Dyno'ed BMS Piggyback vs Stock - real world results - not impressive at all

[LSM]

Originally Posted by greentrbo95gst

What do you mean? At 2.2 psi increase nothing will go south. If you take your car in, it takes 3 minutes to remove the piggyback.
We definitely take a big risk with modifying these cars when it comes to warranty, but her, we have a choice.

I guess what I am saying is I would rather leave it stock and ensure no issues. 17hp is not worth any risk to me at all. I barely feel any difference anyway so why risk it....Thats what I meant. So I am taking it off and waiting for Dinan

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by greentrbo95gst

What do you mean? At 2.2 psi increase nothing will go south. If you take your car in, it takes 3 minutes to remove the piggyback.
We definitely take a big risk with modifying these cars when it comes to warranty, but her, we have a choice.

I personally don't think its ok to remove a part from a car after it has a problem and fein ignorance. In all due respect i think thats a chickens shit move (not directed at you personally Green). I'm of the you have pay to play mindset. And the gains , times and ET's are not significant enough for me given how fast my car is to be willing to pay currently . It's a personal decision at the end and there is no right or wrong answer. And also your'e impressive time can't be totally disassociated with you're considerable strip experience and skill.(IMHO it was mostly you and the stock car not the BMS)

[greentrbo95gst]

Originally Posted by LSM

I guess what I am saying is I would rather leave it stock and ensure no issues. 17hp is not worth any risk to me at all. I barely feel any difference anyway so why risk it....Thats what I meant. So I am taking it off and waiting for Dinan

Originally Posted by gmd2003

I personally don't think its ok to remove a part from a car after it has a problem and fein ignorance. In all due respect i think thats a chickens shit move (not directed at you personally Green). I'm of the you have pay to play mindset. And the gains , times and ET's are not significant enough for me given how fast my car is to be willing to pay currently . It's a personal decision at the end and there is no right or wrong answer. And also your'e impressive time can't be totally disassociated with you're considerable strip experience and skill.(IMHO it was mostly you and the stock car not the BMS)

I get both of your points and they do make sense.
If Dinan comes out with anything it will not be any different than what BMS has to offer for a fraction of the price. It has been two years and nobody has been able to decode the ECU. I believe it's time that we utilize the tools we have available NOW and enjoy.
With modifying cars it's a very fine line we are walking on. BMW does not want us tempering with their work of art, but they also can't push all the horsepower enthusiasts away. Not only they dont have a proper WRC car, but the F1 team doesnt exist anymore. Mercedes with their tunability and presence in motor sport is definitely taking a lot of clients away.
I personally cant spend $8k for the same piggy back just so it's covered under warranty and few dealerships I have been to tried to come up with unreasonable excuses not to cover certain items under warranty because the car had RPI scoops or catback.
Dealt with this with my e60.
Taking the piggy back off just eliminates one of the annoying topics as most of us know 30 hp increase on a 560hp car will not cause drivetrain malfunctions. It's a hassle that we have to deal with. Now I found someone that understands my car and fights for my rights as much as the rights of the manufacturer, but at least I dont have to take off a boost signal trigger which is what BMS is. Just food for thought.

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by greentrbo95gst

I get both of your points and they do make sense.
If Dinan comes out with anything it will not be any different than what BMS has to offer for a fraction of the price. It has been two years and nobody has been able to decode the ECU. I believe it's time that we utilize the tools we have available NOW and enjoy.
With modifying cars it's a very fine line we are walking on. BMW does not want us tempering with their work of art, but they also can't push all the horsepower enthusiasts away. Not only they dont have a proper WRC car, but the F1 team doesnt exist anymore. Mercedes with their tunability and presence in motor sport is definitely taking a lot of clients away.
I personally cant spend $8k for the same piggy back just so it's covered under warranty and few dealerships I have been to tried to come up with unreasonable excuses not to cover certain items under warranty because the car had RPI scoops or catback.
Dealt with this with my e60.
Taking the piggy back off just eliminates one of the annoying topics as most of us know 30 hp increase on a 560hp car will not cause drivetrain malfunctions. It's a hassle that we have to deal with. Now I found someone that understands my car and fights for my rights as much as the rights of the manufacturer, but at least I dont have to take off a boost signal trigger which is what BMS is. Just food for thought.

