10-24-2013, 11:16 AM | #67 | |
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BMW has always been amazing at developing an amazing chassis and tuning suspension/steering so precisely that even if they were down on power to the competition they'd still be the obvious choice. Not just merc, but apparently Lexus has started swapping places with BM at least in the case of the new GS and new IS. both are great chassis, with good steering, and good suspension tuning compared to their respective BMW counterparts. their Drivetrains end up holding them back. Even caddy's ATS is claimed to have a better chassis than a 3 series.... that should never ever happen... a cadillac with a superior chassis to it's class rival bmw?? I've driven a few of the current gen bmws... and it's an unfortunate problem that hopefully only lasts this generation. I don't get a "special" feeling driving the current lineup (haven't driven Z4), as if it is something different from the competition. It could also be because the competition is just that much better now.
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10-24-2013, 11:32 AM | #68 |
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Did they just said they didn't like the M5 because it's too 'flat' around the corners? That it doesn't have body roll?
And they like the E63 for its artificial light steering? What the hell are they smoking?
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10-24-2013, 11:33 AM | #69 | |
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I have no problem switching to another brand if they truly have a better car.
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10-24-2013, 11:35 AM | #70 |
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Yep. Must be the good stuff.
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10-24-2013, 11:41 AM | #71 |
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Car & Driver also picked the E63 (along with the S6) over the M5 and had very similar conclusions on the two cars as well.
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10-24-2013, 12:12 PM | #72 | |
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The E63 is impressive. I would never buy one though. I don't like the styling, and the ergonomics don't appeal well to me. A regular automatic gearbox kills it for me too, just like with the RS7. I love being able to shift with either my hand on the shifter knob or the wheels paddles on the ///M-DCT and the way the DCT shifts are seemless smooth when you want it to be and rock hard in S3, and lighting quick. It feels so much more racecar to me in that context. Plus it still confuses me, as I think someone else already mentioned, how the new CLA45 AMG has a DCT and the new 2014 E63 AMG-S still has a regular automatic. Now I'm starting to wonder if the next generation Caddillac CTS-V will still have an Auto Tranny again also. The exhaust note on the E63 kills it for me too. I've never liked that deep throaty roar of the AMG cars. Sounds like a Euro version of a 5.0L Mustang V8. The straightpipes on my F10 make this exotic note on par with a Ferrari and well the V10 of the previous generation M5 almost has no equal. All in all, I think AMG has absolutely stepped up its game, but the benchmark still is and always will be the M5. Chris Harris provides an honest review here, just skip to about the middle of the video.
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10-24-2013, 12:21 PM | #73 | |
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I do understand the steering comment because they gave me the impression that they didn't like how the M5 steering was heavy but not communicative. They said the AMG was more precise in it's inputs. |
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10-24-2013, 12:23 PM | #74 |
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LOL! I always think that too!
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10-24-2013, 12:31 PM | #76 |
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They criticize BMW because back then BMW used to be the lightest one in the competition and was deff the better drivers car with sharp handling, quick and responsive steering. now BMWs are getting fat and the cars are not that communicative with the drivers thats why people critisize that much
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10-24-2013, 12:32 PM | #77 | |
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10-24-2013, 12:36 PM | #78 |
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I'm just happy Lago did the one off review of the M5 Competition. Always great automotive journalism! Accurate, informative and entertaining. Cheers to Carlos.
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10-24-2013, 12:40 PM | #79 |
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+1 Spot on!
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10-24-2013, 12:46 PM | #80 |
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10-24-2013, 12:47 PM | #81 | |
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Furthermore, the E60 M5 didn't win all comparisons and even came third behind the RS6 and E63, guess what? The consensus is that while the RS6 and E63 might be the "winner", some journalists would prefer the M5. |
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10-24-2013, 12:50 PM | #82 | |
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Other uber sedans have finally caught up to the M5 in terms of driving dynamic, chassis, balance and steering. The only thing the M5 still has over everyone is the gearbox. Consider the sport CTS is already 400lbs lighter than 550 so you can expect the new monster CTS-V to be almost 300+lbs lighter than the M5 (think about what the current M5 could benefit from being 300lbs lighter). I think the reason you are not seeing DCT in the top level E63 is the tons of tq/hp Mercedes loves to dump in their cars due to the big engine and they need the bigger engine to compete. DCT still has limitations and that is the single reason DCT is not in E63. M5 still wins out in totality if you consider everything in balance (chassis, gearbox, engine). M5 will be in big trouble once you see DCT in E63 or CTS-V negating the advantage the M5 still has but by then M5 would have figured out how to cut weight with lightweight carbon fiber composites and do it cheaper. BMW is already invested in lightweight carbon fiber composites and introducing in the I-3 and I-8. BMW has always been the benchmark albeit little less now due to competition but BMW will still be ahead. Always easier to have some bogey to follow as a benchmark (CTS-V, E-63). BMW follows no one. As for the F10 CP and E63 AMG S in the video, look at the trap speed. Rolling start CP F10 M5 will pass E63 AMG S. That is fact.
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10-24-2013, 12:53 PM | #83 |
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Honest question though . . .
What's up with those rear calipers on the M5?
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10-24-2013, 12:54 PM | #84 | |
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10-24-2013, 01:03 PM | #85 | |
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10-24-2013, 01:07 PM | #86 | |
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You realize that the current E63 is not a new model . . . it's just the LCI version of the W212 chassis that has been out a while?
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10-24-2013, 01:11 PM | #87 |
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10-24-2013, 01:14 PM | #88 |
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Yes I realized that, and no one here is more disappointed than me, than BMW's lackluster differences between an LCI and a non-LCI on the F10 5-Series. The E60 LCI was so many more changes than the E60 non-LCI. When Mercedes "catches up" to the next generation GXX M5, I'm sure they'll give ///M a run for their money just like they always do. The M5 will still be the benchmark though.
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