M5 to i8

[NlckyBlack]

Get teh i8

[TazOjla]

I personally think the front of the i8 is really nice but the back I'm not awfully keen on, if I didn't need the space I would get an i8. It's got supercar looks for a reasonable price and marginally better fuel economy than our M5's

[eleven11]

Originally Posted by (H)

+1

Am I the only one here that is not impressed with the i8 at all? Don't even like the styling, in fact really dislike it.

I've not been blown away by the photos myself, but certainly want to see one in person to see what the fuss is about. As RPiM5 suggested, wheels and a wrap would certainly improve the looks.

[ezmaass]

Supercar looks without the performance, though, is a bit of a let-down. The skinny melting tires, quickly tired electric motor, and under-powered combined HP are not befitting a car with those looks. More show than go when many other "normal" road cars will best it. It's form over function to the nth degree - reminds me of people who buy designer goods that are sub-par in function just for the logo and bling-effect.

We can say that the i8 is a first because it's in a high-end sports car price range delivering similar tech found on much more expensive ultra-cars (918, LaFerrari, etc) - and that would be true, I guess. But did the market really ask for it? And if a LaFerrari's electric motor gives out... well, it still has a 6.3L ~800hp V12 to carry the car along at true speed.

And when the crowds circle around to see the i8... "So, what's it got... a V8, V10, V12? 500hp, 600hp, more??" You can proudly respond, "Well... the 3-cylinder puts out 228hp! And it's electric motor brings that up to... wait for it... 357hp! Yes, it makes less power than $40k sports cars like a Mustang GT... but have you seen the way the doors open?"

Again, I commend BMW for trying to do something aggressive here... but it's a science project... not a true sports car (and certainly not a supercar) by function... only by looks. I think there will be quite a few people buying these that will quickly tire or be disappointed by it if their intention was to use it as such. If you want to troll around town getting some stares all while saving gas? I think it works well.

[clar]

I think u are stating the obvious here. BMW never attempted to claim the i8 is a true sports car or supercar. It has always been to spear head efficiency and dynamics. How many cars out there can boasts a CF tub? There is far more to it than simply hard core performance. If anybody buys that car intending to drag race or track it frequently, u basically bought the wrong car. If u appreciate cutting edge technology, there is nothing else out there at this money.

Originally Posted by ezmaass

Again, I commend BMW for trying to do something aggressive here... but it's a science project... not a true sports car (and certainly not a supercar) by function... only by looks. I think there will be quite a few people buying these that will quickly tire or be disappointed by it if their intention was to use it as such. If you want to troll around town getting some stares all while saving gas? I think it works well.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by (H)

Am I the only one here that is not impressed with the i8 at all? Don't even like the styling, in fact really dislike it.

Originally Posted by PhilT3

+1

Originally Posted by wrsbmw

You are not alone.............

Count on me too

[ezmaass]

Originally Posted by clar

I think u are stating the obvious here. BMW never attempted to claim the i8 is a true sports car or supercar. It has always been to spear head efficiency and dynamics. How many cars out there can boasts a CF tub? There is far more to it than simply hard core performance. If anybody buys that car intending to drag race or track it frequently, u basically bought the wrong car. If u appreciate cutting edge technology, there is nothing else out there at this money.

Right from BMW's web site:

"The BMW i8 is no ordinary sports car. It's an icon of progress — an extraordinary evolution of The Ultimate Driving Machine.® As a all-wheel drive plug — in hybrid sports car, this revolutionary vehicle combines the power of a 3-cylinder TwinPower Turbo engine and the efficiency of an all-electric motor for an exhilarating 357-hp and 420 lb-ft of torque driving experience that's every bit BMW."

So, as far as I can tell, BMW is certainly marketing the i8 as a sports car. And I think the styling leaves no mistake about it - otherwise they would have made it a four door sedan with sedate styling.

It's cutting edge - yes, can't argue with you there. But cutting edge doesn't necessarily equate to competitive. Going back to the OP's question - do I trade my M5 for this? For the money, you can get much more capable sports cars - capability being the domain and primary function of sports cars, after all. So you get a carbon fiber tub in the i8, state of the art hybrid technology, etc... but personally I don't buy sports cars to admire the state of their technology - I buy them to perform... and if they happen to perform through the use of cutting edge technology, then I'll admire that aspect too. I'm an engineer by profession, so I can absolutely appreciate great technology. But I have trouble appreciating "interesting" technology that under-performs the conventional solution it hopes to displace while costing significantly more. That, to me, is evidence of a product that's either unfit (non-competitive), too early to market, or both.

