Willow Springs Raceway w/ Hoosiers & Race Pads

[spiff]

In an effort to drive the piss out of this car, I took it back to Big WillowSprings, but this time with Apex 19" EC7's and Hoosier R7's.

19x9.5" ET 33 in the front w/ 265/35-19
10x10" ET 25 in the rear w/ 295/35-19

This car is on some version of KW springs with factory EDC components.

Additionally, this car has the Dinan/Carbahn tune & CarboTech XP 14 endurance race pads in the front only.


Holy moly this car MOVED, stopped, and carried LOADS of speed.

It took a few sessions for me to feel/find the rhythm with these couple of upgrades, but after lunch this car was an absolute train.

A friend of mine has a 991.2 GT3 and his car could NOT pull/gain any speed on the front straight even with a couple extra MPH through turn 9. There was some hopped up GT350R unable to pull as well.

The race pads were KEY components in this vehicle's success as I could brake deep into 1 from about 145/147. Right before lunch I definitely boiled the factory fluid so I did a full flush at the track with some proper RBF and there was ZERO fade.

As a matter of fact, I had two different vehicles on different parts of the track (areas with heavy braking) that either spun off or broke too late and went way off line- after me either pushing or pulling them.

Man oh man this car was so fun- and with these extra bits the car felt like a dream.

Was doing around 125-128 through 8 and could definitely carry some more speed through with some more time.


I'm a little frustrated that all of the wheel/fitment advice said that you just 'cant' run wider than 265 up front, and I'm quite confident there's room for more meat.


I have some studs coming in so will put the rears on the front and see how bad it really is. Even with the Hoosiers, there was seemingly a lot of room.


Here's a fun snippet of me driving with a well prepped E46 M3:

I waive them by at 4:50 then keep pace until they overbrake at 11:23.

[spiff]

Some fitment photos:

[RPiM5]

Good stuff!

People don't realize the F10 M5 is a track weapon with the right setup and right driver.

And yes you can run a wider front tire. I run 285mm on my fronts currently.

And let's not forget the huge advantage the F10 has over the F90, that weight over the front axle from the AWD system. It's a 132lbs difference in weight over the front axle between the two cars.

Looks like you killed it on the track. Well done.

[vafan13]

R7s on an F10 M5, I love it! The biggest limitation I had when on track was definitely pads. It is surprisingly good in turns for how big it is, but it is still over 4300lbs. It really needs to be able to maximize the power usage on the straights.

I am going to run ds1.11s on the front with ds2500s on the rear next time. What pad did you have on the rear?

[G.Ride Garage]

Badass!

[M5Rick]

In the end that M3 ran out of road..

[RPiM5]

Question on the Carbotechs. I bought the same pads a while back but I have never installed them. With them on the car, how bad do they squeal if at all? And how bad is the brake dust? Just wondering if we could possibly run these pads on the street daily.

[AR_Motorwerkz]

Originally Posted by spiff

Some fitment photos:

That looks like a lotta fun! If only tires and fuel are unlimited!

[vafan13]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Question on the Carbotechs. I bought the same pads a while back but I have never installed them. With them on the car, how bad do they squeal if at all? And how bad is the brake dust? Just wondering if we could possibly run these pads on the street daily.

Can't speak for him or on the M5, but based on the XP10s on my Mustang, i wouldn't recommend it. Still relatively new on the car, so I'm not sure the dust is any worse than the quite dusty oem M5 pads, but it can sound like a bus when coming to a stop. Fine for my '01 Cobra that's only driven for fun, but I wouldn't want it on the M5.

[spiff]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Good stuff!

People don't realize the F10 M5 is a track weapon with the right setup and right driver.

And yes you can run a wider front tire. I run 285mm on my fronts currently.

And let's not forget the huge advantage the F10 has over the F90, that weight over the front axle from the AWD system. It's a 132lbs difference in weight over the front axle between the two cars.

Looks like you killed it on the track. Well done.

Honestly this car doesn't feel nearly as heavy as it is, and I had no idea the weight difference between this and the F90. Makes me love my car more. And it's a manual

Originally Posted by vafan13

R7s on an F10 M5, I love it! The biggest limitation I had when on track was definitely pads. It is surprisingly good in turns for how big it is, but it is still over 4300lbs. It really needs to be able to maximize the power usage on the straights.

I am going to run ds1.11s on the front with ds2500s on the rear next time. What pad did you have on the rear?

Stock pads in the rear- I might try the race pads in the back, but honestly I never had an issue with only have the race pads up front, just a fluid issue because I never flushed the old stuff out.

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Question on the Carbotechs. I bought the same pads a while back but I have never installed them. With them on the car, how bad do they squeal if at all? And how bad is the brake dust? Just wondering if we could possibly run these pads on the street daily.

So at the track they made zero noise, and at speed on the freeway or even on the street they weren't loud- but if you start doing a lot of sub 45mph stopping holy SHIT they are loud. I get looks from everyone driving next to me.

Originally Posted by AR_Motorwerkz

That looks like a lotta fun! If only tires and fuel are unlimited!

I think I was averaging 6-8mpg. I put maybe 70 miles on an almost full tank and it was down to 1/4 tank. Gotta love it though...

The best part was that the fuel at the track was only like .60 more expensive than the nearby chevron. Typically when the local prices are like $3-$4/gallon the track prices are drastically higher.

