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      05-28-2014, 02:39 PM   #23
boots
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You canot get your limiter removed here since you live in the states. It's a euro thang!
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      05-28-2014, 02:58 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boots View Post
You canot get your limiter removed here since you live in the states. It's a euro thang!
I guess it's a matter of time, my e63 M6 has no topend limiter. Oh well we see what the future brings
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      05-28-2014, 09:05 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m6beast
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-bitious View Post
Car was tested on a Maha with 791 bhp at the crank. Since then I deleted the cats and installed a full IPE exhaust. I am over 800 bhp.
Great Job Man!!!

I'm planning a 1/2 mile drag race in September and need my Top end limiter removed. How can I get this done here in the states.
Also don't want to effect my BMS stage 1 with meth, do they do just the limiter?
Let me know
G
You have to have the M drivers package (189mph limiter) for it to be removed . This package is actual ECU hardware not just software so without it we will never get the limiter removed unfortunately . I can confirm you will hit the limiter in the standing half mile , but interestingly i was accelerating so hard I made it to 159mph GPS .
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      05-28-2014, 10:19 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmd2003 View Post
You have to have the M drivers package (189mph limiter) for it to be removed . This package is actual ECU hardware not just software so without it we will never get the limiter removed unfortunately . I can confirm you will hit the limiter in the standing half mile , but interestingly i was accelerating so hard I made it to 159mph GPS .
That's awesome! I guess I will be hitting limiter way before 1/2 mile especially if I'm hitting 11.0 @ 128 mph at the track. Oh well hopefully I'll come up with something by then.
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      06-03-2014, 09:08 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-bitious View Post
Car was tested on a Maha with 791 bhp at the crank. Since then I deleted the cats and installed a full IPE exhaust. I am over 800 bhp.
What was the wheel hp? That's all anyone cares about. Crank hp is a dream unless you are testing on an engine dyno.
Correction factors vary greatly as well. What most people don't realize is how efficient the DCT is, and how little it robs from the power curve. I'm assuming your results are with a 15% drivetrain loss?
Here in the States, we use dynojets and mustang dynos and others, which all vary as well, but wheel hp gives us a more accurate sense of things.
From the speedo, your car seems no faster than mine. Mine having dps, intake, exhaust delete and bms.
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      06-03-2014, 09:21 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timberwolf View Post
What was the wheel hp? That's all anyone cares about. Crank hp is a dream unless you are testing on an engine dyno.
Correction factors vary greatly as well. What most people don't realize is how efficient the DCT is, and how little it robs from the power curve. I'm assuming your results are with a 15% drivetrain loss?
Here in the States, we use dynojets and mustang dynos and others, which all vary as well, but wheel hp gives us a more accurate sense of things.
From the speedo, your car seems no faster than mine. Mine having dps, intake, exhaust delete and bms.
EXACTLY! What was the MAHA whp.

The MAHA overestimates DT loss because DT loss on most modern cars is greater under decel than accel due to varible resistance of alternator etc...

The MAHA previously estimated DT loss for an F10 at 19%. The real nuber is more like 12%.

The crank number you are quoting is likely at leat 5% high, more likely 7% high. Therefore 791 crank with 19% DT loss = 735 with 12% DT loss. Bigg difference.

Furthermore, you can't assume that your mods added power. You should redyno to confirm before quoting additional hp.
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      06-03-2014, 01:52 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo8765 View Post
EXACTLY! What was the MAHA whp.

The MAHA overestimates DT loss because DT loss on most modern cars is greater under decel than accel due to varible resistance of alternator etc...

The MAHA previously estimated DT loss for an F10 at 19%. The real nuber is more like 12%.

The crank number you are quoting is likely at leat 5% high, more likely 7% high. Therefore 791 crank with 19% DT loss = 735 with 12% DT loss. Bigg difference.

Furthermore, you can't assume that your mods added power. You should redyno to confirm before quoting additional hp.
EXACTLY. I'd say 720 to 740hp is more like it. Big difference with 800hp. Sorry to burst the OP's bubble but I think it's also safer to understate than over state.
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      06-03-2014, 03:48 PM   #30
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Still holding out for the whp number...
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      06-04-2014, 12:35 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo8765 View Post
Still holding out for the whp number...
He has previously stated that RWHP now is "over 600hp", and that he made 90hp more at the crank, on the same dyno, from the Manhart tune to the PP tune, see links below.

http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=830347

http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=972834
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      06-04-2014, 03:05 PM   #32
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He did state over 600whp MAHA with PP tune, but declined to share the actual value or graphs.

On the one hand I understand the hesitancy to post the actual info (the discussions that follow can get pretty bad), on other hand he's made a significant crank hp claim.

