Motor Trend Video: 2014 M5 Competition vs 2014 E63 AMG S

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by Tom C

So what does that have to do with the fact that you didn't post the best numbers for the M5?

As mentioned before, I think both cars are putting down close to the same amount of power at the wheels, regardless of what the the dyno is showing. The E63 S probably makes a good bit more at the crank and has more parasitic loss through the torque converter and AWD system. Yes, the E63 S is quicker to 60mph and through the 1/4 mile, but from a rolling speed I believe the M5 CP is likely faster. Just take a look at the Motor Trend 0-60mph and 1/4 mile acceleration times.

E63 S: 0-60: 3.4s, 1/4m: 11.6 @ 121.8mph
M5 CP: 0-60: 3.7s, 1/4m: 11.9 @ 122.2mph

The E63 S takes 8.2s to go from 60-121.8mph
The M5 CP takes 8.2s to go from 60-122.2mph

I would love to see more acceleration data at higher speeds to bear this out more explicitly.

Either way, as I said before, the E63 S is an impressive performance sedan and I applaud AMG's efforts. When I purchased my M5 they had already announced the E63 S and I just didn't like the aesthetics of the interior and exterior. but that is personal taste and I prefer the M5's looks and higher revving engine. In my mind, there are no losers in this segment, just great...but different... choices (E63 S, M5, RS7, CLS63 S).

I was pulling all of my data from Car & Driver tests.

I think your opinion is both thoughtful and reasonable. In several posts, I made comments very similar to yours (i.e., both cars are incredible and that I would love to own either).

Regarding the rolling speed numbers, they're so close that I don't think you can give either car the advantage because when the margins are that thin, there are a number of variables that can come into play that can change the outcome (road conditions, weather, driver/passenger/fuel weight, etc.).

But I suppose that's the point, isn't it? That the E63 is faster than the M5 in some respects and that basically, the cars are dead-even regarding other performance measurements? The point being AMG has made some serious, positive strides in the right direction. That will only inspire the boys at the M Division.

Both of us have come to the conclusion that they're both incredibly capable performance luxury sedans.

It's a shame we're in the minority.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

I was pulling all of my data from Car & Driver tests.

I think your opinion is both thoughtful and reasonable. In several posts, I made comments very similar to yours (i.e., both cars are incredible and that I would love to own either).

Regarding the rolling speed numbers, they're so close that I don't think you can give either car the advantage because when the margins are that thin, there are a number of variables that can come into play that can change the outcome (road conditions, weather, driver/passenger/fuel weight, etc.).

But I suppose that's the point, isn't it? That the E63 is faster than the M5 in some respects and that basically, the cars are dead-even regarding other performance measurements? The point being AMG has made some serious, positive strides in the right direction. That will only inspire the boys at the M Division.

Both of us have come to the conclusion that they're both incredibly capable performance luxury sedans.

It's a shame we're in the minority.

Not wanting to spoil the agreement, but it seemed like you just backpedalled on your previous statements where you quite clearly said the E63 S was the faster car. Now they are so close one cannot really tell the difference... Is that because it was pointed out that the M5 actually was faster once rolling?

I also agree that both the E63 and M5 are capable and amazing cars. You can't go wrong in choosing either

BTW. Where DID you take those E63 S numbers from? I can't find any C&D tested numbers

The only ones I found was the one in the link that was posted previously, but they were just C&D estimates (and coincidentally similar to the numbers you posted).

[Mperial]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

I was pulling all of my data from Car & Driver tests.

I think your opinion is both thoughtful and reasonable. In several posts, I made comments very similar to yours (i.e., both cars are incredible and that I would love to own either).

Regarding the rolling speed numbers, they're so close that I don't think you can give either car the advantage because when the margins are that thin, there are a number of variables that can come into play that can change the outcome (road conditions, weather, driver/passenger/fuel weight, etc.).

But I suppose that's the point, isn't it? That the E63 is faster than the M5 in some respects and that basically, the cars are dead-even regarding other performance measurements? The point being AMG has made some serious, positive strides in the right direction. That will only inspire the boys at the M Division.

Both of us have come to the conclusion that they're both incredibly capable performance luxury sedans.

It's a shame we're in the minority.

Well, it's not that large a minority; remember not every member here posts. As me and others (Tom C, avInch, etc.) have already said, MB and AMG in particular should be applauded for stepping up their game in this segment; at least with regards to performance. At the end of the day, it's a matter of preference - not an objectively, quantifiable mathematical equation. And there are members here who desire and can afford both in their garage. As for me, I think the CLS63 complements the M5 quite well and I'd take one in a heartbeat...

[MJones3]

Originally Posted by URBAN LEGEND

Like who? Give some examples other than FTC and Urban?

Isn't that enough?

Originally Posted by URBAN LEGEND

Where is this town?

Örnsköldsvik, small coastal town about 500km north of Stockholm.

Originally Posted by URBAN LEGEND

Thread went from E63 to Audi, to leather quality, to phantom, and to hockey. Amazing.

Better than talking about Stealth at least...

[MJones3]

Originally Posted by URBAN LEGEND

Thread went from E63 to Audi, to leather quality, to phantom, and to hockey. Amazing.

