M5 to M3...

[MDM]

Does anyone think going from F10 M5 to a F80 M3 is a step down? I would like to think its a lateral move.

[mr_djurgarden]

yes, this is a step down. I did an upgrade to 2015 BM M5 with CP. So much better.

[steveM5-UK]

+1 defo step down.

[MCarsFan]

Originally Posted by MDM

Does anyone think going from F10 M5 to a F80 M3 is a step down? I would like to think its a lateral move.

If your requirements have changed and you like the car, go for it. Do what makes you happy.

[thedoctor]

I recently drove an M3 with Akra's and must say i was super impressed. It lacks the outright pull of the M5 but feels a lot nimbler.

I actually went on a breakfast run just this past weekend with an M4. We did many races incl. off the line and rolling... The M3 / M4 is no slouch and can hold it's own with the M5, especially off the line and in low gears. Once the M5 gets going though it's quite a bit quicker, and pulls by quite some margin.

Many prefer the sportier look of the M3 / M4 too, so i guess it just depends on your own preferences and circumstances.

[Knicks_fan2]

You should look in the M5 vs. section for many threads on this. I had a similar conflict but my preferences veered me to the M5 though I think the F80 is an awesome car. Ultimately, the lack of luxury was in the M3 was not outweighed by its nimbleness capabilities and, for my family, the M5 is much better.

[RPiM5]

Overall it is a step down in my opinion but it can be a step up in certain ways too.

The M3 has some advantages. It is in general more nimble and easier to drive on a track. In my opinion the Active Sound in the M3 is more pronounced and aggressive giving a more sporty driving experience (if only you intend on keeping the stock exhaust on the car).

The F10 is a big car and to some can be a detractor and also a liability ( public parking). But the F10 can do everything an M3 can do better with the exception of obtaining a better lap time on a race track. Also most people can't or don't want to spend $100k on a sports sedan, and I think that the price differential is the reason why most people buy an M3 rather than M5, even though most M3 owners won't admit it. In the test between the 30 Year M5 and M4, the M5 was only 2/10 of a second slower around the same track. The M3 is a cheaper car to drive on the track too, brake pads and rotors won't cost as much. Then again fighting the weight in the corners with the M5 isn't exactly the most fun either, but it can still outpace 90% of the cars out there today.

Where I think the real advantage is of the M5 is the luxury, comfort, and utility of it. Whenever I see an M4 in stuck in bumper to bumper traffic, I always think to myself, yeah how are you liking that 900lbs difference, it's real useful being stuck in traffic isn't it? Meanwhile I'm sitting in some really comfortable seats, listening to my Bang & Olufsen, surrounded by Full Merino Leather and enjoying my butt massagers while in the same traffic jam.

If you can afford either car just fine, my advice is if you intend on tracking, buy the M3, if not buy the M5. Besides at lower speeds the real hydraulic steering of the M5 feels so good. The electric steering in the M3, you can't feel anything. I've also heard M3 owner friends of mine say that the one piece seat in the M3 is uncomfortable over time. Also Seat Ventilation is really nice in the summer.

Forgot to mention the power close trunk. Love that feature. Lol!

[M6-Coupe]

For sure it is an upgrade because you lose lots of power, torque, luxurious, comfort and room.

[Knicks_fan2]

Also, re op, I would hold off on any decision there until you can test the new AMG C63S.

[SteveC]

I actually bought an M135i to drive until the M3 was released. I loved the M135i, a real little hot chilli pepper of a car. When the M3 was released I took one for a test drive and was slightly underwhelmed. It felt a little faster than the M135i but only at higher revs. At low revs the M135i pulled a good deal harder. The suspension on the M3 felt more sophisticated but overall I wasn't convinced.

Then I tried the M5...power and low down torque were better, the cabin more luxurious and overall it felt a lot more exciting to drive in M mode than either the M135i or the M3.

I drive a lot of fairly twisty B roads and while the M3 is the more nimble, the M5 is still pretty capable. Surprisingly so for the weight and really flies out of corners. The steering is better in the M5, the M3 feeling more vague and less planted

For me the M3 would be a distinct downgrade. My next car may well be an M2, given how much I enjoyed the M135i

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Overall it is a step down in my opinion but it can be a step up in certain ways too.

