Big Power Build Requirements (700+ whp)

GAINZ · 03-07-2019, 12:15 PM

Is there a list out there of mods and supporting mods to safely make 700-800 whp.

So far I've gathered the following:

Engine/Intake/Exhaust

1. Pure Stage 2 Turbos
2. CSF Coolers
3. Catless Downpipes
4. Intake + Scoops
5. Methanol Injection

Transmission/Drivetrain

6. SSP Clutch (which spec?)
7. DSS Axels
8. What else is needed?

Tunes:
9. BM3/DME?
10. JB4 for meth control/higher boost?

Suspension/Wheels

11. Am I missing anything else except for wider tires and wheels? 305-315 Rear Width.

12. Is KW V3 needed or is competition package good enough for straight line performance (not tracking the car).

Also, any ballpark for cost of all of these modifications?

RPiM5 · 03-07-2019, 02:44 PM

To be on the safe side, anything beyond 600whp and you could bend a rod. Although in order to do that your tune would have to be poor and cause knock or detonation or something. In other words, I highly recommend that if you really want to keep the car and have it running well at high power levels, you will need a built motor with forged parts. This ensures longevity and peace of mind.

You also have to ask yourself why do you want high levels of power in a RWD only platform? I can tell you from experience, the more torque you add to an F1x ///M car, the more useless it becomes at stoplight races and the drag strip unless you do a complete project to change out the rear suspension to handle hard launches at the drag strip with maximum grip from large drag radials.

I personally feel that if you don't do a giant turbo setup you won't be competitive at roll racing events and if you do decide on a giant turbo setup, prepare to say hello to our old friend Mr. Turbo Lag.

Same thing with drag racing, you will need the proper setup because these cars are RWD.

This leaves only two other areas in which to set these cars up for and that is the Street and the Race Track. Both of which are doable, but in both of these cases you really don't need anything more than 800 flywheel horsepower. 800hp in this car on the race track is scary, on the street however it can be pretty fun. Although, if you were to track the car, horsepower is the wrong way to go, you want to modify suspension and brakes first, get those nailed down, then go after power. But for a street setup, keep the car comfortable and manageable, but don't turn off the DSC on the street with high power levels, these RWD platforms can lose traction in an instant and you will be in the ditch before you even know what happened. I've seen it with my own eyes.

So what are your goals then? What are you trying to set the car up for? Dragstrip? Racetrack? Roll Racing? Or Street?

GAINZ · 03-07-2019, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPiM5

To be on the safe side, anything beyond 600whp and you could bend a rod. Although in order to do that your tune would have to be poor and cause knock or detonation or something. In other words, I highly recommend that if you really want to keep the car and have it running well at high power levels, you will need a built motor with forged parts. This ensures longevity and peace of mind.

You also have to ask yourself why do you want high levels of power in a RWD only platform? I can tell you from experience, the more torque you add to an F1x ///M car, the more useless it becomes at stoplight races and the drag strip unless you do a complete project to change out the rear suspension to handle hard launches at the drag strip with maximum grip from large drag radials.

I personally feel that if you don't do a giant turbo setup you won't be competitive at roll racing events and if you do decide on a giant turbo setup, prepare to say hello to our old friend Mr. Turbo Lag.

Same thing with drag racing, you will need the proper setup because these cars are RWD.

This leaves only two other areas in which to set these cars up for and that is the Street and the Race Track. Both of which are doable, but in both of these cases you really don't need anything more than 800 flywheel horsepower. 800hp in this car on the race track is scary, on the street however it can be pretty fun. Although, if you were to track the car, horsepower is the wrong way to go, you want to modify suspension and brakes first, get those nailed down, then go after power. But for a street setup, keep the car comfortable and manageable, but don't turn off the DSC on the street with high power levels, these RWD platforms can lose traction in an instant and you will be in the ditch before you even know what happened. I've seen it with my own eyes.

So what are your goals then? What are you trying to set the car up for? Dragstrip? Racetrack? Roll Racing? Or Street?

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPiM5

To be on the safe side, anything beyond 600whp and you could bend a rod. Although in order to do that your tune would have to be poor and cause knock or detonation or something. In other words, I highly recommend that if you really want to keep the car and have it running well at high power levels, you will need a built motor with forged parts. This ensures longevity and peace of mind.