I won't be buying any boost control piggyback period. Either someone gains full control over the ECU (at least boost/timing/fueling anyway) or mine is staying stock. It's not about whether I think the car is going to blow up , it's just not worth the hassle for me. If Terry comes out with a JB4 with CAN support I'd be good with that. Just glad someone is working on the car and we are not stuck with just the 3k-8k piggyback packages that are essentially the same thing.

[Tom C]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

I personally don't think its ok to remove a part from a car after it has a problem and fein ignorance. In all due respect i think thats a chickens shit move (not directed at you personally Green). I'm of the you have pay to play mindset. And the gains , times and ET's are not significant enough for me given how fast my car is to be willing to pay currently . It's a personal decision at the end and there is no right or wrong answer. And also your'e impressive time can't be totally disassociated with you're considerable strip experience and skill.(IMHO it was mostly you and the stock car not the BMS)

I respectfully disagree, but in a perfect world I totally understand what you are saying. The problem is that BMW (and all car manufacturers for that matter) don't do the right thing. If there is any sort of major warranty claim they will blame any and all peripheral aftermarket parts and deny the claim. Then it is incumbant upon YOU to PROVE them wrong. They can claim it was an aftermarket downpipe or intake that caused the engine to go pop. BMW already blamed a set of KW springs for the warranty claim denial on a broken axle. So it isn't a stretch to think BMW will point the finger at ANY performance part to shirk their responsibility to stand by their warranty.

[Mbdurham17]

Not opposed to a tune but just out of curiosity almost everyone (forums, blogs, mags,reviews) has said there was no measurable performance difference in the 15hp added from the CP but 30 from a piggy back does make a performance difference (when starting at 560 of course) why would 15 more makes such a deference?

If a pay any money for a performance mod I would expect a noticeable performance difference ......say atleast +75 hp & tq? Not that is needs anymore anyway but if I am going to chance any problems would want it to be very noticeable.

[LSM]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

I won't be buying any boost control piggyback period. Either someone gains full control over the ECU (at least boost/timing/fueling anyway) or mine is staying stock. It's not about whether I think the car is going to blow up , it's just not worth the hassle for me. If Terry comes out with a JB4 with CAN support I'd be good with that. Just glad someone is working on the car and we are not stuck with just the 3k-8k piggyback packages that are essentially the same thing.

+1

[LSM]

Originally Posted by Mbdurham17

Not opposed to a tune but just out of curiosity almost everyone (forums, blogs, mags,reviews) has said there was no measurable performance difference in the 15hp added from the CP but 30 from a piggy back does make a performance difference (when starting at 560 of course) why would 15 more makes such a deference?

If a pay any money for a performance mod I would expect a noticeable performance difference ......say atleast +75 hp & tq? Not that is needs anymore anyway but if I am going to chance any problems would want it to be very noticeable.

And the thing is my Non CP M6 tested on a Mustang Dyno which is known to produce lower numbers than dynojet at 627 crank HP...So its not even 30, it added 17 in my case, not worth it at all for me. People can make their own decisions, my decision based on cost, effect, risk is that its def not worth it and its being removed

[LSM]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

I personally don't think its ok to remove a part from a car after it has a problem and fein ignorance. In all due respect i think thats a chickens shit move (not directed at you personally Green). I'm of the you have pay to play mindset. And the gains , times and ET's are not significant enough for me given how fast my car is to be willing to pay currently . It's a personal decision at the end and there is no right or wrong answer. And also your'e impressive time can't be totally disassociated with you're considerable strip experience and skill.(IMHO it was mostly you and the stock car not the BMS)

And I will go one further. My car made 627 crank hp stock on this mustang dyno which reads lower than some other dynos. Gaining 17hp is what 3% increase, def not worth it imo

[Tom C]

Originally Posted by LSM

And I will go one further. My car made 627 crank hp stock on this mustang dyno which reads lower than some other dynos. Gaining 17hp is what 3% increase, def not worth it imo

Please don't try extrapolating how much crank hp it made on a chassis dyno. It made what it made at the wheels on that particular dyno, nothing more, nothing less. Everyone claims the dyno their car ran on makes less than on a Dynojet or any other dyno.

