BMW M5 F10 vs MTM Audi RS6 (Video)

[YungDro]

thread closed....

[Stash21]

Not entirely surprised the rs6 has great traction off the line but is definitely slower under full traction. I think the dct also helps the m5.


The rs6 does sound good with sport exhaust.

The RS 4 is pedestrian compared to the m3.

[YungDro]

thread closed....

[RPiM5]

Stock F80 M3 will beat both of them.

[YungDro]

thread closed....

[wisesoul]

Find that race hard to believe. Perhaps the weight handicap, outdated 6 speed auto and AWD drivetrain losses were enough to negate the power gap?

[YungDro]

thread closed....

[shahano]

I wanna see the M5 vs. the tuned M5.

[RPiM5]

Most people don't realize the true power of the F10 M5 besides its horsepower. Contrary to popular belief I am now a believer that the M5 engine really does produce just a little over 560hp. I'd say that on a nice cold day with a low DA the power of a stock M5 is somewhere around 575-585hp with Comp Pack M5's seeing realistic power output of about 585-600hp. That is actually not a crazy amount of power as compared to other super cars out there. The true performance in the M5 is its entire package. In no particular order here's what really makes the F10 M5 so fast, even against a race of 700+ hp RS6.

- Torque! Plenty of torque to get all of the mass moving. This is even more important the higher the speeds go.

- DCT. The DCT is probably what really killed the RS6. If you've ever seen that race between the RPi Stage 2 E60 M5, making about 580hp against the stock M6 Gran Coupe that is floating around YouTube somewhere, you would see how the gear shifts take so long on the E60 M5 that you can actually see the car falling back and then lunging forward again and catch back up to the M6 Gran Coupe.

- Active M Differential. The efficiency of being about to put all the power and torque to the ground counts a lot, and I think is really the unsung hero of the F-Series M cars.

- Weight. The F10 M5 weighs less than the RS6. Less mass to move.

- Aerodynamics. I've never known an Audi that had great aerodynamics besides the R8. The Aero air flow of station wagons is even worse.

- RWD. No parasitic power loss at higher speeds. This also means massive drivetrain loss on the RS6.

- Engine ECU sophistication. You have to remember that the ECU on a 2013 M5 is going to be a lot more advanced than older Audi. Everything from fuel, timing, exhaust, etc. etc. is going to be calculated much faster on the F10 than on an older computer.

- Driver skill. This definitely has to do a lot with races as well. Except for the Nissan GTR. My 70 year old grand mother could get in a GTR and pump out a faster 0-60 than I could ever do in my F10 M5.

The part that is a complete mind fu$k is that the next generation Gxx M5 is going to beat the F10 M5 the way an F10 M5 destroys an E60 M5. Think about that for a second. We should be seeing 60-130 times maybe on par with a McLaren 12C in the next M5. It's going to be mindboggling.

Well there you have it. But yeah, bone stock F80 M3 can beat just about everything, probably including the new 640hp C7 Vette Z06.

[secretariat]

RPI M5, I picked up my F80 m3 two weeks ago in Silverstone with full black interior and I can tell you this thing is a monster. I agree it will beat both.

The C7 vette, I don't know I've been hearing and reading a lot about it and it seems to be awesome. Never drove it.

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by secretariat

RPI M5, I picked up my F80 m3 two weeks ago in Silverstone with full black interior and I can tell you this thing is a monster. I agree it will beat both.

All day every day. That 6cyl engine is a beast!

Especially if you get the F84 pickup version.

[secretariat]

I need pick up version for the winter. LOL

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by secretariat

I need pick up version for the winter. LOL

0-60 in 2.9 seconds in the snow.

[shahano]

The f80 m3 will not beat the f10 m5 on that airport stretch.

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by shahano

The f80 m3 will not beat the f10 m5 on that airport stretch.

Yes it will. All of the F80 M3 guys told me so.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Most people don't realize the true power of the F10 M5 besides its horsepower. Contrary to popular belief I am now a believer that the M5 engine really does produce just a little over 560hp. I'd say that on a nice cold day with a low DA the power of a stock M5 is somewhere around 575-585hp with Comp Pack M5's seeing realistic power output of about 585-600hp. That is actually not a crazy amount of power as compared to other super cars out there. The true performance in the M5 its entire package. In no particular order here's what really makes the F10 M5 so fast, even against a race of 700+ hp RS6.

- Torque! Plenty of torque to get all of the mass moving. This is even more important the higher the speeds go.

- DCT. The DCT is probably what really killed the RS6. If you've ever seen that race between the RPi Stage 2 E60 M5, making about 580hp against the stock M6 Gran Coupe that is floating around YouTube somewhere, you would see how the gear shifts take so long on the E60 M5 that you can actually see the car falling back and then lunging forward again and catch back up to the M6 Gran Coupe.

- Active M Differential. The efficiency of being about to put all the power and torque to the ground counts a lot, and I think is really the unsung hero of the F-Series M cars.

- Weight. The F10 M5 weighs less than the RS6. Less mass to move.

- Aerodynamics. I've never known an Audi that had great aerodynamics besides the R8. The Aero air flow of station wagons is even worse.

- RWD. No parasitic power loss at higher speeds. This also means massive drivetrain loss on the RS6.

- Engine ECU sophistication. You have to remember that the ECU on a 2013 M5 is going to be a lot more advanced than older Audi. Everything from fuel, timing, exhaust, etc. etc. is going to be calculated much faster on the F10 than on an older computer.

- Driver skill. This definitely has to do a lot with races as well. Except for the Nissan GTR. My 70 year old grand mother could get in a GTR and pump out a faster 0-60 than I could ever do in my F10 M5.