[clar]

My man, calling it a sports car doesn't equate to calling it a "true sports car." Sports cars come in many shapes and sizes including varying levels of performance. A MX-5 is a sports car for crying out loud. The statement from BMW u quoted made it very clear what the focus is. It's not being marketed simply as a traditional sports car. On your note about there being more capable sports car, I was just wondering since u are onto that, why aren't u driving a GTR? You also call a costly new product not being matured enough for release for general consumption. You sorely missed the point on economies of scale. Remember how much your FHD LED TV used to cost back in those days? It wasn't even better than CRT TVs in every way. Would anyone call them "non-competitive" in those days? No, because it delivered on other areas not possible with CRTs. Please note that new technologies tend to be very costly due to R&D costs and through acceptance by early adopters and increased production, the prices eventually become very competitive to the point of being commodity items. No manufacturers wait till their products are truly "fit" before releasing to the market cos u will never survive. Technologies used in LaFerrari or the likes will be common and affordable probably within a decade and I suspect BMW will be the company that brings that to us through the good work done on their i-cars...

Originally Posted by ezmaass

Right from BMW's web site:

"The BMW i8 is no ordinary sports car. It's an icon of progress — an extraordinary evolution of The Ultimate Driving Machine.® As a all-wheel drive plug — in hybrid sports car, this revolutionary vehicle combines the power of a 3-cylinder TwinPower Turbo engine and the efficiency of an all-electric motor for an exhilarating 357-hp and 420 lb-ft of torque driving experience that's every bit BMW."

So, as far as I can tell, BMW is certainly marketing the i8 as a sports car. And I think the styling leaves no mistake about it - otherwise they would have made it a four door sedan with sedate styling.

It's cutting edge - yes, can't argue with you there. But cutting edge doesn't necessarily equate to competitive. Going back to the OP's question - do I trade my M5 for this? For the money, you can get much more capable sports cars - capability being the domain and primary function of sports cars, after all. So you get a carbon fiber tub in the i8, state of the art hybrid technology, etc... but personally I don't buy sports cars to admire the state of their technology - I buy them to perform... and if they happen to perform through the use of cutting edge technology, then I'll admire that aspect too. I'm an engineer by profession, so I can absolutely appreciate great technology. But I have trouble appreciating "interesting" technology that under-performs the conventional solution it hopes to displace while costing significantly more. That, to me, is evidence of a product that's either unfit (non-competitive), too early to market, or both.

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by ezmaass

Well, if you could only choose between the M5 and i8? I'd pick the i8 - as said above, it definitely makes a statement, and I find it intriguing on some level.

But for the money, there are so many other options open to you. Personally, I find the styling just "ok" - it's an attractive car, but it's not "lust over it all day" beautiful to me. And the philosophy of the car isn't compatible with my desires right now - the hybrid electric drive on much more powerful cars like a 918 or LaFerrari? Sure. But the i8, at only around 3,500 pounds and $140k+, should be a 3.5s 0 - 60, 500hp+ exotic in my mind... but it's not. It's styled like one, though. Instead, you still get a "quick" car, making 357hp combined, thin tires melting on the track, and an electric motor giving out after 3 laps in testing. So for me, it feels like "more show than go" in a science project package. I applaud BMW for an aggressive endeavor, but my impression is it's not a hard-core package that'll give you what the M5 can - or any number of competitors in the price range, including compelling options like a 911 S or lightly optioned Turbo in that general price range. I chose an R8 V10 - while lacking the back seats of a 2+2 like the i8 or 911, it provides power that matches the design, and it's usable on a track - traits I feel the i8 lacks. It's no wonder so many people are hoping BMW still releases a powerful petrol version of the car.

Like I said, if you had to choose solely between the M5 and i8, I'd probably opt for the i8 given its novelty and switching up your experience. But if you were generally in the market for a powerful sports car, and you were looking to spend $140k or $150k, I don't think I would pick the i8 over the other wonderful options out there.

All points made very valid. Agree.

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by clar

I think u are stating the obvious here. BMW never attempted to claim the i8 is a true sports car or supercar. It has always been to spear head efficiency and dynamics. How many cars out there can boasts a CF tub? There is far more to it than simply hard core performance. If anybody buys that car intending to drag race or track it frequently, u basically bought the wrong car. If u appreciate cutting edge technology, there is nothing else out there at this money.

991 GT3. 9k rpm NA motor making 500 hp , active rear wheel steering to effectively shorten or lengthen the wheelbase , PDK , active motor mounts , lots of structural CF and full aluminum unibody . Actually weighs 300 pounds less than an i8 because it isn't weighed down by batteries and electric motors . Will utterly obliterate the I8 in any performance metric , and still gets almost 30mpg on the highway. Nah you're right I'll take the slow , understeer laden , hybrid 3 cylinder , for the same money .

