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      11-09-2013, 08:34 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B-1 Pilot View Post
Confirmation bias and financial capability bias run strong in this thread (and I'm as guilty as the next I guess)

My take if you are considering an M5 is to listen to those who own the model you are considering vs. those who don't or can't afford them... Those who don't / can't tend to poopoo the car, and be satisfied with or explain away the differences of their current car)

However those who do or have give better informed opinions and are less subjective. There are plenty of former f10 m5 owners on here who will tell you exactly why they sold, moved on, or upgraded.

The best of both worlds is the person who owned the car you have and upgraded to the M5; their thoughts are invaluable and accurate (the M5 to M3 discussion was particularity enlightening, I.e. No one downgrades from M5 to M3... They may pick up and M3 if it can be afforded).
Spot on!
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      11-09-2013, 08:35 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mchaoster View Post
I just got back from a BMW drive event in Danville, CA. I drove a M5 (without competitive package) and a M6 convertible. I also sat in a 650 grand coupe and my friend drove the M6 grand coupe.

I would have to agree with many of the comments about the M5. I was very disappointed. I've dreamed of wanting an M5 and that's the car I was going to get if I won the lottery (with ED). However, after driving it today, I've changed my mind. The car feels bloated and the steering is numb. The car doesn't have the BMW feel that I'm used to (but I've mostly driven small ones like the 3-series, 1 series, and Z3). It also has too many damn settings along with the auto start/stop. It's fast in a straight line but the steering and the handling was not tight. I also didn't like the fake exhaust sound.

I drove the M6 convertible next and it was night and day. The car felt more connected to the road. The steering was tighter (had the new steering wheel which I didn't like on the 3-series but like it better than the old M5 one after driving the M6). The sport seats were nicer and the handling was much better.

After my experience, I would not buy an M5. If I wanted that size of a car, I would get a 535i, add some tunes, and buy M3 on top of that (both used of course). I've driven my friend's 535i and a M5 it's not $60k better.

I drove my "cheap" 135i on the way home and would pick that car over the ones I drove (which was totally to my surprise since I've always wanted a M5 or M6). My car has the performance suspension and PPK.
Whilst I respect your opinion, to be honest you don't sound like the typical M5 owner/driver. I do agree that the steering is overweighted and 'numb'.
Good luck with your future car purchases.
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      11-09-2013, 09:05 AM   #69
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Quick question to those who are disappointed with 14 LCI M5. I wonder if you guys tried other competitor's cars (ex. RS6/7 E63S). Do you guys feel that those cars handle so much superior to M5? I wanted to know if you are disappointed because of your expectation or because you tried other car and those felt better.
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      11-09-2013, 09:42 AM   #70
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I don't care what these people say. They have bias and agenda. Drive what YOU like not what THEY like.
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      11-09-2013, 09:59 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mchaoster View Post
I just got back from a BMW drive event in Danville, CA. I drove a M5 (without competitive package) and a M6 convertible. I also sat in a 650 grand coupe and my friend drove the M6 grand coupe.

I would have to agree with many of the comments about the M5. I was very disappointed. I've dreamed of wanting an M5 and that's the car I was going to get if I won the lottery (with ED). However, after driving it today, I've changed my mind. The car feels bloated and the steering is numb. The car doesn't have the BMW feel that I'm used to (but I've mostly driven small ones like the 3-series, 1 series, and Z3). It also has too many damn settings along with the auto start/stop. It's fast in a straight line but the steering and the handling was not tight. I also didn't like the fake exhaust sound.

I drove the M6 convertible next and it was night and day. The car felt more connected to the road. The steering was tighter (had the new steering wheel which I didn't like on the 3-series but like it better than the old M5 one after driving the M6). The sport seats were nicer and the handling was much better.

After my experience, I would not buy an M5. If I wanted that size of a car, I would get a 535i, add some tunes, and buy M3 on top of that (both used of course). I've driven my friend's 535i and a M5 it's not $60k better.

I drove my "cheap" 135i on the way home and would pick that car over the ones I drove (which was totally to my surprise since I've always wanted a M5 or M6). My car has the performance suspension and PPK.

