04-11-2016, 03:42 PM | #1 |
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Help me understand proper tune vs. Piggyback
What does a tune do that a piggyback doesn't? Does the tuner optimize afr, timing, etc on a dyno? Does a piggyback essentially increase boost without changing other parameters?
I get that a piggyback fools the computer into reading different engine outputs, how does that differ from a tune at the ECU level? Thanks Ps. Goal is 620whp, no meth, no clutches, 91 octane, limited track use (daily driver) |
04-11-2016, 06:41 PM | #2 | |
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A proper tune is as if the computer was programmed for the car to output those power levels from the factory without intercepting signals, etc.
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04-11-2016, 09:22 PM | #3 |
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so why would one go with one vs the other? say you just wanted a bit more power, but wanted a very simple setup. no race gas ect. just a simple tune to push you over the 600 mark.
piggy the way to go in this case? |
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04-11-2016, 09:32 PM | #4 | |
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04-12-2016, 12:39 AM | #5 | |
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A proper tune changes the DMEs parameters to properly to produce the power output. Those parameters are boost, ignition, timing, AFR, fuel, waste gate, throttle and few other items. Your car should feel more effluence, smoother, and have a more consistent power output. When I switched from my JB4 to the two tunes I have, it was a night and day difference. Car felt like it was breathing better, no turbo lag, power at all RPMs. List goes on. On just a flash tune stock car, I have seen tuners hit close to 670-690 whp. 620 would be very achievable if that is where you want to be.
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04-13-2016, 10:13 AM | #6 |
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AWE, AMS, Hartge, Switzer, Eurocharged, ESS, Evolve, MSR, GSR, Mission, BPM, Precision, ...
In no particular order I listed the tunes I've heard of and I'm sure there are many more. Making a decision between tunes is harder than buying the right mutual fund TOO MANY variables. They all differentiate themselves in one way or another. |
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04-13-2016, 10:34 AM | #7 |
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My M5 has been remapped since January 2015. Having the limiter removed in itself is a reason to get a remap,but the main benefit is that your car is running more optimally by all parameters being programmed into the ECU versus being tricked by a piggyback.
On warranty, I disagree that it's a big risk. If a dealer starts looking at any of our cars with FBOs you will have an issue regardless Remember DINAN does not keep your warranty intact, they offer to warranty the car themselves.
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04-13-2016, 02:21 PM | #8 |
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a flash tune operates by changing ECU variables while a regular piggy just tricks the ECU into making more boost
A more advanced piggy like the JB4, doesn't just add boost. It also controls other variables like timing similar to a flash (indirectly) JB4 will have a lot more features, flexibility, maps than a flash tune Power wise, it is similar. To get max power you need to stack both
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04-14-2016, 12:41 PM | #9 | |
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04-14-2016, 12:42 PM | #10 | |
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You will also need to change the map on your flash tune which is why we recommend adding the flash tune when all performance modding is done
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04-14-2016, 01:18 PM | #11 |
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I don't think I'm going to do DP's or any more engine mods--- I just did the Flash for some added oomph. But if the JB4 adds more to the Flash I might consider since its a cheap add.
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04-14-2016, 01:23 PM | #12 | |
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04-14-2016, 04:45 PM | #13 |
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Flash is great.
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04-14-2016, 05:12 PM | #14 | |
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04-14-2016, 06:31 PM | #16 |
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IF BMW technicians are going after a tune, flash is very easily detectable
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04-14-2016, 07:09 PM | #18 |
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A simple look on any of the AFR,Timing,Load table will show that these tables have been changed
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04-14-2016, 07:25 PM | #19 | |
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04-14-2016, 07:40 PM | #20 | |
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Technicians do not have the tools to detect changes to the DME nor is it part of their scope to do so during routine warranty and maintenance claims. However, there may be a requirement to send the readings to an engineer that will check for changes to the tables if it's a major claim. They do have the ability to detect changes to be tables. Reverting the parameters back to stock tables would would avoid this. We've been through this already at BMW between a tuned car and a BMS piggy back. The tuned car didn't show any traces of tampering or changes with their tools they have in house. The piggy due to forced changes caused errors that were saved to the DME. A trained tech can tell through those errors that something was forcing changes within the DME causing those issues. Most guys don't really care to be honest to even dig into it. I could be wrong with my theory but this is what was explained to me and what we found during our testing with a few friends at BMW. I've known two friends who were fully modified and had their engines fail due to mechanical failure. Despite all the bolt-ons and flash tune, the crate engine and labor was covered under warranty.
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04-14-2016, 10:37 PM | #21 | |
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BTW I am in LOVE with your exhaust set up. |
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04-14-2016, 10:55 PM | #22 | |
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My answer was to a hypothetical question " Can they detect if you did not flash back to stock" the answer is yes they can detect it easily. If you go back to stock, it will still be detectable but will need more work. Keep in mind that the ECU will register every time something has been written or edited Will they go to that extent? No but that was not the question As for the piggy vs flash argument, as you have mentioned it has been done to death. The way i see it, piggy will be much harder to detect because ECU thinks it is running stock boost, some agree other don't. At the end of the day, it does not matter because out of thousands of tuned cars no BMW dealership went to that extent. Flash or piggy, go back to stock before your dealership visit and you are safe
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