B&O retrofit, Ceramics, Winters and Turner back box

[Actor]

Originally Posted by rjn21

So let's say your car is 65k. As its 0% finance there is the same cost of borrowing 30k, or 65k - ie nothing. So borrow the full 65k. Payments per month are of course higher.

At the same time you pay some holding deposit to the dealer (not a finance deposit) and you give your old car as trade in. So the dealer gets 65k from BMW Finance UK + your deposit + your trade in car, when all they want is 65k for the new car. ie they end up owing you your deposit and trade in value.

You have 0 equity in the car from day 1, but who cares, why have equity in a depreciating asset. As long as you understand that come trade in time next time your M5 is unlikely to have significant equity in it.

If you want to be really funky (some dealers get this others think you are money laundering), increase the purchase price of the new car to list BUT also increase your trade in value by same amount. Say your trade in is 15 and list is 78.

Your deal is 65 for new and 15 for trade, but you finance full 65. ie they owe you 15k.
If increase purchase to list of 78 and increase your trade in 28, but you finance the full 78, ie they owe you 28k.

It's a cheap way of borrowing money at 0%. The dealer takes a loss on the trade in but books the new car at list.

Some dealers get it, others think you are trying to screw them, others think you are money laundering. Neither I'm sure would be the case, but it all depends whose P&L new car sales and trade ins end up on.

Sweet!!! Thanks; will talk to the dealer about this. I will sound very knowledgeable

[Dionysus]

Originally Posted by Actor

You've lost me in all that "speak". I 'm on for a 4yr 0% finance, paying a deposit on a PCP with a GFV and my current bimmer as a trade in. Fill me in (layman terms) on the cash back equivalent to the trade in and deposit. Sounds like your mate was "quids in". Sorry about the persistence but want to get the best deal I can.

What rjn21 said will not work for you (factory order to your spec) - only works on stock cars on last day of quarter at a dealership which needs to sell that car to hit a quarterly target and thus a larger back end margin. If you are flexible on spec and are willing to commit to a stock car on the day (as rjn21 said needs to be registered on that day, not merely sold) the deal can be lucrative.

Bear in mind that the dealership may only have 8-10% of profit in a new car (front end margin) so if you've already managed to negotiate 20% off on a factory order you are doing pretty well, especially as you have a PX in the mix and unless they've offset losses on new car against that, they are taking on additional risk (i.e., they may hit their 2014Q2 targets without your new car).

Obviously if you can push them for more, do so, as you'll only know when you've got the 'best and final offer' when they say 'no'. They need to make some profit to stay in business...

[Actor]

Originally Posted by Dionysus

What rjn21 said will not work for you (factory order to your spec) - only works on stock cars on last day of quarter at a dealership which needs to sell that car to hit a quarterly target and thus a larger back end margin. If you are flexible on spec and are willing to commit to a stock car on the day (as rjn21 said needs to be registered on that day, not merely sold) the deal can be lucrative.

Bear in mind that the dealership may only have 8-10% of profit in a new car (front end margin) so if you've already managed to negotiate 20% off on a factory order you are doing pretty well, especially as you have a PX in the mix and unless they've offset losses on new car against that, they are taking on additional risk (i.e., they may hit their 2014Q2 targets without your new car).

Obviously if you can push they for more, do so, as you'll only know when you've got the 'best and final offer' when they say 'no'. They need to make some profit to stay in business...

Thanks. Not very flexible on spec as I know what I would like in a car. I have been working on this deal for a while now and I am meeting the manager this time round (so expecting the final deal that can be done). Car will be my daily driver and I cover about 20k a year. Will update you guys when I am done.

[Dionysus]

Originally Posted by Actor

Thanks. Not very flexible on spec as I know what I would like in a car. I have been working on this deal for a while now and I am meeting the manager this time round (so expecting the final deal that can be done). Car will be my daily driver and I cover about 20k a year. Will update you guys when I am done.