You also have to ask yourself why do you want high levels of power in a RWD only platform? I can tell you from experience, the more torque you add to an F1x ///M car, the more useless it becomes at stoplight races and the drag strip unless you do a complete project to change out the rear suspension to handle hard launches at the drag strip with maximum grip from large drag radials.

I personally feel that if you don't do a giant turbo setup you won't be competitive at roll racing events and if you do decide on a giant turbo setup, prepare to say hello to our old friend Mr. Turbo Lag.

Same thing with drag racing, you will need the proper setup because these cars are RWD.

This leaves only two other areas in which to set these cars up for and that is the Street and the Race Track. Both of which are doable, but in both of these cases you really don't need anything more than 800 flywheel horsepower. 800hp in this car on the race track is scary, on the street however it can be pretty fun. Although, if you were to track the car, horsepower is the wrong way to go, you want to modify suspension and brakes first, get those nailed down, then go after power. But for a street setup, keep the car comfortable and manageable, but don't turn off the DSC on the street with high power levels, these RWD platforms can lose traction in an instant and you will be in the ditch before you even know what happened. I've seen it with my own eyes.

So what are your goals then? What are you trying to set the car up for? Dragstrip? Racetrack? Roll Racing? Or Street?

Thanks for the post, some great info/questions.

I would say that this car is to be built for the street, and roll racing/occasional half mile stuff.

I have no desires to every launch/race this car from a dig. I really only want 40 mph+ power gains and the occasional poker runs/spirited driving with other enthusiasts.

Maybe you're right in that anything more than 700whp is useless for most applications.

If I were to get there, what supporting mods would I need. When do people bend rods typically? I'm relatively new.

RPiM5 · 03-07-2019, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ncastellano22

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPiM5

To be on the safe side, anything beyond 600whp and you could bend a rod. Although in order to do that your tune would have to be poor and cause knock or detonation or something. In other words, I highly recommend that if you really want to keep the car and have it running well at high power levels, you will need a built motor with forged parts. This ensures longevity and peace of mind.

You also have to ask yourself why do you want high levels of power in a RWD only platform? I can tell you from experience, the more torque you add to an F1x ///M car, the more useless it becomes at stoplight races and the drag strip unless you do a complete project to change out the rear suspension to handle hard launches at the drag strip with maximum grip from large drag radials.

I personally feel that if you don't do a giant turbo setup you won't be competitive at roll racing events and if you do decide on a giant turbo setup, prepare to say hello to our old friend Mr. Turbo Lag.

Same thing with drag racing, you will need the proper setup because these cars are RWD.

This leaves only two other areas in which to set these cars up for and that is the Street and the Race Track. Both of which are doable, but in both of these cases you really don't need anything more than 800 flywheel horsepower. 800hp in this car on the race track is scary, on the street however it can be pretty fun. Although, if you were to track the car, horsepower is the wrong way to go, you want to modify suspension and brakes first, get those nailed down, then go after power. But for a street setup, keep the car comfortable and manageable, but don't turn off the DSC on the street with high power levels, these RWD platforms can lose traction in an instant and you will be in the ditch before you even know what happened. I've seen it with my own eyes.

So what are your goals then? What are you trying to set the car up for? Dragstrip? Racetrack? Roll Racing? Or Street?

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPiM5

To be on the safe side, anything beyond 600whp and you could bend a rod. Although in order to do that your tune would have to be poor and cause knock or detonation or something. In other words, I highly recommend that if you really want to keep the car and have it running well at high power levels, you will need a built motor with forged parts. This ensures longevity and peace of mind.

You also have to ask yourself why do you want high levels of power in a RWD only platform? I can tell you from experience, the more torque you add to an F1x ///M car, the more useless it becomes at stoplight races and the drag strip unless you do a complete project to change out the rear suspension to handle hard launches at the drag strip with maximum grip from large drag radials.

I personally feel that if you don't do a giant turbo setup you won't be competitive at roll racing events and if you do decide on a giant turbo setup, prepare to say hello to our old friend Mr. Turbo Lag.

