Shmee 150: BMW M5, Audi RS4 Avant OR Mercedes AMG S63

[Mani59]

[Vic55]

I like Shmees vids... good quality too. Ill say that the F90 M5 looks better in the vids than in the pictures. I still need to see one in real life though. I really like that S63 Cab.

[David 12]

Man, what a show! I agree Vic, the M5 overall looked cleaner and tastefully updated. We will just have to see how the new transmission and drivetrain plays out. I also liked the s63 cab but what the heck was up with the tarted up TTRS?

Dave

[DingolfingLove]

The F90 M5 looks so much better in the flesh - today saw a Donington Grey at BMW UK Pistonheads event & sat inside - sadly they would not start it up. I prefer its interior to the E63 and the car looks great. The carbon roof looked v nice, the new seats are v comfy.

Also a BMW UK man advised that the comp pack will be available next year with more power, different wheel & colour options.

[Bimmer6]

Originally Posted by DingolfingLove

The F90 M5 looks so much better in the flesh - today saw a Donington Grey at BMW UK Pistonheads event & sat inside - sadly they would not start it up. I prefer its interior to the E63 and the car looks great. The carbon roof looked v nice, the new seats are v comfy.

Also a BMW UK man advised that the comp pack will be available next year with more power, different wheel & colour options.

Typical BMW get the better car next year. I told myself this round I will never buy a first run BMW. They're getting like MAC over production with an upgrade kills the value of the first model. They didn't start it because they know it does not sound good. Hope the can fix that ...........still looks like an LCI of the current model.

[DingolfingLove]

In fairness the BMW man was apologetic & said it was their intention to release both the comp & standard cars at the same time, to match MB launch of the E63 & S simultaneously

[DingolfingLove]

But he did also admit that the standard exhaust sounded quite muted and if you wanted a car that sounded nice you needed the M sport exhaust

[cjackson1906]

Originally Posted by DingolfingLove

The F90 M5 looks so much better in the flesh
Also a BMW UK man advised that the comp pack will be available next year with more power, different wheel & colour options.

I guess your BMW UK man is right: http://www.bmwblog.com/2017/09/17/bm...ackage-new-m5/

[Phatcat]

Originally Posted by cjackson1906

I guess your BMW UK man is right: http://www.bmwblog.com/2017/09/17/bm...ackage-new-m5/

I doubt the ceramic brakes will be part of the CP, it will make the package too expensive.

[somer]

Originally Posted by Phatcat

I doubt the ceramic brakes will be part of the CP, it will make the package too expensive.

This is also my thinking but you never know, look at Audi's RS7 Performance pack, a 17k option which includes ceramics. Hopefully we'll get the 295's for the rear tires on the CP cars.

[Phatcat]

Originally Posted by somer

This is also my thinking but you never know, look at Audi's RS7 Performance pack, a 17k option which includes ceramics.

Yeah well, if BMW really want to differentiate CP from non CP, should include the ceramics and make it a big premium like Audi (17k+).

But if BMW wants to make more money, then I wouldn't include ceramics because I think a lot of people want the power but don't want the ceramics.

17k+ CP package would make many give it up all together.

[somer]

Originally Posted by Phatcat

Yeah well, if BMW really want to differentiate CP from non CP, should include the ceramics and make it a big premium like Audi (17k+).

But if BMW wants to make more money, then I wouldn't include ceramics because I think a lot of people want the power but don't want the ceramics.

17k+ CP package would make many give it up all together.

Yep, luckily some of the development car VIN's have CP w/o ceramics.

[Greer]

That was a very good report!

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by DingolfingLove

In fairness the BMW man was apologetic & said it was their intention to release both the comp & standard cars at the same time, to match MB launch of the E63 & S simultaneously

I doubt it was their intention. They have been playing these games for years.

If I was in the market for a sedan I would get the E63S and tell the BMW man to get his act in order.

[cjackson1906]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

I doubt it was their intention. They have been playing these games for years.

If I was in the market for a sedan I would get the E63S and tell the BMW man to get his act in order.

I agree with you re: BMW's intentions. However, the guys in the MB forums seem to be having hard time getting their cars delivered since they're stuck at the VPC. That software upgrade issue they're also experiencing doesn't sound good either. I test drove the Panamera Turbo a couple of weeks ago and it was better than I thought it would be, but I'm not sure it's worth $50k more than the F90 M5 or E63S.

[Phatcat]

Originally Posted by cjackson1906

I agree with you re: BMW's intentions. However, the guys in the MB forums seem to be having hard time getting their cars delivered since they're stuck at the VPC. That software upgrade issue they're also experiencing doesn't sound good either. I test drove the Panamera Turbo a couple of weeks ago and it was better than I thought it would be, but I'm not sure it's worth $50k more than the F90 M5 or E63S.

Pam Turbo has evolved to become more luxurious but not as capable as the latest competition offerings. Slower in both the straight line and on the track (compare to E63 S but I?m sure F90 M5 will outperform it too).

Turbo S has the power to compete but has the weight of a whale so it seems like Porsche no longer cares to be the best performer in this segment.

[cjackson1906]

Originally Posted by Phatcat

Pam Turbo has evolved to become more luxurious but not as capable as the latest competition offerings. Slower in both the straight line and on the track (compare to E63 S but I?m sure F90 M5 will outperform it too).

Turbo S has the power to compete but has the weight of a whale so it seems like Porsche no longer cares to be the best performer in this segment.

You know I thought the same thing before I decided to go on that test drive, but then I saw these two videos...let me see if I can post them correctly...

Track Test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhaG_zAEPRw

Road Test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L__S9t87JY4

[Phatcat]

Originally Posted by cjackson1906

You know I thought the same thing before I decided to go on that test drive, but then I saw these two videos...let me see if I can post them correctly...

Track Test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhaG_zAEPRw

Road Test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L__S9t87JY4

Interesting, well, that?s the first test that I have seen says the Pam Turbo is quicker.

For me SA test is still the yard stick, hopefully SA will eventually do super test on these cars.

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by cjackson1906

You know I thought the same thing before I decided to go on that test drive, but then I saw these two videos...let me see if I can post them correctly...

Track Test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhaG_zAEPRw

Road Test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L__S9t87JY4

This doesn't surprise me at all. His point is that the Panamera defies physics in the corners and can go faster through corners than the Mercedes.

This is what I expected. Porsche is much better at building cars that corner well, and the 4 wheel steering and active anti-roll bars are a huge advantage over the Mercedes.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

This doesn't surprise me at all. His point is that the Panamera defies physics in the corners and can go faster through corners than the Mercedes.

This is what I expected. Porsche is much better at building cars that corner well, and the 4 wheel steering and active anti-roll bars are a huge advantage over the Mercedes.

Seen this? The E63S is the fastest sedan and pulls amazing speeds in some corners.