I'm the same as you (factory order to my spec only); doesn't help if you spec Indy colours such as moonstone as dealers generally don't want to spec this on stock car as very few buyers want to pay extra for 'silver'.

Wife's car is due a change soon and I'll consider the stock car option this time in order to build up the GT3 fund faster

Good luck with the final deal

[Mikeisen]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

Wow. I would think it would be cheaper to sell and buy a new car with these features.

LMAO

[Actor]

Originally Posted by Dionysus

I'm the same as you (factory order to my spec only); doesn't help if you spec Indy colours such as moonstone as dealers generally don't want to spec this on stock car as very few buyers want to pay extra for 'silver'.

Wife's car is due a change soon and I'll consider the stock car option this time in order to build up the GT3 fund faster

Good luck with the final deal

Thanks. Going for Imperial Blue as I like covert stuff!!!

[Palmnuts]

Nice spec - Competition Pack, B&O and Ceramics are all big ticket items that lift these cars above the norm. And each one of them offers a noticeable benefit over standard. I wonder if cars with these kind of specs will command better residuals....doesn't look like it given there's already a couple of M6 GC demos for sale on the BMW UK AUC site in the low-mid £70k's.

So, was a £20k ish discount on a stock car really enough to outweigh the additional cost of retrofitting those items? Part prices are typically a whole lot more than an option cost (I was quoted £12k to retrofit ceramics to my previous SLS, which was nearly 40% more than the option cost!) so to make this stack up, I assume you must've managed to get hold of the parts at a similar price to the options, with fitting almost free? Otherwise, a decent discount on a new build would've surely been cheaper? Or....you're über impatient

I got in the region of 20% on my M6 back in July but that was spec'd to £118k - it got the car down to mid £90k's and then with the interest free PCP (worth around £12k in saved interest at that level), it was only fractionally more expensive than a 1 year old used example (without all the nice options) would've been on say 6-7% APR (which itself would be a cheap rate from a BMW dealer on a used car). I always wonder if I could've done better but even at these levels of discount, we're all still going to be taking a bath come resale!

[rjn21]

Definite swimming pool time on trade in, that's why I wanted the PCP. After 3 years hand in and walk away. If a miracle happens and the car is worth more than the GFV, bonus, I have assumed zero value on trade in time. The 0% offer was attractive - why use my cash when I can use their cash for free and generate a yield of ~10% on my own cash. Small beer but every little helps as they say.

If I had ordered specced exactly how I wanted, that would have been net cheaper, but time is worth some money and I had the fun of ordering parts, telling the dealer and BMW UK they were wrong it would fit, researching the wiring on the amp, getting into coding, all fun stuff.

It wouldn't have been masses cheaper though. Ceramics were ~8500 retrofitted, and B&O ~5000 retrofitted.

I enjoyed the challenge of getting the parts together and installing as much as the bits themselves - who could resist LEDs in the steering wheel!

[rjn21]

Quite a few people have PM'd about the B&O retrofit. Yes it can be done and is identical to B&O ordered from factory with the (dim) LED lights in the front door tweeters and the rising centre speaker.

All the parts needed are in my original post, but these are for a RHD car with a black trim to them. For LHD the front door mid covers are different from memory.

The faffy bit is the subs which mean taking the seats out to change. To get the front door tweeters and centre illuminated and moving, a wiring cable is needed. PM for details of the contact details of where to get one (not me - that's way beyond my basic soldering capability!).

You will need to do some coding though using esys. Very easy.

It does sound very very good. Better than the B&O I had in my V12 Aston, light years better than the PoS Linn system in DB9, better than Bose in Porsche (haven't tried the Burmester), better than JBL in F12 etc. I haven't heard an in-car system that's better, but admittedly I have not got into the world of non OEM as post MOST bus integration it would involve too much non standard kit to make it work.

[w5pwr]

I got a set of winter wheels from my local dealer for the M5 and they priced matched the best price I was quoted, which was £2,600 fitted including the pressure sensing valves.