Same thing with drag racing, you will need the proper setup because these cars are RWD.

This leaves only two other areas in which to set these cars up for and that is the Street and the Race Track. Both of which are doable, but in both of these cases you really don't need anything more than 800 flywheel horsepower. 800hp in this car on the race track is scary, on the street however it can be pretty fun. Although, if you were to track the car, horsepower is the wrong way to go, you want to modify suspension and brakes first, get those nailed down, then go after power. But for a street setup, keep the car comfortable and manageable, but don't turn off the DSC on the street with high power levels, these RWD platforms can lose traction in an instant and you will be in the ditch before you even know what happened. I've seen it with my own eyes.

So what are your goals then? What are you trying to set the car up for? Dragstrip? Racetrack? Roll Racing? Or Street?

Thanks for the post, some great info/questions.

I would say that this car is to be built for the street, and roll racing/occasional half mile stuff.

I have no desires to every launch/race this car from a dig. I really only want 40 mph+ power gains and the occasional poker runs/spirited driving with other enthusiasts.

Maybe you're right in that anything more than 700whp is useless for most applications.

If I were to get there, what supporting mods would I need. When do people bend rods typically? I'm relatively new.

All of the stuff you have gathered already is good. Out of everything the most important thing for safety is the tune itself and your own right foot.

I highly recommend either a Carbahn Motorsports software tune or a Mission Performance tune. Alex from Mission Performance has never blown a motor with his software, but you may not make as much power as other tuners.

With your right foot, it's important not to bring on the torque too quickly from low rpms, this is what can bend a rod too, also since you won't have forged connecting rods.

One more note, use good engine oil. I highly recommend either Redline or Torco.

Chauncey.Bishop · 03-11-2019, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ncastellano22

I have no desires to every launch/race this car from a dig. I really only want 40 mph+ power gains and the occasional poker runs/spirited driving with other enthusiasts.

Maybe you're right in that anything more than 700whp is useless for most applications.

If all you desire is 700WHP, you only need a few things:
Catless downpipes, methanol and a tune, no turbos, no coolers, etc.

If you desire 700WHP and would like to put the power down from a roll:
Add wider, stickier rear tires to your list

Change your clutches once they start slipping (this depends on your tune), add intakes if you desire the sound and that's really it.

technician117 · 03-11-2019, 12:28 PM

Great thread. By that I mean it's been focused on concise facts/figures and mature discussion.

Hopefully my questions fit the theme of the thread well enough that the OP doesn't mind:

What power level is considered a safe max for a daily driven street car on stock internals with occasional weekend roll races and 1-2 track days per year? I saw 600 whp mentioned above?

To expand on that question, is that max power obtainable or desirable on merely tuning? (everything else stock)

Lastly, would you recommend limiting torque on a 6MT the same as a DCT even though the clutch is stronger? I'm thinking back to the rod bending risk...

GAINZ · 03-11-2019, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by technician117

Great thread. By that I mean it's been focused on concise facts/figures and mature discussion.

Hopefully my questions fit the theme of the thread well enough that the OP doesn't mind:

What power level is considered a safe max for a daily driven street car on stock internals with occasional weekend roll races and 1-2 track days per year? I saw 600 whp mentioned above?

To expand on that question, is that max power obtainable or desirable on merely tuning? (everything else stock)

Lastly, would you recommend limiting torque on a 6MT the same as a DCT even though the clutch is stronger? I'm thinking back to the rod bending risk...

Quote:

Originally Posted by technician117

Great thread. By that I mean it's been focused on concise facts/figures and mature discussion.

Hopefully my questions fit the theme of the thread well enough that the OP doesn't mind:

What power level is considered a safe max for a daily driven street car on stock internals with occasional weekend roll races and 1-2 track days per year? I saw 600 whp mentioned above?

To expand on that question, is that max power obtainable or desirable on merely tuning? (everything else stock)

Lastly, would you recommend limiting torque on a 6MT the same as a DCT even though the clutch is stronger? I'm thinking back to the rod bending risk...

Please ask your questions! I am trying to figure out the best way of safely getting to these power levels while keeping the car reliable (I know this seems like an oxymoron), but I drive pretty relaxed but like the thought of having 700whp at my foot whenever I feel like it and really enjoy going to enthusiast events and doing some spirited runs.