[ghueser]

A local dealer has an i8 that two people have backed out on. Not sure why, maybe the price. They are asking $30K over sticker............and told me that this is a deal because dealers in California are getting $50K over. I have to admit that the car looks better in person than I originally expected. We opened up the doors, saw that fairly deep tub! I got in the car easily enough but oh my....getting out was a pain and not too graceful. Once inside though there is good room and did not feel cramped at all. No doubt a cool car and for now one that represents a lot of new technologies for the consumer.

[chong0]

i would do it for a few reasons:

-the rarity of the M5 is nice. The i8 would be on another level.
-i am an early adopter and love new tech (awaiting samsung edge). I think this would be so fascinating to drive frequently.
-after watching the World's greatest drag race, I was pleasantly surprised to see how well the i8 did.
-the weight!

you will get the same knuckleheads in their ZL1 or Z07 trying to race you, but it's not about that. Agree that for the equivalent amount of money a gt3 seems like a no brainer. but i don't see this as an inferior product for the same amount of a gt3, just completely different and outside the box.

[RPiM5]

Dudes, we have to remember that the i8 was never built from the ground up as a true sports car. It's in its own new segment, the hybrid sports car. Think of it as a poor mans McLaren P1 or LaFerrari. The i8 was never meant to compete with the likes of a 991 GT3. I think too many people forget that the i8 gets 94mpg. That's the true purpose of the car, efficiency. To me, I commend BMW for breaking out of the mold on what an affordable hybrid car can be, something that doesn't look like a Nissan Leaf. I think the i3 breaks out of the mold too (actually saw my first one in the wild this week, made me feel like I was living in the future).

We have to admit, that there are somethings that M5 doesn't do well either, just like any other car. I think the M5, M6, and M6 Gran Coupes are still the only cars in BMW's line up that have a gas guzzler tax on them, correct me if I am wrong.

Would I ever trade in the M5 for an i8? Most likely not. However, if a dealer was willing to sell me one at say ED Invoice, then I'd have a really rough night of sleep thinking about it.

In my opinion I think the only engines left in BMW's line that actually sound good with any kind of exhaust on them are the S63tu and the M235i Racing Car, that's it. I'm still not a fan of the S55 exhaust note although I do admire and respect it's performance. In the future, once the S63tu goes out of production, we may be left with bunch of BMW turbo engines that don't sound very good with any kind of aftermarket exhaust on them. It's hard to give up a good exhaust note sometimes. Hence the controversy in switching to an i8. I'd probably rather wait for the i9 if I was serious about getting a hybrid sports car anyways.

[CaliE90]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

991 GT3. 9k rpm NA motor making 500 hp , active rear wheel steering to effectively shorten or lengthen the wheelbase , PDK , active motor mounts , lots of structural CF and full aluminum unibody . Actually weighs 300 pounds less than an i8 because it isn't weighed down by batteries and electric motors . Will utterly obliterate the I8 in any performance metric , and still gets almost 30mpg on the highway. Nah you're right I'll take the slow , understeer laden , hybrid 3 cylinder , for the same money .

Where do I find the said 30mpg GT3 you're talking about? My buddy's 991 GT3 gets 16mpg on average daily driving. Porsche rates them at 20mpg from the EPA.

[Hockey Guy]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Dudes, we have to remember that the i8 was never built from the ground up as a true sports car. It's in its own new segment, the hybrid sports car. Think of it as a poor mans McLaren P1 or LaFerrari. The i8 was never meant to compete with the likes of a 991 GT3. I think too many people forget that the i8 gets 94mpg. That's the true purpose of the car, efficiency. To me, I commend BMW for breaking out of the mold on what an affordable hybrid car can be, something that doesn't look like a Nissan Leaf. I think the i3 breaks out of the mold too (actually saw my first one in the wild this week, made me feel like I was living in the future).

We have to admit, that there are somethings that M5 doesn't do well either, just like any other car. I think the M5, M6, and M6 Gran Coupes are still the only cars in BMW's line up that have a gas guzzler tax on them, correct me if I am wrong.

Would I ever trade in the M5 for an i8? Most likely not. However, if a dealer was willing to sell me one at say ED Invoice, then I'd have a really rough night of sleep thinking about it.

In my opinion I think the only engines left in BMW's line that actually sound good with any kind of exhaust on them are the S63tu and the M235i Racing Car, that's it. I'm still not a fan of the S55 exhaust note although I do admire and respect it's performance. In the future, once the S63tu goes out of production, we may be left with bunch of BMW turbo engines that don't sound very good with any kind of aftermarket exhaust on them. It's hard to give up a good exhaust note sometimes. Hence the controversy in switching to an i8. I'd probably rather wait for the i9 if I was serious about getting a hybrid sports car anyways.

True (All of) Dat