If you don't want to get into dyno discussions then don't make the crank claim. If you're willing to claim 800 crank you should be willing to show the MAHA whp dyno numbers and graphs.

In the end, I appreciate what's he's done for the community… The videos are fun and he's certainly stimulated discussion.
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      06-20-2014, 01:33 PM   #33
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I will post the first dyno when the car was a Manhart version. After that we removed the cats, installed a more powerful PP-Performance software. But since the second dyno was not a Dynojet but a Maha, I won't be posting the Maha sheet. I have been in too many negative discussions when all I wanted is to share info with this community. This dyno shows 660 WHP and 889 Nm of torque.
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      06-20-2014, 01:43 PM   #34
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I feel comfortable to quote with my latest IPE exhaust upgrade 810bhp. Crank bhp is what we Europeans go by (just like BMW quoting crank bhp). People may do their own maths on what they believe the wheel power is. Sorry to disappoint. I do don't really care about RWHP.

In the meantime I have a flash from abroad that should remove the torque limiter in the gearbox, which should take it over 1,000Nm and the speed limiter which I hit at 328 km/h indicated. I am now preparing the car for a real top speed run in Germany. I will be checking:

- Max speed allowed on the Michelin Pilot Supersports. (350 km/h for sure)
- Filling them with nitrogen rather than just air.
- Discussing the right tire pressure front and rear.
- Having tires removed for internal inspection.
- Filling up with Aral 102 Octane for max power.
- Calculating the down force on the car in kg.

Since I am expecting a top speed in excess of 220 mph indicated I really need to take this extremely serious. The car is very heavy and the tires have to take all this load and heat. I don't want to have a blow out. If I have the slightest concern during the run I will stop.

So keep looking out for the video, v-box and photo material I hope to post after June 29.
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      06-20-2014, 01:55 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-bitious
I feel comfortable to quote with my latest IPE exhaust upgrade 810bhp. Crank bhp is what we Europeans go by (just like BMW quoting crank bhp). People may do their own maths on what they believe the wheel power is. Sorry to disappoint. I do don't really care about RWHP.

In the meantime I have a flash from abroad that should remove the torque limiter in the gearbox, which should take it over 1,000Nm and the speed limiter which I hit at 328 km/h indicated. I am now preparing the car for a real top speed run in Germany. I will be checking:

- Max speed allowed on the Michelin Pilot Supersports. (350 km/h for sure)
- Filling them with nitrogen rather than just air.
- Discussing the right tire pressure front and rear.
- Having tires removed for internal inspection.
- Filling up with Aral 102 Octane for max power.
- Calculating the down force on the car in kg.

Since I am expecting a top speed in excess of 220 mph indicated I really need to take this extremely serious. The car is very heavy and the tires have to take all this load and heat. I don't want to have a blow out. If I have the slightest concern during the run I will stop.

So keep looking out for the video, v-box and photo material I hope to post after June 29.
Do you have any data from the dragstrip or Vbox . That means a lot more than any dyno number, and would definitely shut anyone up if you trap more than 130mph in the 1/4 mile . With 800 hp that should be no problem .
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      06-20-2014, 04:13 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-bitious View Post
I feel comfortable to quote with my latest IPE exhaust upgrade 810bhp. Crank bhp is what we Europeans go by (just like BMW quoting crank bhp). People may do their own maths on what they believe the wheel power is. Sorry to disappoint. I do don't really care about RWHP.

In the meantime I have a flash from abroad that should remove the torque limiter in the gearbox, which should take it over 1,000Nm and the speed limiter which I hit at 328 km/h indicated. I am now preparing the car for a real top speed run in Germany. I will be checking:

- Max speed allowed on the Michelin Pilot Supersports. (350 km/h for sure)
- Filling them with nitrogen rather than just air.
- Discussing the right tire pressure front and rear.
- Having tires removed for internal inspection.
- Filling up with Aral 102 Octane for max power.
- Calculating the down force on the car in kg.

Since I am expecting a top speed in excess of 220 mph indicated I really need to take this extremely serious. The car is very heavy and the tires have to take all this load and heat. I don't want to have a blow out. If I have the slightest concern during the run I will stop.

So keep looking out for the video, v-box and photo material I hope to post after June 29.
Excellent! You are awesome man! I can't wait for you to get down to Germany and put everything to the test!
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      06-20-2014, 04:13 PM   #37
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Very nice thread
Ways to go M-bitious
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      06-20-2014, 05:03 PM   #38
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Patiently waiting!
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      06-20-2014, 06:15 PM   #39
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What gear were you in when dynoing?

I dynoed mine in 5th but power cut off at 6200 rpm do to topend limiter. So I have another 1000 rpm to go pretty sure some more power to be made. Also 6th gear is the 1:1 gear.
I believe my car is pushing 800+ at the crank. This was a dynojet Dyno.
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      06-21-2014, 02:12 AM   #40
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Over on the F80 boards there is a thread on the Supertest dyno results of the new M4.