Also, wouldn't mind crushing my friends super cars in roll races 😈

I never push the car hard in first, and usually wait til I'm in a higher RPM in 2nd to get on it.

I am also running OpenFlashTablet v2 at the moment with catless downpipes. This tune currently limits the torque in 1st and 2nd gear. The car really opens up in 3rd and 4th.

RPiM5 · 03-11-2019, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by technician117

Great thread. By that I mean it's been focused on concise facts/figures and mature discussion.

Hopefully my questions fit the theme of the thread well enough that the OP doesn't mind:

What power level is considered a safe max for a daily driven street car on stock internals with occasional weekend roll races and 1-2 track days per year? I saw 600 whp mentioned above?

To expand on that question, is that max power obtainable or desirable on merely tuning? (everything else stock)

Lastly, would you recommend limiting torque on a 6MT the same as a DCT even though the clutch is stronger? I'm thinking back to the rod bending risk...

If you want longevity and peace of mind while adding power, I do not recommend going over 600whp. But with a safer and more trustworthy tuner, you can go with more, but again it comes down to your right foot. Even doing constant launches with a stock tune and stock power you can still damage the engine. One good example of bad driving style is frying the turbos, which I have seen on a stock M5 before. Also the OEM rod bearings weren't designed for extremely high power applications such as 700whp. They will fail eventually.

As the for the transmission, the stock clutches begin to slip somewhere around 650wtq. With the 6MT, I believe you can go over 800wtq before having to worry.

When you analyze the internal components of the S63tu motor you realize these motors weren't really built for longevity. Yes if you take care of it, and are responsible with how you treat the motor, it will probably last hundreds of thousands of miles, but as I've seen with my own eyes, the internals of this motor are built with cost savings in mind. Not even the new F90 M5 has better internal components than the F10. One day those motors will begin to also fail too, as owners push them. We have to remember that the S63tu use the same block from the N63tu. The block itself was not something engineered from Motorsport. Same with the internals really.

To answer your question, yes you can get 600whp from just a flash tune and nothing else done to the car.

technician117 · 03-12-2019, 08:30 AM

Thanks. Pretty much everything you said matched up with my own thinking based on reading threads.

I have a great sense of mechanical sympathy. I'll point to my 2000 M5 that's currently sitting at 282,000 miles on the S62 without being opened up internally besides valvecover gaskets and the lower oil pan once for inspection.

Since you confirmed my thinking, I plan to only get a tune. I'd like to have the ability to easily switch back to the stock tune for winter time. This among other features such as logging, integrated code reader, etc. is why I'm leaning towards BM3 or OpenFlash and using a safe map. I see you recommended Mission Performance or Carbahn. Are they remote tuning the car? I'm on the east coast.

RPiM5 · 03-12-2019, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by technician117

Thanks. Pretty much everything you said matched up with my own thinking based on reading threads.

I have a great sense of mechanical sympathy. I'll point to my 2000 M5 that's currently sitting at 282,000 miles on the S62 without being opened up internally besides valvecover gaskets and the lower oil pan once for inspection.

Since you confirmed my thinking, I plan to only get a tune. I'd like to have the ability to easily switch back to the stock tune for winter time. This among other features such as logging, integrated code reader, etc. is why I'm leaning towards BM3 or OpenFlash and using a safe map. I see you recommended Mission Performance or Carbahn. Are they remote tuning the car? I'm on the east coast.

Yes I know Mission Performance can remote tune and I'm pretty sure Carbahn can too.

