Motortrend: Why the F10 M5 May Be Automatic-Only

[N54B30A]

This new M5 is looking more and more like an AMG, forced inductions, auto tranny, comfort over sportiness, and electric steering. The new AMG 5.

[Eccentric]

unfortunate. But the m5 was never a sportscar. the originals only came with manuals because the auto boxes of the time did not give complete control of the shifting to the driver. Sure, keep the manual in the m3, but the m5 and m6 are Bahnburners. They're made for eating up highway miles. As a daily driver, an automatic transmission with gear-holding abilities will be fine. Oh and my DD is my M coupe, so don't confuse my posts with another manual-hater's. Im just saying that for what the car is made for -hypothetically car chases a la Ronin- the automatic will be just fine.

[MI6]

Originally Posted by auggiem3

Looks like we can end this thread - motor trend is wrong.

LMAO...........I said that like 20 posts ago after qouting an older post from Scott...

That being said the pic also confirms something else that's pretty cool-

Imola Red is baaaaaaack!

[mkoesel]

Thanks for chiming in SCOTT.

I suppose its a bad time to remind everyone that you had originally noted that the 1M was slated to offer both 6MT and DCT, but only the former made it to production. It's ok - plans change, schedules change, things get cut. Still, I only hope that the spyshot you show reflects the car that makes it into the showroom. The 8 speed Steptronic is a great piece from what I've heard (one of the best I'm sure), but there is still a tangible gap between the best conventional automatic and the best DCT. I truly hope M Division will deliver an M5 with a state of the art DCT, and continue to develop and refine this amazing technology for use in future M vehicles as well.

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

I cannot go into full detail as I have been asked not too until the first information comes through in the last days of March.

What I will say is that with M. Every choice is made to suit the car and with this car, particular attention to the drivetrain is very much a prolonged process.
This is not an 18 month project like the 1M, this car has been in very long period of development .

In M we trust.

(Clue- look at the gear knob.)

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by MI6

That being said the pic also confirms something else that's pretty cool-

Imola Red is baaaaaaack!

That's a reflection of the passenger side of the car next to the M5 mule. Can't tell just from looking if that's an Imola M3 or not - someone else will probably know. Plus, it's hard to know from the pic whether that's even Imola or not.

Oh and BTW, boobs in review mirror may be closer than they appear.

[nick3753]

Didn't e60 M5 not come with an manual option at first, or was that just in the U.S.? If so, than maybe history will repeat itself.

[Prince_of_Persia]

Originally Posted by conradb

I'm laughing at all these comments about how BMW will go down in flames and yada yada.

Look at what makes BMW money: 3ers and 5ers. I'm not going to look it up, but it's something like 80% of their sales. Probably > 95% of those are automatics.

"The enthusiasts got them where they are!"

Ya... no. They made cars people wanted to buy, not cars a couple guys on a car forum wanted. If you want an example of a company that made cars people didn't want to buy, you can just look at Detroit. They're doing swell...

BMW will make what they want, and they'll probably make it pretty damn well. You will always complain because you think the old stuff was better than it was. If you want an old-fashioned manual everything, go buy an Ariel Atom. Heck, it doesn't even come with ABS or power steering! Now THAT'S a manual car.

BMW sells luxury cars. I don't care what you think about M cars, they're big, fat luxury cars. They're doing what any sensible business would do, not make unnecessary things that won't make them money.

Typical "Automatic" BMW driver!!! Oh and he drives an M3!

[sward]

E60 M5 can't be ordered with a manual transmission in Sweden and I think that goes for all of Europe. I think that was a north American option only

[SCOTT26]

Let me tell you something which is possibly regular for a greater majority of M5 owners?

I work within three locations in Munich , plus I have to visit other places across the city and in somecases across Germany and if I have to go location scouting or shooting in Europe I end up driving because my car also makes a good chase car and camera car.

To be selective at the least I would say there is very few times when I use the paddles or the push-pull of my SMG gearbox.
Normally I just slide into "Drive" and let the car do the rest... it is not because I am lazy .... far from it. it just makes the car effortless and completes it's job.

Thanks for chiming in SCOTT.