Some useful info on the different methods and WHP results between different dynos. Also some info on why the MAHA shows what appears to be a high drivetrain loss (apparently because the losses indicated on the MAHA also includes the inertial losses of the dyno and not just the drivetrain). Suffice to say that the MAHA is approved by TUV and most manufacturers.

The thread also has a compilation of various RWHP recordings on a few dyno brands. And when a stock E9x M3 makes anywhere between 305-360whp on the same brand of dyno (a 17% variation!), then comparing dynosheets between different operators makes no sense...

You need to do what the OP has done here. Do before and after dyno runs on the same dyno and same operator. Then you can see how much power the tune has added.
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      06-21-2014, 02:13 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m6beast
What gear were you in when dynoing?

I dynoed mine in 5th but power cut off at 6200 rpm do to topend limiter. So I have another 1000 rpm to go pretty sure some more power to be made. Also 6th gear is the 1:1 gear.
I believe my car is pushing 800+ at the crank. This was a dynojet Dyno.
What was your baseline numbers on the same dyno?
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      06-21-2014, 06:07 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
What was your baseline numbers on the same dyno?
Well I didn't dyno in 5th gear for my base but when I did from 4th to 5th gear pulls same day there was a 30whp gain and 40wtrq gain from going to 4th then 5th.

My F10 M5 stock did 580 whp and 540wtrq in fourth gear

When I added the BMS stage 1 tune same day it went to 621whp and 590 peak wtrq also in fourth gear

My M6 has more mods.

Also on this same dyno, dynoed a sl63 12' did 416 whp can't rememeber the torque numbers but pretty accurate to what factory claims with drivetrain loss.
My cousin dynoed his sl65 04' did 525 whp and he has exhaust. Stock ecu.

The reason they dynoed these benzs they didn't believe my M6 was pushing that much power even though my M6 stock blew the doors off his sl65 when my m6 was in stock form which I have a video of it.

Also my buddies n54 dynoed 664 whp 515 wtrq on his single turbo set up. Raced him in my M5 BMS stage 1 and blew the doors off of it. Think his car is almost 800lbs less. You can't mess with these cars with technology between turbo boost coming in early dct transmission and crazy torque down low. Have a video of that race

My M6 did 11.0 at 128 mph back to back very consistent. Going back to the track now that it has adapted to the meth set up hoping to break 11's

Here's Dyno from my M5 stock Dyno run to BMS stage 1 same day 4th gear pull
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Last edited by m6beast; 06-21-2014 at 06:39 AM..
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      06-21-2014, 06:38 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m6beast View Post
Well I didn't dyno in 5th gear for my base but when I did from 4th to 5th gear pulls same day there was a 30whp gain and 40wtrq gain from going to 4th then 5th.

My F10 M5 stock did 580 whp and 540wtrq in fourth gear

When I added the BMS stage 1 tune same day it went to 621whp and 590 peak wtrq also in fourth gear

My M6 has more mods.

Also on this same dyno, dynoed a sl63 12' did 416 whp can't rememeber the torque numbers but pretty accurate to what factory claims with drivetrain loss.
My cousin dynoed his sl65 04' did 525 whp and he has exhaust. Stock ecu.

The reason they dynoed these benzs they didn't believe my M6 was pushing that much power even though my M6 stock blew the doors off his sl65 when my m6 was in stock form which I have a video of it.

Also my buddies n54 dynoed 664 whp 515 wtrq on his single turbo set up. Raced him in my M5 BMS stage 1 and blew the doors off of it. Think his car is almost 800lbs less. You can't mess with these cars with technology between turbo boost coming in early dct transmission and crazy torque down low. Have a video of that race

My M6 did 11.0 at 128 mph back to back very consistent. Going back to the track now that it has adapted to the meth set up hoping to break 11's
Thanks

The OP did 660whp on the Dynojet with his Manhart tune. Then he changed to the PP tune. But before changing he dyno'd his M5 on the MAHA dyno with the Manhart tune. Then he did the PP tune and dyno'd again on the same MAHA dyno which resulted in 90hp more at the flywheel.

So, he basically has 90hp more than what the Dynojet shows (since he got a delta gain of 90hp between the two tunes on the same dyno).
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      06-21-2014, 07:13 AM   #44
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So we have manheart, pp performance, bms, and switzer. For the most part I've only heard of one guy who pushed the limits of his car featured in this thread w the pp. most others use bms and I can't remember the guys name in Cali who has the switzer. I'm just curious why 99% of us stayed away from the manheart. I have my own reasons from past irritations w them on another forum post. But none the less state side I've never heard of anyone using them or pp.
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