The wheels are 19" 408 style and the grip is noticeably better in damp & cold conditions, although they are still easy to light-up.....

[Palmnuts]

Have to say RJN, fair play to you. Whilst I like tinkering, retrofitting B&O is more than I'd dare! Ceramics yes, and the retrofit price you paid is very good (annoyingly so, as that indicates the option should be cheaper as you're not paying for that standard brakes as well!).

I concur with the quality of the B&O; it's noticeably better than any other factory-fit system I've heard. Only Jaguars' Bowers and Wilkins, now Meridien, comes close IMO. I was dubious about specifying it as the B&O in my SLS was the worst 'premium' audio system I've heard....the subs were high up on the back shelf and they were mid range speakers at best so just distorted (like they'd blown!) as soon as you whacked some bass through. Outrageous for a £5k option (which thankfully the first owner paid) and I ended up having it modified with better subs that helped it sound better, if still nothing like it should have done.

How easy is this coding because I've just bought an M135i and stupidly didn't spec enhanced Bluetooth which I believe can be coded in?

[rjn21]

Sent you a PM re coding.
You need the main software - esys.
A patch that I guess fixes some security issues.
Data files at least as up to date as the I-level of the car.

Then you install on a windows laptop and buy an ENET cable off ebay or similar.

Once you have all the software setup, (50gb!), its very similar to a registry editor in windows with a directory structure to look at modules and their settings.

Once you have it set up, its v easy to use and lots of help on the forums, including lists of what does what and what to change.

[Palmnuts]

Got the PM - thanks for that Seems simple enough - will give it a go in the New Year.

[RPiM5]

Those Winter Wheels look pretty cool actually!

[jbomb]

Amazing retrofit(s) fair play to you.

I have ordered the front splitters and will also be doing just the central challenger diffuser (great minds and all that)
Be interested to hear more about the turner as I have had my eye on one of those. What was the total once delivered?

Happy Christmas guys.

[Neil McRae]

RJN,
top stuff.

what parts did you have to order for the ceramics! where and how much?

Neil.

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by Neil McRae

RJN,
top stuff.

what parts did you have to order for the ceramics! where and how much?

Neil.

While you're waiting for a response, my price-is-right gut instinct says GBP12,000 for the ceramics parts (not incl. labor but including VAT)

[mstmng]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

While you're waiting for a response, my price-is-right gut instinct says GBP12,000 for the ceramics parts (not incl. labor but including VAT)

he has already mentioned above

Ceramics were ~8500 retrofitted, and B&O ~5000 retrofitted

but he ordered parts through dealer, if he would have ordered through germany it would have been at least 25% cheaper!

[Boss330]

A list of all components with USD prices:

http://www.partswebsite.com/bmwparts...068%20211.html

With a subtotal of $5,556.91

At this German parts site the amplifier is listed at USD 3000,- or 1000 dollars more than on the US website.

http://www.online-teile.com/mini/pro...diosystem.html

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by mstmng

he has already mentioned above

Ceramics were ~8500 retrofitted, and B&O ~5000 retrofitted

but he ordered parts through dealer, if he would have ordered through germany it would have been at least 25% cheaper!

That's surprising - it's only 600 pounds more than the factory option price if you're buying a new car. If you are correct about German prices then its cheaper to do ceramics aftermarket than from the factory in the UK.

[mstmng]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

That's surprising - it's only 600 pounds more than the factory option price if you're buying a new car. If you are correct about German prices then its cheaper to do ceramics aftermarket than from the factory in the UK.

plus he can always sell his stock breaks/discs/rotors and it will make it cheaper to retrofit CCB

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by mstmng

plus he can always sell his stock breaks/discs/rotors and it will make it cheaper to retrofit CCB

Yes. This implies that the factory option for CCB is heavily over-priced. By comparison factory B&O pricing seems reasonable.