JB4 + Meth made 722whp

[allmotor_2000]

Originally Posted by AstonMartian777

I don't want to knock anyone, but all flashes are the same, they all use the same files from BR, if they tell you otherwise, it's a lie. Thanks !

Mostly yes but a little no in there. The maps are identical - explains why nobody can do more 22psi. However, some folks have slightly more control on other parameters such as DCT control, how to optimize the filling targets to get linear power, timing control etc.

I have flashed my ECU 14 times.... part of the optimization process. I can tell you each flash had a different observeable effect.

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

I wish I could remove the limiter with a JB4 but that is not as important as eliminating the CEL. For me personally, I still think it's too risky doing a Flash Tune the way everyone is doing it, although I personally know people who have had success with it. Some days I really wished I could just delete the Cold Start, every single day, my car starts earthquakes in the mornings with the straightpipes. But having the limiter removed is pretty much pointless in the Northeastern United States. Somewhere like Texas or Southern California, it would be much more useful.

What do you feel makes the flash risky? There are a bunch of ESS Flashed M5s on the road, your M5 shouldn't be any different.

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

What do you feel makes the flash risky? There are a bunch of ESS Flashed M5s on the road, your M5 shouldn't be any different.

I just don't like the idea of it. Doing things the way that Mercedes customers have been flash tuning their cars for years doesn't make me feel any better about it. It's like trying to crack a safe by destroying it instead of figuring out how to break the cipher on the locking mechanism and leave the safe in tact. I know that nobody ever broke the encryption on the S63tu's ECU and that's what bothers me. I was a long time ESS customer and used their flash tunes for years but that was back in the day when you could flash tune through the OBDII, way easier. I just don't anyone physically breaking open my ECU. Heck my car is even out of factory warranty and I still don't want my ECU broken into. So it's not a warranty thing for me either, it's just not the way I personally want to do business. I'm sure ESS has a great tune, but my ECU is going to remain 100% in tact for entire time I own my car. I'm not saying I don't trust them though, because I would. This new JB4 seems promising if I wanted more power, I'm still deciding if I should get it though.

[David 12]

I second the above post. I went through the piggyback tune with my 2007 335i and was one of the first to have the famed juice box tune. The car was still under warranty and I always had a spare set of tools handy in the event of a malfunction or dealer visit. I also installed a Procede tune on the car.

The gamechanger occurred when the Cobb flash tune was finally released. Very professional and even a novice could install through the obd port.

That is what I am waiting for the M5 platform!

At the same time, I would consider the current flash tune IF I lived near a shop that had the ability to perform the installation so I wouldn't have to ship my ecu's. I have very limited options in Omaha.

Dave

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by David 12

I second the above post. I went through the piggyback tune with my 2007 335i and was one of the first to have the famed juice box tune. The car was still under warranty and I always had a spare set of tools handy in the event of a malfunction or dealer visit. I also installed a Procede tune on the car.

The gamechanger occurred when the Cobb flash tune was finally released. Very professional and even a novice could install through the obd port.

That is what I am waiting for the M5 platform!

At the same time, I would consider the current flash tune IF I lived near a shop that had the ability to perform the installation so I wouldn't have to ship my ecu's. I have very limited options in Omaha.

Dave

We only need an hour to flash, most times DMEs are shipped back the same day they are received. Overnight shipping is available.

The idea of a handheld tuner is great, but Cobb has not released any new Flashloaders in quite some time or made any indication they will be offering anything for M-models.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

I just don't like the idea of it. Doing things the way that Mercedes customers have been flash tuning their cars for years doesn't make me feel any better about it. It's like trying to crack a safe by destroying it instead of figuring out how to break the cipher on the locking mechanism and leave the safe in tact. I know that nobody ever broke the encryption on the S63tu's ECU and that's what bothers me. I was a long time ESS customer and used their flash tunes for years but that was back in the day when you could flash tune through the OBDII, way easier. I just don't anyone physically breaking open my ECU. Heck my car is even out of factory warranty and I still don't want my ECU broken into. So it's not a warranty thing for me either, it's just not the way I personally want to do business. I'm sure ESS has a great tune, but my ECU is going to remain 100% in tact for entire time I own my car. I'm not saying I don't trust them though, because I would. This new JB4 seems promising if I wanted more power, I'm still deciding if I should get it though.