I suppose its a bad time to remind everyone that you had originally noted that the 1M was slated to offer both 6MT and DCT, but only the former made it to production. It's ok - plans change, schedules change, things get cut. Still, I only hope that the spyshot you show reflects the car that makes it into the showroom. The 8 speed Steptronic is a great piece from what I've heard (one of the best I'm sure), but there is still a tangible gap between the best conventional automatic and the best DCT. I truly hope M Division will deliver an M5 with a state of the art DCT, and continue to develop and refine this amazing technology for use in future M vehicles as well.

M like BMW test every option . They go through a sheet of ideas and try to work it within each car. Each M has an individual philosophy at the end , but before hand each M is conceived to follow every single idea M offer.
Its then when the marketing people and engineering get to work that things stay and go. And in the case of the 1M the principle purpose was affordability. 1M had a budget that was a fraction of the BMW M5.

[footie]

Thanks for your insight and input Scott.

I suppose I should have realised a lot sooner that the Ferrari DCT and BMW DCT shared a lot in common but the application might have caused restriction in the power it was able to cope with. I still don't think the idea of an auto is such a bad one as the latest offerings are exceptional and the software tweaks now-a-days can do wonders, plus there in an inheritent smoothness with an auto that even DCT struggle to match and this is amplified with more power. If this is an M-DCT then I doubt it's a simple swap from the M3, the software tweaks among other things will have been constantly reworked to make it smoother and better suited to the job.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by TonyMeister

To be brutally honest, I don't mind if it's an automatic only, as long it beats the Panamera's time of 7:56 around the Nurburgring.

...reminds me of the Caddy CTS-V sedan.. they were eating up the fact (GM) that their head driver topped the sedan time around Nurburgring.. advertising bragging rights are valuable

[Fanta]

Originally Posted by David1

Not true. I sat in the new 6 series convertible V8TT with a 6 speed manual up at Detroit auto show last month. But, the 8spd auto will be the quicker car.

When I consider to order 6 series convertible last Satursday, my BMW SA told me that the only transmission is automatic for 6 series convertible on the order form.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Fanta

When I consider to order 6 series convertible last Satursday, my BMW SA told me that the only transmission is automatic for 6 series convertible on the order form.

You are in Canada and the Car at NAIAS was most surely US spec. There could be differences in option availability between the two countries.

[Sharbotcom]

manual transmission is an option on the US build your own site and not on the Canadian. The price difference is way out of wack when compared to USD vs CAD exchange and when comparing simularly equiped 5 series. Go figure. Also they are only available in 2010 model year.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by SamS

Looks like an M-DCT knob to me.

Looks like one to me as well....

[mundo74]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

Looks like one to me as well....

Right. No park button for your thumb means an automated manual of some sorts

[conradb]

Originally Posted by Prince_of_Persia

Typical "Automatic" BMW driver!!! Oh and he drives an M3!

I own a 5-speed E30 325ci. I love my manual on that. I bought my M3 with DCT because I know it's superior technology in accordance with performance.

[footie]

The whole speculation of whether its an auto or not will only be confirmed for sure when the final spec of the car is released but personally I don't see the big problem as some/most others clearly do, maybe I understand this car's role in the M line-up a bit better. As to shape of the lever as confirmation to the gearbox means very little either way as it's not really connect to anything, definitely not the gearbox in any mechanical sense of the word.

There's three things that you should really want to know for sure

1: will it be quicker than the one it replaced?
2: will it out perform the one it replaces in every way?
3: will it still fulfil the role of an M car?

The first two are a given, the third is one you must think about most of all, but if things like FI, automatics and electric power steering are a no-go then you will be very disappointed with BMWs in the future and with nearly all of the competition because this are things that all of them are switching to.

[footie]

Originally Posted by mundo74

Right. No park button for your thumb means an automated manual of some sorts

Why do you think that?

As far as im aware this is the shifter on the DCT fitted to other BMWs and it's got a park button.

[Frosty]

..perfect!...
http://www.cafepress.com/speciesDESIGN

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by SamS

Looks like an M-DCT knob to me.

I concur. M-DCT no 6MT.

[MI6]

Originally Posted by footie

Why do you think that?

As far as im aware this is the shifter on the DCT fitted to other BMWs and it's got a park button.

Are you serious Footie?

This is a sport auto tranny- not DCT.......

Too many pints at the pub I see....