The part that is a complete mind fu$k is that the next generation Gxx M5 is going to beat the F10 M5 the way an F10 M5 destroys an E60 M5. Think about that for a second. We should be seeing 60-130 times maybe on par with a McLaren 12C in the next M5. It's going to be mindboggling.

Well there you have it. But yeah, bone stock F80 M3 can beat just about everything, probably including the new 640hp C7 Vette Z06.

Good points.

One other MAJOR factor when comparing the performance of the F10 M5 with the E60 and other competitors is the average power under WOT acceleration.



Look at the power curve. From 5800-7000rpm the engine makes a constant 560hp (slightly less from 5800-6000). This means that as you shift up to the next gear under WOT and engine revs drop from 7000 to roughly 5500rpm you start off with almost 560hp again in the higher gear! No need to wait until redline before max power is made again.

In a engine with a "regular" power curve, you only have peak power over a few hundred rpm's, just before redline.

This means that one 560hp engine isn't necessarily similarly performing as another 560hp engine... If one makes 560hp over a rpm band of 1000-1200rpm's and the other just over a few hundred rpm's, the first one will accelerate much better than the second one.

Let's compare the S65 with the S63:



In the F10 M5, let's say that the typical WOT rpm range for each gear is 5500-7000rpm (based on Youtube videos):

From the S63 dyno graph
5500rpm - 520hp
6000rpm - 560hp
7000rpm - 560hp

Average power: 547hp

In the E60 M5, let's say that the typical WOT rpm range for each gear is 6000-8300rpm (based on Youtube videos):

From the S65 dyno graph
6000rpm - 440hp
7700rpm - 507hp
8300rpm - 490hp

Average power: 479hp

So, as you can see, average power is higher for the S63, but just as important; where the F10 has 520hp available from 5500rpm and starts off in the next gear with that power, the E60 "only" has 440hp at 6500rpm. A 80hp difference!!!

That difference makes a HUGE impact under acceleration and is also the main reason the F8x is soooo much faster than the E9x, even though it only has 11hp more.

(The above rpm ranges differs depending on which gear you're in, but the F10 M5 always has a significantly higher hp rating at the start of each gear under WOT acceleration than the E60 M5. The fact that it makes 560hp from 6000-7000rpm is also a major contributor. The S65 makes 507 only over a 50-100rpm range...)

[RPiM5]

Everything you said and then considering the fact that as shift gears up there is no interruption in power delivery because of the DCT. So not only are you shifting up and the engine is dropping to 6,000rpms with 560hp available, but you are getting that power much faster. Your explanation also explains why the other videos of the F80 M3 destroying the Audi 4.2L R8 and Audi RS4 occurred the way they did.

Originally Posted by Boss330

Good points.

One other MAJOR factor when comparing the performance of the F10 M5 with the E60 and other competitors is the average power under WOT acceleration.



Look at the power curve. From 5800-7000rpm the engine makes a constant 560hp (slightly less from 5800-6000). This means that as you shift up to the next gear under WOT and engine revs drop from 7000 to roughly 5500rpm you start off with almost 560hp again in the higher gear! No need to wait until redline before max power is made again.

In a engine with a "regular" power curve, you only have peak power over a few hundred rpm's, just before redline.

This means that one 560hp engine isn't necessarily similarly performing as another 560hp engine... If one makes 560hp over a rpm band of 1000-1200rpm's and the other just over a few hundred rpm's, the first one will accelerate much better than the second one.

Let's compare the S65 with the S63:



In the F10 M5, let's say that the typical WOT rpm range for each gear is 5500-7000rpm (based on Youtube videos):

From the S63 dyno graph
5500rpm - 520hp
6000rpm - 560hp
7000rpm - 560hp

Average power: 547hp

In the E60 M5, let's say that the typical WOT rpm range for each gear is 6000-8300rpm (based on Youtube videos):

From the S65 dyno graph
6000rpm - 440hp
7700rpm - 507hp
8300rpm - 490hp

Average power: 479hp

So, as you can see, average power is higher for the S63, but just as important; where the F10 has 520hp available from 5500rpm and starts off in the next gear with that power, the E60 "only" has 440hp at 6500rpm. A 80hp difference!!!

That difference makes a HUGE impact under acceleration and is also the main reason the F8x is soooo much faster than the E9x, even though it only has 11hp more.

(The above rpm ranges differs depending on which gear you're in, but the F10 M5 always has a significantly higher hp rating at the start of each gear under WOT acceleration than the E60 M5. The fact that it makes 560hp from 6000-7000rpm is also a major contributor. The S65 makes 507 only over a 50-100rpm range...)

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Everything you said and then considering the fact that as shift gears up there is no interruption in power delivery because of the DCT. So not only are you shifting up and the engine is dropping to 6,000rpms with 560hp available, but you are getting that power much faster. Your explanation also explains why the other videos of the F80 M3 destroying the Audi 4.2L R8 and Audi RS4 occurred the way they did.

Especially considering that the S55 in the F80 makes 425hp/431PS from 5500-7300rpm! A range of 1800rpm!!!

[YungDro]

thread closed....

[greentrbo95gst]

It would be a completely different story from a dead start.

[Boss330]

Anyone noticed how awesome the M5 looks in that Youtube video?

The stance and muscular body makes the RS6 look like a tank...

[YungDro]

Originally Posted by greentrbo95gst

It would be a completely different story from a dead start.

they did from a dead start no launch control he still won and had a better launch than him video is iphone footage but its set to private unfortunately..