost decade. This is how a lot of short sellers get wiped out - they may have the right theory but it may take much much longer than they have the ability to withstand.

Live in the fallacy of 8-9% long term growth and we will chat in a few years and see how you did. Btw, still save up because the implied inflation from your 8-9% is going to wipe out most of any nominal gains you may thought you would have!
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