The M3 has some advantages. It is in general more nimble and easier to drive on a track. In my opinion the Active Sound in the M3 is more pronounced and aggressive giving a more sporty driving experience (if only you intend on keeping the stock exhaust on the car).

The F10 is a big car and to some can be a detractor and also a liability ( public parking). But the F10 can do everything an M3 can do better with the exception of obtaining a better lap time on a race track. Also most people can't or don't want to spend $100k on a sports sedan, and I think that the price differential is the reason why most people buy an M3 rather than M5, even though most M3 owners won't admit it. In the test between the 30 Year M5 and M4, the M5 was only 2/10 of a second slower around the same track. The M3 is a cheaper car to drive on the track too, brake pads and rotors won't cost as much. Then again fighting the weight in the corners with the M5 isn't exactly the most fun either, but it can still outpace 90% of the cars out there today.

Where I think the real advantage is of the M5 is the luxury, comfort, and utility of it. Whenever I see an M4 in stuck in bumper to bumper traffic, I always think to myself, yeah how are you liking that 900lbs difference, it's real useful being stuck in traffic isn't it? Meanwhile I'm sitting in some really comfortable seats, listening to my Bang & Olufsen, surrounded by Full Merino Leather and enjoying my butt massagers while in the same traffic jam.

If you can afford either car just fine, my advice is if you intend on tracking, buy the M3, if not buy the M5. Besides at lower speeds the real hydraulic steering of the M5 feels so good. The electric steering in the M3, you can't feel anything. I've also heard M3 owner friends of mine say that the one piece seat in the M3 is uncomfortable over time. Also Seat Ventilation is really nice in the summer.

Forgot to mention the power close trunk. Love that feature. Lol!

As always you have great points.
According to lap time, I believe 30 Jahre M5 is even faster than M3/M4 on most tracks including Nurburgring. In that video you mentioned (EVO) the guy who drove both cars, is an M4 owner with about 6 months driving experience behind the wheel of his M4 and no experience with M5. You and everybody knows having reasonable seat time on these monsters (M5/M6) will improve skill and increase the confidence of driving them. My point is if you know how to push these cars to the limit, then you will see how fast and nimble they are regardless of size and weight since they are truth sport cars... M5/M6 are well balanced cars and I believe the engine, transmission, differential and suspension are just right for them. I test drove several M3/M4 with MT or DCT, but non of them gave me the feeling I have behind the wheel of my M6 as far as power,torque and reliability...The couple hundred lb over weight, is the cost of power and I don't mind to pay that cost

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

As always you have great points.
According to lap time, I believe 30 Jahre M5 is even faster than M3/M4 on most tracks including Nurburgring. In that video you mentioned (EVO) the guy who drove both cars, is an M4 owner with about 6 months driving experience behind the wheel of his M4 and no experience with M5. You and everybody knows having reasonable seat time on these monsters (M5/M6) will improve skill and increase the confidence of driving them. My point is if you know how to push these cars to the limit, then you will see how fast and nimble they are regardless of size and weight since they are truth sport cars... M5/M6 are well balanced cars and I believe the engine, transmission, differential and suspension are just right for them. I test drove several M3/M4 with MT or DCT, but non of them gave me the feeling I have behind the wheel of my M6 as far as power,torque and reliability...The couple hundred lb over weight, is the cost of power and I don't mind to pay that cost

And I no kidding saw an M4 stuck in traffic today too. It was mineral grey.

Yesterday I passed by a dude in a black Ferrari 458 Spyder in downtown DC on my way home from work. It was a beautiful day and he had the top down. I revved my engine then he revved his and I thought to myself, now there's a gentlemen who knows how to do it right. Lol! I want a 458 so bad!

[IshR]

M5 to M3 is a downgrade imo.

I saw them next to each other at my local bmw garage last weekend. From pictures I thought I preferred the look of the m3. However in the flesh, the M5 looks like a beast! It has so much more presence.

Then there's the engine, I hate straight six engines because they sound so dull and monotone in comparison to V8s (and V10s).