And the reason it went to the Phantom is that apparently four English speaking members can't figure out what "in comparision" means.

Sorry for being so blunt about it but I'm still confused over that one..


Anyway, what was the topic again? Oh yeah Liebermann prefers the E63, lets make this a 100 page thread..

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by Boss330

Not wanting to spoil the agreement, but it seemed like you just backpedalled on your previous statements where you quite clearly said the E63 S was the faster car. Now they are so close one cannot really tell the difference... Is that because it was pointed out that the M5 actually was faster once rolling?

I also agree that both the E63 and M5 are capable and amazing cars. You can't go wrong in choosing either

BTW. Where DID you take those E63 S numbers from? I can't find any C&D tested numbers

The only ones I found was the one in the link that was posted previously, but they were just C&D estimates (and coincidentally similar to the numbers you posted).

Show me where the M5 is faster than or as fast as the E63 0-60 and in the 1/4 mile. You can pull from video reviews, instrumented tests, etc.

Good luck. Let's not even mention the E63 "S" - your task is already impossible enough as-is.

And I'm not back-tracking. More often than not, the E63, with its more powerful motor and AWD, will be faster than the M5. At rolling speeds the E63 may be at a miniscule disadvantage. Not enough data out there at this point, as other posters have pointed out.

Originally Posted by Mperial

Well, it's not that large a minority; remember not every member here posts. As me and others (Tom C, avInch, etc.) have already said, MB and AMG in particular should be applauded for stepping up their game in this segment; at least with regards to performance. At the end of the day, it's a matter of preference - not an objectively, quantifiable mathematical equation. And there are members here who desire and can afford both in their garage. As for me, I think the CLS63 complements the M5 quite well and I'd take one in a heartbeat...

Excellent post. I agree with everything you set out above.

[mstmng]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

And I'm not back-tracking. More often than not, the E63, with its more powerful motor and AWD, will be faster than the M5. At rolling speeds the E63 may be at a miniscule disadvantage. Not enough data out there at this point, as other posters have pointed out.

doesnt seem to be MINISCULE disadvantage

its just funny how the guy in 2nd video says "your car is just much faster, end of story"

[mstmng]

Originally Posted by avlnch

When you talk about numbers, the truth is that they aren't very solid unless one driver takes out both cars with a vbox and compares the data of both on the same day in the same conditions.

Even with solid numbers, what use are numbers if the rest of the car isn't as great as YOU want it or wish it to be?

I'm not a M5 fan trying to shit all over AMG. I own AMG's. I own a M5. AMG and M both build great machines. The truth is AMG is one kind of animal and M is another kind of animal. You can do different things in each and you will feel differently and have a very different driving experience in each.

Like I said before the E63S is a fast car - even slightly faster than the M5. For some the decision starts and ends there.. for others it only begins.

Everyone has their own tastes. For some the interior of the E is "nice enough", and in that case you then have a very fast car that you can be perfectly happy with.
For others, the interior isn't nice enough, and that spoils the entire car for them.

Then besides performance and interior build quality one would have to decide if they want a seven speed DCT transmission or a seven speed automatic. For some, not having a dual clutch or manual transmission ruins the car for them.

Then there is the M features like servotronic, EDC, etc. How badly do you want these features? What handles better TO YOU? What drives and feels better TO YOU? Then there is technology. Heads up display, iDrive vs COMMAND. How much does that matter to you?

Seriously.. There is a lot to consider. Not everyone will be on the same page for the many reasons I just explained.

At the end of the day they are both great cars. AMG and M are both great manufacturers whom churn out impressive products. You can't go wrong with choosing any M or any AMG. Whatever fits what you need and are looking for.

u just cannot live without all those options once u have them!

especially HUD, DCT and iDrive

[dhirm5]

Originally Posted by mstmng

The //M reeled the E63 in after the start from a dig -- what am I missing here?

[Jason]

Quit the bickering, name calling and juvenile behavior. Debate/disagree like mature adults.

[1BMW335]

Originally Posted by mstmng

doesnt seem to be MINISCULE disadvantage

its just funny how the guy in 2nd video says "your car is just much faster, end of story"

If the M5 does indeed pull at higher speeds, it's most likely due to the transmission holding the gears longer since it does have a 1k redline advantage over the E63. I'm sure this is what the average M5 / E63 owners do on a regular basis on public roads. If it's on the "internets" it must be true.

[6spdterror]

Originally Posted by avlnch

When you talk about numbers, the truth is that they aren't very solid unless one driver takes out both cars with a vbox and compares the data of both on the same day in the same conditions.

Even with solid numbers, what use are numbers if the rest of the car isn't as great as YOU want it or wish it to be?

I'm not a M5 fan trying to shit all over AMG. I own AMG's. I own a M5. AMG and M both build great machines. The truth is AMG is one kind of animal and M is another kind of animal. You can do different things in each and you will feel differently and have a very different driving experience in each.

Like I said before the E63S is a fast car - even slightly faster than the M5. For some the decision starts and ends there.. for others it only begins.