Another complaint about "too many damn settings"? These are starting to really annoy me. Maybe when you first get in the car and know nothing about it and have not taken the time to do some research it could be a bit confusing but come on. Just pick a setting and drive the car. If you don't like that setting, try another, IT'S EASY - that's the point. If you just don't like the car that's fine, but don't blame the number of setting choices. By the way, the auto stop/start is fully defeatable so it's stupid to complain about it. I have never used mine, it might as well not exist. Also you have better ears than I do (quite possible, I'm old!) to be bothered by the artificial engine noise, I can't even tell it's there. My other car is an E92 M3 and yes it has sharper handling and tighter steering but I would never call the M5 "bloated and numb" by comparison. I prefer "more comfortable and faster". To each his own. End of rant.
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      11-09-2013, 10:11 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJohn View Post
Another complaint about "too many damn settings"? These are starting to really annoy me. Maybe when you first get in the car and know nothing about it and have not taken the time to do some research it could be a bit confusing but come on. Just pick a setting and drive the car. If you don't like that setting, try another, IT'S EASY - that's the point. If you just don't like the car that's fine, but don't blame the number of setting choices. By the way, the auto stop/start is fully defeatable so it's stupid to complain about it. I have never used mine, it might as well not exist. Also you have better ears than I do (quite possible, I'm old!) to be bothered by the artificial engine noise, I can't even tell it's there. My other car is an E92 M3 and yes it has sharper handling and tighter steering but I would never call the M5 "bloated and numb" by comparison. I prefer "more comfortable and faster". To each his own. End of rant.
I have two setting M1 and M2 nothing else matters(:
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      11-09-2013, 10:17 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James T. Kirk View Post
The M5's feeling of isolation from the road has been a recurring theme amongst reviewers.
.
It feels fine to me, for a luxury motorsport sedan. In fact I wouldn't want it to shudden over every single bump.
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      11-09-2013, 10:18 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B-1 Pilot View Post
Confirmation bias and financial capability bias run strong in this thread (and I'm as guilty as the next I guess)

My take if you are considering an M5 is to listen to those who own the model you are considering vs. those who don't or can't afford them... Those who don't / can't tend to poopoo the car, and be satisfied with or explain away the differences of their current car)

However those who do or have give better informed opinions and are less subjective. There are plenty of former f10 m5 owners on here who will tell you exactly why they sold, moved on, or upgraded.

The best of both worlds is the person who owned the car you have and upgraded to the M5; their thoughts are invaluable and accurate (the M5 to M3 discussion was particularity enlightening, I.e. No one downgrades from M5 to M3... They may pick up and M3 if it can be afforded).
I'm pretty sure some people have done M3->1M.

That might be because both the M3 and 1M are made for less mature, younger drivers, whereas the M5 is a lot more grown-up.
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      11-09-2013, 10:49 AM   #75
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Opinions. Cute. IMHO M5>CTS/E63/RS7 (although not driven an RS7 yet but I don't like the exterior or interior).

I'm one very satisfied 2013 M5 owner. The M5 does everything well; some exceptionally well. Sure there are things I can point out that could be better but as a total package, for me this is still the best all around sedan/saloon on the market.
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      11-09-2013, 11:07 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B-1 Pilot View Post
their thoughts are invaluable and accurate
Their "thoughts" are as useless as the thoughts of any other random, virtual person who, for example, might find one type of female/male more attractive than the other or one brand of cheese more tasty than the other. A rational human being should never listen to such subjective opinions and instead must ALWAYS base his/her opinion on personal first-hand experience

The ONLY objective info that should be taken into account are the numerical data/specifications (like the weight, the physical size, the acceleration numbers, the price and so on) and the data about potential non-subjective manufacturing defects.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJohn View Post
These are starting to really annoy me.
If other people's subjective opinions "annoy" you - you should disconnect all of your devices from internet and move far, far away from any civilization... Or perhaps join a religious cult of some sort

Last edited by AlexK; 11-09-2013 at 11:15 AM..
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      11-09-2013, 11:47 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexK View Post
Their "thoughts" are as useless as the thoughts of any other random, virtual person who, for example, might find one type of female/male more attractive than the other or one brand of cheese more tasty than the other. A rational human being should never listen to such subjective opinions and instead must ALWAYS base his/her opinion on personal first-hand experience

The ONLY objective info that should be taken into account are the numerical data/specifications (like the weight, the physical size, the acceleration numbers, the price and so on) and the data about potential non-subjective manufacturing defects.