[greentrbo95gst]

Originally Posted by LSM

And I will go one further. My car made 627 crank hp stock on this mustang dyno which reads lower than some other dynos. Gaining 17hp is what 3% increase, def not worth it imo

Sounds like a healthy car. Are you planning on doing any 1/4 mile events?

[LSM]

Originally Posted by greentrbo95gst

Sounds like a healthy car. Are you planning on doing any 1/4 mile events?

There is a rolling 1/3 mile event coming up was going to go to that. The event is Saturday at Willow Springs actually.
http://shift-s3ctor.com/products-page/ Lot of modified MB and BMW are going. I have never raced at a 1/4 mile track so I am sure my numbers would be pathetic LOL

[Tom C]

Originally Posted by LSM

There is a rolling 1/3 mile event coming up was going to go to that. The event is Saturday at Willow Springs actually.
http://shift-s3ctor.com/products-page/ Lot of modified MB and BMW are going. I have never raced at a 1/4 mile track so I am sure my numbers would be pathetic LOL

You should take it to the drag strip. I wouldn't worry too much about ETs and just focus on the trap speed. To me, that is the most relevant indicator of how much power you are making.

[greentrbo95gst]

I agree with Tom. Knowing how inconsistent our cars have been the only true indication would be your trap speeds or 3rd gear pulls against another car.
I tried to wiggle myself out of another event with the wife for this Saturday to go to shift sector, but it didnt work.
LSM, where are you in SoCal?

[LSM]

Originally Posted by greentrbo95gst

I agree with Tom. Knowing how inconsistent our cars have been the only true indication would be your trap speeds or 3rd gear pulls against another car.
I tried to wiggle myself out of another event with the wife for this Saturday to go to shift sector, but it didnt work.
LSM, where are you in SoCal?

SD...Would love to get together we're close

[LSM]

Originally Posted by Tom C

You should take it to the drag strip. I wouldn't worry too much about ETs and just focus on the trap speed. To me, that is the most relevant indicator of how much power you are making.

Yea I may do that.

[greentrbo95gst]

Originally Posted by LSM

SD...Would love to get together we're close

Yea, I am in Huntington Beach and my good friend lives in San Marcos so I always visit him too.

[LSM]

Originally Posted by greentrbo95gst

Yea, I am in Huntington Beach and my good friend lives in San Marcos so I always visit him too.

Sounds good, Im Downtown, so anytime you can meet let me know.....

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by LSM

The question is ...Value Wise if something goes south, is it worth the 17hp if something goes wrong with the car. I say no way even if it was free

Just FYI you keep saying 17hp but your dyno shows 30hp gained in parts of the curve. The 17hp is just a peak to peak number. Average power under the usable power band is higher. Also keep in mind with more airflow over the coolers, on a cold night, etc, gains would be much higher...

Mike

[Rotorocious]

Has Dinan ever not told anyone they are close to being done with anything?
I remember hearing that same line when the 335d came out

[Spinny02]

Originally Posted by Rotorocious

Has Dinan ever not told anyone they are close to being done with anything?
I remember hearing that same line when the 335d came out

I called them a few weeks ago. They said possibly late 14. Since its Steve's daily driver they are putting most of the attention on it and still trying to get BMW Germany to help them.

[Niko1414]

I will be at upcoming shift s3ctor roll event this Saturday with my switzer tune now on my M6.

I had great dyno gains and lets not forget the video Dave made