Everyone has their own tastes. For some the interior of the E is "nice enough", and in that case you then have a very fast car that you can be perfectly happy with.
For others, the interior isn't nice enough, and that spoils the entire car for them.

Then besides performance and interior build quality one would have to decide if they want a seven speed DCT transmission or a seven speed automatic. For some, not having a dual clutch or manual transmission ruins the car for them.

Then there is the M features like servotronic, EDC, etc. How badly do you want these features? What handles better TO YOU? What drives and feels better TO YOU? Then there is technology. Heads up display, iDrive vs COMMAND. How much does that matter to you?

Seriously.. There is a lot to consider. Not everyone will be on the same page for the many reasons I just explained.

At the end of the day they are both great cars. AMG and M are both great manufacturers whom churn out impressive products. You can't go wrong with choosing any M or any AMG. Whatever fits what you need and are looking for.

Couldnt have said it any better myself! Like i said before you spend your money on what you like! The E63S is a great car...i just like the M5 more!

[1BMW335]

After seeing these videos, I can see AMG owners losing sleep and hating their cars. I thought I would only see this kind of bickering in the 3 series forums.

[URBAN LEGEND]

Originally Posted by Zlaatan

Isn't that enough?



Örnsköldsvik, small coastal town about 500km north of Stockholm.



Better than talking about Stealth at least...

All valid points.

[URBAN LEGEND]

Originally Posted by 1BMW335

After seeing these videos, I can see AMG owners losing sleep and hating their cars. I thought I would only see this kind of bickering in the 3 series forums.

M5 has better hides. That's why it wins.

[URBAN LEGEND]

This thread is an all time message board/forums classic.

[UNC M5]

The Merc is just Fugly! The M5 is stunning!

[1BMW335]

Interior comparisons:

I don't think that the M5 picture does it justice because I couldn't find a similar angle with great lighting. I also tried to find a neutral balance in black, but couldn't find any nice ones for the M5. It's all subjective, but Audi seems to be the most modern looking of the 3. The only downside to the RS7 is the lack of full leather option. There are sections that are soft plastic. I haven't sat in the E63, but did sit in an E350 and the buttons, switches, and dials all feel very nice to the touch. The leather in the E63 is higher quality and I can only imagine how much nicer it would feel compared to a regular E. The M5 only feels and looks expensive if you opt for the full leather which covers the dash and leg compartments. Otherwise, you get acres of black plastic. Love the contrast stitching on the E63 and RS7. I especially love the detailed stitching on the E63's door panel.

In my opinion the E63 is right in between the M5's simple and clean approach and the RS7's spaceship clutter. The only disappointing aspect of the E63 is the COMAND multi-media interface. It just feels 1 generation behind that of the Audi and BMW. The screen resolution is high, but the UI design, interface, and use of colors look dated.


M5:


E63:


RS7:



Cockpit view:

[GoodandEvil]

I just come to leave my name in this classic thread. I vote for m5, and after driving it for a year I decide to get a new one with almost every possible options M5 offers. It is just that good, BMW M wins my heart. E63 is good, but it lacks passion, sensation, and imagination, you feel old by just sitting in its cabin. If you really want an AMG, cls63 is a much better choice.

[bm323]

Originally Posted by 1BMW335

If it's on the "internets" it must be true.

Probably that's your idea since you're an Audi guy spending so much time trying to "educate" the forummers here

Originally Posted by 1BMW335

I love how so many BMW fan boys try to discount anything negative about BMW. Look at inside line's review of the 335is from last year and compare it to their review of the S4. The 335is coupe had similar numbers to the regular 335 and the added hp and tq boost doesn't do much. The S4 still was on par and had slightly better #'s.

[vdubpower]

Originally Posted by 1BMW335

Interior comparisons:

I don't think that the M5 picture does it justice because I couldn't find a similar angle with great lighting. I also tried to find a neutral balance in black, but couldn't find any nice ones for the M5. It's all subjective, but Audi seems to be the most modern looking of the 3. The only downside to the RS7 is the lack of full leather option. There are sections that are soft plastic. I haven't sat in the E63, but did sit in an E350 and the buttons, switches, and dials all feel very nice to the touch. The leather in the E63 is higher quality and I can only imagine how much nicer it would feel compared to a regular E. The M5 only feels and looks expensive if you opt for the full leather which covers the dash and leg compartments. Otherwise, you get acres of black plastic. Love the contrast stitching on the E63 and RS7. I especially love the detailed stitching on the E63's door panel.

In my opinion the E63 is right in between the M5's simple and clean approach and the RS7's spaceship clutter. The only disappointing aspect of the E63 is the COMAND multi-media interface. It just feels 1 generation behind that of the Audi and BMW. The screen resolution is high, but the UI design, interface, and use of colors look dated.


M5:


E63:


RS7:



Cockpit view:

johnny was right about the bimmer being a fattty, look at that steering wheel, its bloated
the mercs wheel is sculpted to perfection

[bm323]

Originally Posted by vdubpower

johnny was right about the bimmer being a fattty, look at that steering wheel, its bloated
the mercs wheel is sculpted to perfection

You haven't driven the M5

ps bet the gear knob is fat too