If other people's subjective opinions "annoy" you - you should disconnect all of your devices from internet and move far, far away from any civilization... Or perhaps join a religious cult of some sort
I have joined a cult, the Cult of the F10 M5. Entry fee was a little steep. Not guite ready to disconnect everything and move away over being "annoyed". If it gets to "exacerbated" I'm heading for the hills.
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      11-09-2013, 06:49 PM   #78
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Buying a car is so subjective as well as based on personal wants and needs, you cannot make a car that appeals to all audiences. I don't understand how reviewing a car in some remote location gives someone the authority to make a decision for some prospective buyer. The perfect car is the one that makes its owners happier then any other car. The M5 has a specific audience, just like the S/RS lines and AMG lines.
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      11-10-2013, 06:31 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhirm5
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawgone View Post
Also, BMW interiors are a little on the cheap side this generation. They're cutting costs and it shows. Why not hold them accountable for that too? I personally don't like the look of Caddy's but they have caught up to BMW in technology and quality and usually cost less. Hopefully that increased competition spurs BMW to do more rather than give less.
Not sure what you're referring to, but the current M5 interior is absolutely gorgeous; top notch materials -- much better than the last few generations. It's not even close.
I was referring to the 3 and 4 series. Sorry.
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      11-10-2013, 08:55 PM   #80
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If I won a lottery, the M5 will definitely be one of the choice in my garage as the daily drive, buying a car is such a subjective thing so I guess there is not really a purpose in arguing which brand does a better job in the segment.

But the focus here is the journalist is complaining the car is too comfortable at high speed (this is a family sedan and autobahn cruiser mind you) and the fact that a car has too much settings while BMW have already fitted a M1 M2 button to help you deal with the confusion, this is like complaining that you have too much money and don't know how to choose the appropriate ways of investing it when your financial adviser is just a phone call away.

The way I see it, if I were in my 20s, I would love a car like the M3, bumpy and ready for racing all the time, but my boy-racer days are well behind me and what I like now is comfort hence I would choose the M5 if that's the case, the journalist just don't quite understand the purpose of the M5.

I love simplicity but also like flexibility. Simplicity is M1 and M2 button or memory button for your power seats so that you can save your settings. Not replacing it with one forward, one park and one reverse button or taken your power seat out.
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      11-11-2013, 03:05 PM   #81
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I've owned my M5 for 1 year now and have enjoyed every mile of the 19K I've spent behind the wheel. I have definitely never used the words "dull, boring, numb" when describing the driving experience. The M5 is big and heavy, and sure i would have loved to see it lighter, but I knew that when I bought the car. I realize the intended use of my M5 and that's why I also own an M3 for track and weekend duties. The E92 M3 has "soul."

I do agree with most reviews of the M5, but I don't see the shortcomings as negatives. The M5 serves its purpose better than any luxury sedan on the market. And it's a blast to drive when you push it.
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      11-15-2013, 03:37 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbolag View Post
It feels fine to me, for a luxury motorsport sedan. In fact I wouldn't want it to shudden over every single bump.
You make a good point. Sometimes these reviewers are looking for a 1-series feel in every car they review. It's not necessarily appropriate for a full-sized sports sedan. In my 1M, I put up with a lot of drone and feel every pebble on the road. It's great for the format, but I certainly would not want the same if I were in a M5.
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      11-16-2013, 12:28 AM   #83
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JL is pure sleaze when it comes to anything BMW or MB. His bias against the first and blind allegiance to the latter is something you can take to the bank.

Also the CTS as COTY... well I guess the magazines are on the receiving end of that big 3 bailout money. Propping up the American car image is the new cool it seems.
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      11-16-2013, 12:35 AM   #84
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And by JL, I mean Johnny Lieberman
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