No matter what exhaust you put on the m4, it doesn't have the tone and character of a V8.
F10 m5 with Eisenmann Race sounds exotic and sexy.

Overall M5 is more powerful, more luxurious and more prestigious.

[Knicks_fan2]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

And I no kidding saw an M4 stuck in traffic today too. It was mineral grey.

Yesterday I passed by a dude in a black Ferrari 458 Spyder in downtown DC on my way home from work. It was a beautiful day and he had the top down. I revved my engine then he revved his and I thought to myself, now there's a gentlemen who knows how to do it right. Lol! I want a 458 so bad!

Saw an ice blue 458 rolling through F Street a few weeks ago and the driver was John Wall. Hah!

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by Knicks_fan2

Also, re op, I would hold off on any decision there until you can test the new AMG C63S.

Knicks_Fan has a good point here too.

I saw the new C63 AMG at the Autoshow for the first time a couple of weeks ago. Man it really does look like a mini S-Class. The interior is better than the M3 and with over 500hp from the factory in the S model that's something to really consider. I think it's only 150lvs heavier than the M3 too.

[stealth.pilot]

It is a step down. That's why they have a lower MSRP.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

It is a step down. That's why they have a lower MSRP.

Exactly

[///M ARMY]

Test drive the M3. Its different from the F10 platform. Opted to get the M3 over the M5. M5 is great but wishing and hoping in a few years it will be AWD. If you don't like the M3 the new C63 is something to consider.

[Knicks_fan2]

Originally Posted by ///M ARMY

Test drive the M3. Its different from the F10 platform. Opted to get the M3 over the M5. M5 is great but wishing and hoping in a few years it will be AWD. If you don't like the M3 the new C63 is something to consider.

Agree that one should test both as they are just different propositions. That said, what makes you want the M5 in AWD without wanting the same for the M3? It is my understanding that the M3 is even more traction compromised than the M5.

[///M ARMY]

Originally Posted by Knicks_fan2

Agree that one should test both as they are just different propositions. That said, what makes you want the M5 in AWD without wanting the same for the M3? It is my understanding that the M3 is even more traction compromised than the M5.

Currently the m3 does have traction issues over and gets worse 550whp with the jb4. There are different maps that help with the traction and power so that its spread out over all the rpm range. Drove jb4 m5 and it's a great car but not for me. Yes it's more features than a m3 but feels heavier, bulky seats but that v8tt is something else. M3 to me personally seats feel better. Now everyone has there own opinion and preference. If the new m5 had awd and more power, I would buy it now and twice on Sunday. I'm considering getting the new c63s.

[Knicks_fan2]

Originally Posted by ///M ARMY

Currently the m3 does have traction issues over and gets worse 550whp with the jb4. There are different maps that help with the traction and power so that its spread out over all the rpm range. Drove jb4 m5 and it's a great car but not for me. Yes it's more features than a m3 but feels heavier, bulky seats but that v8tt is something else. M3 to me personally seats feel better. Now everyone has there own opinion and preference. If the new m5 had awd and more power, I would buy it now and twice on Sunday. I'm considering getting the new c63s.

The M5 is definitely heavier and bulkier and one who doesn't understand that before getting it as opposed to something like an M3 is likely to feel disappointed by these factors. To me, as stated by M6 coupe, it is the added penalty of increased power/comfort. The actual duality of the M5 is what made it the best car for me. I took a road trip with my family this weekend and it's not as if I was subjecting them to a spirited drive so enjoying the comfort of the M5 (especially for them) drove home exactly why I got this car. While the M3 has similar space, it just lags (purposefully) in a major way in terms of comfort/features on regular drives. When I'm alone, though, I can go nuts (within the confines of the law)

In the abstract though, I could definitely see certain folks who would want a less comfortable, more nimble, four door car, irrespective of the price difference between the two and that is certainly the case with folks who have traded in their F10s for F80s.

[paddy335]

Of course it is a step down if price, size, luxury and prestige are your primary drivers, but it certainly isn't from a driving perspective.

As others have pointed out, it is lighter and nimbler than the M5, and isn't exactly slow.

It's not a given that everyone that drives an M3 aspires to an M5.