If they hadn't broken the encryption on the ECU we wouldn't have any flash tunes at all... Thing is they have to open the ECU and read the encryption/password directly from the chip. What they haven't managed to do is to break the OBD encryption to be able to flash via OBD...

[RPiM5]

Gents I was just communicating with the good folks over at BMS. From what I gather there is some great news and some not so great news.

The great news is that this new JB4 is going to be able to delete your CEL code if you are running catless downpipes. I asked them if there would be any interefence between the new JB4 and the BMS CAN CEL Delete Tool and they said that the JB4 will have an option to delete the CEL if you want.

The not so great news is that the BCM's won't be available for at least a few more weeks. They said to get the JB4 combined with the Stage 1 will yield no performance gains and that you need the BCM. So at least I'll have a few more weeks to decide if I want to pick this new JB4 up with the BCM. So far, it sounds like a good deal and I will probably do it. I mean, in theory you could be making around 800 crank horsepower for less than a $1,000 bucks from a tune. Where as most of the flash tuners want between $2,000 and $10,000 dollars for their tunes, most of which involve the laborious process of removing your ECU and mailing them in, whereby you can't drive your car for at least a couple of days.

The thing I like about the Stage 1 and JB4 is that you, the customer, can set how much boost you want and other stuff and also change it at home whenever you want. If I do get the JB4 and the BCM I guess I'll no longer need my BMS CAN CEL Delete Tool then. I wonder if I could still sell it for a $1,000 bucks. Lol!

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Gents I was just communicating with the good folks over at BMS. From what I gather there is some great news and some not so great news.

The great news is that this new JB4 is going to be able to delete your CEL code if you are running catless downpipes. I asked them if there would be any interefence between the new JB4 and the BMS CAN CEL Delete Tool and they said that the JB4 will have an option to delete the CEL if you want.

The not so great news is that the BCM's won't be available for at least a few more weeks. They said to get the JB4 combined with the Stage 1 will yield no performance gains and that you need the BCM. So at least I'll have a few more weeks to decide if I want to pick this new JB4 up with the BCM. So far, it sounds like a good deal and I will probably do it. I mean, in theory you could be making around 800 crank horsepower for less than a $1,000 bucks from a tune. Where as most of the flash tuners want between $2,000 and $10,000 dollars for their tunes, most of which involve the laborious process of removing your ECU and mailing them in, whereby you can't drive your car for at least a couple of days.

Just curious, where are you coming up with these prices?

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

Just curious, where are you coming up with these prices?

It was just a rough generalization as there are too many companies out there to know all of what they want to charge for a tune. Just recently a friend of mine wanted get a flash tune to simply remove the CEL because he was installing catless downpipes and was afraid of not being able to find a Unicorn BMS CAN CEL Delete Tool, but the company he went to said that they could give him a flash tune that only removes the CEL and nothing else but would still charge him $2,500 bucks. Most tuners I have talked to want to charge around $2,500 though. I only mentioned up to $10,000 grand for a tune because I heard stories back in the early days when companies over in Europe were charging something like $8,000 Euro for their ground breaking flash tunes. Even Performing Imports wanted to charge people $5,000 back in 2012 when the Americans first starting getting their M5's and M6's. Lol!

[combatbmw]

Can you send me your check light file in the can tool.
Need it, my can tool is set up for a 550i.

Thanks

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Gents I was just communicating with the good folks over at BMS. From what I gather there is some great news and some not so great news.

The great news is that this new JB4 is going to be able to delete your CEL code if you are running catless downpipes. I asked them if there would be any interefence between the new JB4 and the BMS CAN CEL Delete Tool and they said that the JB4 will have an option to delete the CEL if you want.

The not so great news is that the BCM's won't be available for at least a few more weeks. They said to get the JB4 combined with the Stage 1 will yield no performance gains and that you need the BCM. So at least I'll have a few more weeks to decide if I want to pick this new JB4 up with the BCM. So far, it sounds like a good deal and I will probably do it. I mean, in theory you could be making around 800 crank horsepower for less than a $1,000 bucks from a tune. Where as most of the flash tuners want between $2,000 and $10,000 dollars for their tunes, most of which involve the laborious process of removing your ECU and mailing them in, whereby you can't drive your car for at least a couple of days.

The thing I like about the Stage 1 and JB4 is that you, the customer, can set how much boost you want and other stuff and also change it at home whenever you want. If I do get the JB4 and the BCM I guess I'll no longer need my BMS CAN CEL Delete Tool then. I wonder if I could still sell it for a $1,000 bucks. Lol!

