F10 M5 Video and Photos - Spied Testing Manual Transmission and Ceramic Brakes ?

[SlammedR8]

Originally Posted by bavarian19

Manual would be the only way I would buy it.

I used to be a huge Manual fan myself, but after having my M6 with SMG and driven a couple M3s with DCT...I love the technology, the quick shifts and with the DCT only, smooth shifts.


But this is ONE BIG ass car...Its not a car I would ever buy in a manual, it just doesn't seem right to me.

[htoudiee]

Originally Posted by SlammedM6

I used to be a huge Manual fan myself, but after having my M6 with SMG and driven a couple M3s with DCT...I love the technology, the quick shifts and with the DCT only, smooth shifts.


But this is ONE BIG ass car...Its not a car I would ever buy in a manual, it just doesn't seem right to me.

Agreed. DCT just is too fun to give up.

[e92_m3]

Can't really hear if the car is a manual, but since OP mentioned that it is, i'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

I can hear the turbo spooling though...

[ALPINE6SPD]

Originally Posted by bavarian19

Manual would be the only way I would buy it.

I agree 100%

[RickyRaz]

Wow. That front is starting to grow on me. Man, choosing between this or the e60 is getting tougher.

[Yogijet]

I think that it's a manual. The jerkiness and sound on start off and the jerkiness of that 1-2 shift. Sounds fairly ok too. What sounds really good is that N55 DCT. Thanks for a thrilling vid OP!

[michal12]

Hang on a minute, the car sounds much more sonorous that previous M5 test mules! They have obviously found a way how to make the bloody turbo 4.4 sound good, too!

[tha_good_life]

they have testers in CA??? You guys can't find where they park the car and spy on it? And who's the lucky driver who gets to drive it?

[mdh]

Squeaking, huge cost, and no performance benefit. Why would you buy ceramic brakes??

[wisesoul]

Originally Posted by mdh

Squeaking, huge cost, and no performance benefit. Why would you buy ceramic brakes??

I am sure you have done extensive testing in the F10 M5 with carbon ceramic brakes and have the numbers to back up your baseless response.

[535DMSport]

The sarcasm

[ALPINE6SPD]

Originally Posted by bavarian19

Manual would be the only way I would buy it.

+1

[mdh]

Originally Posted by wisesoul

I am sure you have done extensive testing in the F10 M5 with carbon ceramic brakes and have the numbers to back up your baseless response.

I've been tracking and racing cars for some time, so I'm not sure if my response is 'baseless'. I'm also an engineer that has done consulting work for some of the major auto companies. I'm speaking from my experience as someone who races, and who knows quite a few racers. None of us use ceramic brakes in our race cars. Why do you suppose that is?

I have driven cars with ceramic brakes, read the reviews, and have seen and heard of quite a few 'events' in terms of catastrophic failure, and astronomical replacement costs. I have over 125,000 miles on my E60 M5, many track sessions, and know that a good set of pads, race fluid, and if necessary, calipers, rotors and cooling will be all any street car will ever need on the track.

But you certainly seem like someone who knows what they're talking about. I'm just not sure why you think ceramic brakes are a good thing to order for your passenger car. Why don't you tell me about your experience, and why you think people should order the ceramic brake option for the M5?

[wisesoul]

Originally Posted by mdh

I've been tracking and racing cars for some time, so I'm not sure if my response is 'baseless'. I'm also an engineer that has done consulting work for some of the major auto companies. I'm speaking from my experience as someone who races, and who knows quite a few racers. None of us use ceramic brakes in our race cars. Why do you suppose that is?

I have driven cars with ceramic brakes, read the reviews, and have seen and heard of quite a few 'events' in terms of catastrophic failure, and astronomical replacement costs. I have over 125,000 miles on my E60 M5, many track sessions, and know that a good set of pads, race fluid, and if necessary, calipers, rotors and cooling will be all any street car will ever need on the track.

But you certainly seem like someone who knows what they're talking about. I'm just not sure why you think ceramic brakes are a good thing to order for your passenger car. Why don't you tell me about your experience, and why you think people should order the ceramic brake option for the M5?

Until you have quantifiable data to prove that the F10 M5 CC brakes are useless and offer no performance advantage over the stock rotors, you pretty much did not prove anything. Some race cars don't use carbon ceramic rotors because there is something called racing regulations, and the cost of replacing the carbon rotors and pads are substantially higher than that of cast iron rotors.

[mdh]

Originally Posted by wisesoul

Until you have quantifiable data to prove that the F10 M5 CC brakes are useless and offer no performance advantage over the stock rotors, you pretty much did not prove anything. Some race cars don't use carbon ceramic rotors because there is something called racing regulations, and the cost of replacing the carbon rotors and pads are substantially higher than that of cast iron rotors.

I'm not trying to prove anything - just expressing my opinion based on my experience. Ceramic brakes can be noisy, very expensive, can fail catastrophically, incredibly expensive to replace, and don't offer a significant performance advantage. I think it is a silly option for a street car.

As far as racing, regulations, and cost, you're wrong about the regulations, right about the cost. 90% of the Porsche Cup Cars I'm on the track with use iron rotors. Some of the newer 997's are shipped with the ceramic rotors, and many teams are replacing them with conventional rotors. There is a slight benefit in unsprung weight, but no benefit in braking performance and a big disadvantage in cost. Bottom line is the winning cars are using iron rotors. If the performance benefit of ceramic rotors justified the cost, everyone would be using them.

You didn't answer my question. Why do you think people should spend more than $10,000 euros for ceramic brakes on the m5? Reducing brake dust??

[wisesoul]

Originally Posted by mdh

I'm not trying to prove anything - just expressing my opinion based on my experience. Ceramic brakes can be noisy, very expensive, can fail catastrophically, incredibly expensive to replace, and don't offer a significant performance advantage. I think it is a silly option for a street car.

As far as racing, regulations, and cost, you're wrong about the regulations, right about the cost. 90% of the Porsche Cup Cars I'm on the track with use iron rotors. Some of the newer 997's are shipped with the ceramic rotors, and many teams are replacing them with conventional rotors. There is a slight benefit in unsprung weight, but no benefit in braking performance and a big disadvantage in cost. Bottom line is the winning cars are using iron rotors. If the performance benefit of ceramic rotors justified the cost, everyone would be using them.

You didn't answer my question. Why do you think people should spend more than $10,000 euros for ceramic brakes on the m5? Reducing brake dust??

In the past, FIA prohibited carbon ceramic brakes in certain divisions. So yes in that instance it is regulated though it may have changed. Porsche Supercup series is allowed to run CC brakes, but as you have said some teams prefer not to(no doubt due to cost). Performance benefit? Less unsprung weight, tolerates more heat. While I am guessing you are talking about braking distances, yes, a CC setup does not necessarily promise shorter braking distances,but resistance to fade resulting from heat is higher in CC brakes. Failure? Anything fails. Chances of a CC rotor failing would be extremely rare. In a heavy car like the M5, I think owners may appreciate the option to spec their cars with CC brakes that can combat brake fade and last the lifetime of the car. I quoted your original response only because there is no factual basis for your claim. If they uprated the rotor size and have better pads and calipers, I am sure that they will outperform the standard steel rotors. At this point we don't know, so saying "no performance gain" like it is a well known fact is what sparked my response. Let's wait for some proper testing.