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03-11-2011, 01:44 PM | #23 | |
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Agreed. Furthermore, single-clutch transmission downshifts/throttle blips are much more instantaneous and "generous" compared dual-clutch transmission since it does not have to decide which clutch to use based on odd or even gear selection. On the track, single-clutch automated maual is the way to go.
Not to mention, the newest generation of single-clutch automated manuals are actually becoming faster than dual-clutch transmission and they are far more exciting to drive as well with a manual-like feel. One example is the newest single-clutch automated manual Lambo developed for the LP700 Aventador, which officially is 50% faster than the Audi DSG double-clutch transmission in the RS5. Quote:
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03-11-2011, 02:06 PM | #24 |
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The unique thing about DCT is their shifts are super smooth and those shifts I might add are quicker than almost all single clutch transmission. The Aventador I doubt will offer a smooth shift (even in it's comfort mode) as an auto, not really necessary with a supercar but the M5 isn't that type of car so the DCT is the right choice. Looking forward to sampling this car when it becomes available.
P.S. Great to hear they have finally seen sense and dropped the huge multiple mode offerings to a most sensible and manageable 3 setting. |
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03-11-2011, 03:21 PM | #27 |
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brilliant!
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03-11-2011, 03:23 PM | #28 |
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Thats because they only see it's arse and never the front.
M5 drivers included.
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03-11-2011, 03:39 PM | #29 | |
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I wonder why they gave chris the car in the snow... hmm BMW is playing with chris as well Its going to be a great car...
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03-11-2011, 03:49 PM | #30 | |
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Nobody noticed the RPM Range? in evo magazine website there is a picture of the interior... the M5 is turned off, redline at 7000... cant tell for sure but it seems like 7K... bummer but expected
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03-11-2011, 04:02 PM | #31 |
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03-11-2011, 04:03 PM | #32 |
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sounds good but not like the M3.
Last edited by bobbyd1961; 03-13-2011 at 11:52 AM.. Reason: spelling |
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03-11-2011, 05:34 PM | #33 |
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Well, if it got to 7K still building power it would be much better than what's really going to happen, which is peak power at 6000 and 100 hp less at 7000.
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03-11-2011, 05:54 PM | #34 | |
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Best regards, south
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03-11-2011, 08:29 PM | #35 |
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'It has a bigger fuel tank than a regular 5 (somewhere between 70 and 80 litres, but they won’t say exactly what – I’m cleverly guessing 75) which with the much improved economy gives a real range of 400 miles.'
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03-12-2011, 12:01 AM | #36 |
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Oh wow me want a F10 M5 now.
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03-12-2011, 05:29 AM | #38 |
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03-12-2011, 07:33 AM | #39 | |||||
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What I was getting at with my reply is that I hope this box has been correctly identified as a DCT, assuming the guy was making the call just based on feel. I realize that the DCT 7 vs. 8 speeds for the BMW Steptronic. I believe he is correct, however. Probably the comment was just an off the cuff thing meant to emphasize that the new M5 is as good or better than the old one in every category (except exhaust note, at least on the preproduction car). I do hope, though, that the DCT performance has not been effected by or adjusted do to the new engine somehow. I guess we'll have to wait until more tests are done, and with a non-preproduction car. [quote]To the best of my knowledge, both E92 M3s with DCT boxes that have run in the "Lightning Lap" of Car and Driver have had issues following commands when used in the track. Read the reports the same people did about the SMG III equipped cars (M5/M6) and you'll see there are no such issues. [quote] Car and Driver's findings do not necessarily jibe with others. Yes, DCT has faced some very well known bugs. But keep in mind there have been many DCT software revisions and it is known for a fact that the car in their first test did not have the lag fix. For the second car the results were surprising given that others have reported these issues were fixed in their cars long before that second test was performed. Bottom line is that you can read plenty of other M3 tests where the box responds exactly as asked to. Quote:
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03-12-2011, 08:19 AM | #40 | ||||
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Speaking of the 458, its a spectacular track car, especailly the Challenge version which as you know retains the dual clutch transmission. In fact Ferrari even updated the ratios and software specifically for this car. Clearly a DCT is great for the track or Ferrari would have went back to the transmission in the Scuderia. Like I said earlier The type of transmisison is less important than the shift performance. Right now, for cars below the "super car" realm DCT offers the best performance for the price. Pretty much everyone is moving from single to dual clutch for performance cars in these segments. And even above that there are only a couple hold-outs like Lamborghini and Aston Martin. |
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03-12-2011, 12:55 PM | #41 |
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To the best of my knowledge, BMW already fixed it ...
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03-12-2011, 02:22 PM | #42 |
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I'm surprised that when we are talking about a difference between shift times of DCT and even the quickest SMG (Aventador) that's less than you could possibly blink, yet only one of these two transmissions could remotely pull off a perfect impression of a traditional automatic. That's what's important, the M5 is a big heavy luxury saloon first so the shift quality needs to reflect that and a sports saloon second which is why it's transmission shifts as quick as it does.
BTW don't get this confused, it's exclusively the software that determines how good these transmissions behave on the track, it has nothing to do with the technology itself, so if BMW get it wrong then don't blame DCT because all aren't the same. |
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03-12-2011, 02:44 PM | #43 |
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I think DCT is perfect for the M5. Not an AUTO, as the car is still a sporty car, but not an SMG as it is not only for "track". I think it would have been better if the M5 E60 came with DCT and the M3 E92 came with SMG. I really don't like the sound of DCT, sounds like an AUTO. The Lexus LF-A "SMG" sounds very good on the other hand.
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03-12-2011, 03:20 PM | #44 |
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Lambo's official line on why the Aventador will be offered with a single clutch AMT is that the Dual Clutch is "too smooth" and does not offer "enough emotion".
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