[vafan13]

Originally Posted by spiff

Stock pads in the rear- I might try the race pads in the back, but honestly I never had an issue with only have the race pads up front, just a fluid issue because I never flushed the old stuff out.

Nice. Sounds like I should be fine keeping DS2500s on the back, then.

How did the brake balance feel under hard braking? The XP12s have a Mu of 0.65, which I'm betting is at least 50% more than the stock pads.

[spiff]

Originally Posted by vafan13

Nice. Sounds like I should be fine keeping DS2500s on the back, then.

How did the brake balance feel under hard braking? The XP12s have a Mu of 0.65, which I'm betting is at least 50% more than the stock pads.

Under even the most heavy braking (that I did) the car just STOPPED- no excessive ABS no nothing- worked out great.

I did the same thing on my E90 M3- just did race pads up front, more than enough stopping power and didn't upset anything with stock in the rear. I think if I ran the car for 45+ minutes at 9/10th's then maybe you'd really start to feel some unbalance- but who knows.

[spiff]

Some photos from the track photographer:

[spiff]

So I took the pig back out to Willow, and had some fun with driving and learning more about this car.

- At the last track day (just a month ago) I had to flush my brake fluid at all four corners about half way through the day due to boiling fluid (pedal straight to the floor, then pressure would build up the next time I used the brakes).

However, just at the end of the first session I was immediately having the same issue, strange as it was still cool out and I wasn't doing too much braking.

So I flushed most of the RBF600 out and replaced it with proper Type 200 Dot 4 that I had my Track Box (I love this thing). Brakes were even better with much higher day-temps.

- The Driver Front tire corded after 3 sessions- so call it 7-8 sessions in total (15-25 minutes each). This would be 'typical' given that Turn 2 really chews away at tires there, especially without any additional camber adjustments.



** Here's where it gets fun **


So in an effort to keep driving and not go back to 100% street tires, I decided to put the BBS CH-R Rears (with street Kumho-somethings) up in the front. I swapped the Hoosiers in the back to fight some noticeable wear on the driver's side.

The BBS CH-R's are 20x10.5 w/ 295/30-20 tires.

HOLY MOLY did they not only look great, but there was ZERO rub, even on full lock-to-lock of the steering wheel. Zero rubbing at high speed through Turn 8 (125-130mph entry speed through a sweeping right hand turn).

At the beginning of the day I also test fit the 19x10 Hoosiers in the front, they fit just fine as well- zero rubbing, but they LOOKED as though they would rub.

You'll see below how the Rear Hoosiers fit on the front, and the BBS's up front.

This BADLY makes me want to run square on this car. 19x10.5's everywhere would be realllllllll nice.



- I think I touched 150mph a couple of times on the front straight, which was fun.

- These carbotech pads are really something else. Zero fade, great bite, and consistent pressure (minus the fluid issues).




Next up I definitely want to do Dinan Camber Control Arms and switch over to their springs so the car levels out a little more. I don't like the extreme rake from the KW springs (from the previous owner).

[vafan13]

Awesome. FYI: As far as anyone can tell the Dinan camber arms are just rebadged and upcharged BMW arms. I don't know the part numbers off the top of my head, but they're mentioned in a few threads on this board.

[spiff]

Originally Posted by vafan13

Awesome. FYI: As far as anyone can tell the Dinan camber arms are just rebadged and uncharged BMW arms. I don't know the part numbers off the top of my head, but they're mentioned in a few threads on this board.

Oh that's good to know! Why the heck? I'd love some camber up front.

[vafan13]

Originally Posted by spiff

Oh that's good to know! Why the heck? I'd love some camber up front.

More negative camber on the front would definitely help. Only wish there was a good adjustable option as the extra -0.6 or whatever would put me up to -2.3 which is too much for the street.

Btw, what was the offset on the BBS rim you had on the front?

[RPiM5]

Awesome stuff. I would suggest that while you are in there changing the camber arms out, you should upgrade to the Dinan Monoball bushings. You will have much better feel and control and they don't wear out like the regular bushings do. And yes good brake fluid makes a big difference. Keep up the good work!

[Shellbrook76]

I’ve been tracking my M5 over the past 6 months. I’m having issues with overheating and searching for options for better cooling.

Have you had any problems with overheating on the track?

[spiff]

Originally Posted by Shellbrook76

I’ve been tracking my M5 over the past 6 months. I’m having issues with overheating and searching for options for better cooling.

Have you had any problems with overheating on the track?

No overheating issues. I don't ping the redline, I usually short shift about 500rpms which I believe is a great contributor to keeping temps down.

[Shellbrook76]

I’ll try shifting a bit earlier. I know the MAP thermostat will open earlier in sport plus mode. But I find the throttle mapping in sport plus is too aggressive for my beginner skills. I’m trying to find a way to bimmercode the thermostat to open earlier in sport mode.

[spiff]

Originally Posted by Shellbrook76

I’ll try shifting a bit earlier. I know the MAP thermostat will open earlier in sport plus mode. But I find the throttle mapping in sport plus is too aggressive for my beginner skills. I’m trying to find a way to bimmercode the thermostat to open earlier in sport mode.

Yeah just try shifting a little earlier. You'd be surprised at how much it does.

We're not making any money off these track days, and 500rpm won't give you the edge you're looking for if trying to keep up/pass/pull someone.