03-07-2019, 12:15 PM	#1
GAINZ Frozen M5 40 Rep 204 Posts Drives: F10 M5 Competition Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: FL iTrader: (5)	Is there a list out there of mods and supporting mods to safely make 700-800 whp. So far I've gathered the following: Engine/Intake/Exhaust 1. Pure Stage 2 Turbos 2. CSF Coolers 3. Catless Downpipes 4. Intake + Scoops 5. Methanol Injection Transmission/Drivetrain 6. SSP Clutch (which spec?) 7. DSS Axels 8. What else is needed? Tunes: 9. BM3/DME? 10. JB4 for meth control/higher boost? Suspension/Wheels 11. Am I missing anything else except for wider tires and wheels? 305-315 Rear Width. 12. Is KW V3 needed or is competition package good enough for straight line performance (not tracking the car). Also, any ballpark for cost of all of these modifications? __________________ F10 Comp M5 - Frozen Cashmere Silver/Sakhir Orange \| Vorsteiner Carbon Fiber Rear Diffuser \|Vorsteiner Carbon Fiber Front Lip \| Macht Schnell 12mm & 10mm Spacers \| AMS Catless Downpipes \| Meisterschaft GTC + LXR Pipe \| BM3 Stage 2 \|
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03-07-2019, 02:44 PM	#2
RPiM5 Major General 2873 Rep 7,885 Posts Drives: Black M5 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Earth 616 iTrader: (0)	To be on the safe side, anything beyond 600whp and you could bend a rod. Although in order to do that your tune would have to be poor and cause knock or detonation or something. In other words, I highly recommend that if you really want to keep the car and have it running well at high power levels, you will need a built motor with forged parts. This ensures longevity and peace of mind. You also have to ask yourself why do you want high levels of power in a RWD only platform? I can tell you from experience, the more torque you add to an F1x ///M car, the more useless it becomes at stoplight races and the drag strip unless you do a complete project to change out the rear suspension to handle hard launches at the drag strip with maximum grip from large drag radials. I personally feel that if you don't do a giant turbo setup you won't be competitive at roll racing events and if you do decide on a giant turbo setup, prepare to say hello to our old friend Mr. Turbo Lag. Same thing with drag racing, you will need the proper setup because these cars are RWD. This leaves only two other areas in which to set these cars up for and that is the Street and the Race Track. Both of which are doable, but in both of these cases you really don't need anything more than 800 flywheel horsepower. 800hp in this car on the race track is scary, on the street however it can be pretty fun. Although, if you were to track the car, horsepower is the wrong way to go, you want to modify suspension and brakes first, get those nailed down, then go after power. But for a street setup, keep the car comfortable and manageable, but don't turn off the DSC on the street with high power levels, these RWD platforms can lose traction in an instant and you will be in the ditch before you even know what happened. I've seen it with my own eyes. So what are your goals then? What are you trying to set the car up for? Dragstrip? Racetrack? Roll Racing? Or Street? __________________
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03-11-2019, 12:28 PM	#6
technician117 Captain 251 Rep 606 Posts Drives: 2000 M5, 2001 M5, 2013 M5 6MT Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: Buffalo iTrader: (1) Garage List 1990 BMW M5 [0.00] 2000 BMW M5 [0.00] 2013 BMW M5 [0.00]	Great thread. By that I mean it's been focused on concise facts/figures and mature discussion. Hopefully my questions fit the theme of the thread well enough that the OP doesn't mind: What power level is considered a safe max for a daily driven street car on stock internals with occasional weekend roll races and 1-2 track days per year? I saw 600 whp mentioned above? To expand on that question, is that max power obtainable or desirable on merely tuning? (everything else stock) Lastly, would you recommend limiting torque on a 6MT the same as a DCT even though the clutch is stronger? I'm thinking back to the rod bending risk...
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03-12-2019, 08:30 AM	#9
technician117 Captain 251 Rep 606 Posts Drives: 2000 M5, 2001 M5, 2013 M5 6MT Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: Buffalo iTrader: (1) Garage List 1990 BMW M5 [0.00] 2000 BMW M5 [0.00] 2013 BMW M5 [0.00]	Thanks. Pretty much everything you said matched up with my own thinking based on reading threads. I have a great sense of mechanical sympathy. I'll point to my 2000 M5 that's currently sitting at 282,000 miles on the S62 without being opened up internally besides valvecover gaskets and the lower oil pan once for inspection. Since you confirmed my thinking, I plan to only get a tune. I'd like to have the ability to easily switch back to the stock tune for winter time. This among other features such as logging, integrated code reader, etc. is why I'm leaning towards BM3 or OpenFlash and using a safe map. I see you recommended Mission Performance or Carbahn. Are they remote tuning the car? I'm on the east coast.
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