[Mr_M5Guy]

so if your stock.....should you get stage 1 and the JB4 upgrade? Im a little confused on what i need to maximize the horsepower.

[allmotor_2000]

Make sure you guys change your DCT clutch packs first. Car will NOT hold >22psi. Current flash tunes at 22psi are regulating torque. Once you have the BCM there is no regulation so clutch WILL slip.

Anybody thinking of >650whp and >650torque at the wheels needs an upgraded clutch.

Also, IMHO you need to change the timing curve and fuel/timing limiters when trying to push north of 800hp. Just controlling the wastegate and hoping the ECU thinking its 17psi while correcting for 23-24psi is your call. It's like this - why is it safe to only go +3psi on the S1 JB4? Why not +8 or +9? This is essentially what you are doing with the BCM. Also, you can't hit >23psi without meth. With the stock tune, AFR doesn't go below 12 until 5.5K. With direct injection maybe this doesn't matter. But when you are running 8-10psi more in the 3-5.5K range you will run 13.5-14 AFR at 22-23psi.

This is based on experience as I am the only one who has tried this many combinations to date on this platform that I know about. I personally didn't try raising boost with the BCM without all the safeguards of a 22psi flash map and meth and logged as many dyno pulls, hard runs and track time.

I hope others will try the other combo's and report back to the benefit of the forum members

[David 12]

allmotor, thank you for safely pushing the envelope and exploring the limits of performance for our platform. As you said, this will benefit any M5 owner that wants to improve performance.

Dave

[brad850csi]

I've got a few EAS dynos saved that show around 540hp and 500lbft at the wheels, then a few modded cars that are around 620-640hp, but the torque is quite different, one shows 535-545 across the runs and another 600lbft

I quite like the idea of keeping torque fairly flat and not too much higher than stock, but having it extend as far as possible, then make a bit more boost up top.

I'd much rather have the lower torque curve for drivetrain longevity - is this going to be possible with a JB4 and the BCM? Or what about upgraded turbos, keeping a lower level of torque through the rev range but keeping it flat the whole way to 6500rpm or so? Looking at your graphs allmotor, it should be possible to keep 550lbft at the wheels from 2750rpm to about 6500rpm or so if you were trying to limit torque in the midrange.

[allmotor_2000]

Originally Posted by brad850csi

I've got a few EAS dynos saved that show around 540hp and 500lbft at the wheels, then a few modded cars that are around 620-640hp, but the torque is quite different, one shows 535-545 across the runs and another 600lbft

I quite like the idea of keeping torque fairly flat and not too much higher than stock, but having it extend as far as possible, then make a bit more boost up top.

I'd much rather have the lower torque curve for drivetrain longevity - is this going to be possible with a JB4 and the BCM? Or what about upgraded turbos, keeping a lower level of torque through the rev range but keeping it flat the whole way to 6500rpm or so? Looking at your graphs allmotor, it should be possible to keep 550lbft at the wheels from 2750rpm to about 6500rpm or so if you were trying to limit torque in the midrange.

With the BCM you control boost - need a flash to control torque. So best bet is get a flash to tune the torque profile you want and BCM to increase top end - depends on the profile you want.

In any case with the JB4 you can control boost by gear so you can maximize torque that way as well. Depends if you are setting up for DD, drag, autox, roll-racing etc.

[13M5F10]

Finally got around to installing my JB4 upgrade kit. I know it's not much more power over the stage 1 but excited to drive tomorrow and play with the controls.

Hopefully BCM is out soon :-)

[JetBee]

noob question, can someone explain what BCM is ?

[JetBee]

And i have BMS piggyback, what is the difference between that and JB4?

[Andym3100k]

BCM: boost control Module
http://www.burgertuning.com/N63_JB4_upgrades.html

Isn't out yet so need to wait....

[6spdterror]

Originally Posted by JetBee

And i have BMS piggyback, what is the difference between that and JB4?

Was wondering the same thing. Is the BMS and JB4 piggybacks the same thing?

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by 6spdterror

Was wondering the same thing. Is the BMS and JB4 piggybacks the same thing?

Bms stands for burger motorsports which is the company that makes the jb4

[6spdterror]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

Bms stands for burger motorsports which is the company that makes the jb4

I figured that part but was just wondering if the JB4 was a completely different module or same thing different name