Thinking of purchasing used M5 or something else

[PunjabiM3]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

LOL... I didn't ask you to get M6, did I? and I still respect you if you love or hate either R8 or M6 .... and why do you take this as personal attack? Have you designed and produced the R8 by yourself ?



That's exactly the point. Comparing your experience of your ~4000 lb 310 HP (AWD?) A6 or 4900lb 255HP X5 35d (which is assumed to be AWD based on BMWUSA website) , or all under 450HP and around 300 lb-ft torque RWD cars you used to own (E46 M3, E92 M3, 997 C2S, E82 1M) with M5, the S63tu engine under the hood of 4400 lb M5 generates 600+ HP and 550+ lb-ft and transfers ~7500 lb-ft of torque to “rear wheels” at first gear … I wish you understand the difference between these numbers and your previous experiences

I was referring to the post by Stealth Pilot, not yours. Not sure why you dislike the R8 so much. It is a fantastic car to drive and is what a sports car is about: mid engine, high revving V10, fantastic handling, superb brakes, addictive exhaust note, and in my case a manual transmission. Honestly what is not to like? M5 and M6 are great cars as far as straight line speed and roll racing, but come on that is their strength and all the other things such as handling, exhaust note, and unflappable brakes are a notch or two behind.

As far as power of the M5, it is similar to my N54 powered 1M. Mine had about 360hp and 400 ft lb torque and weighed under 3400 lbs. The 1100 lb additional weight of the M5 would make it quite similar even with its 500+ torque, and likely M5 wouldn't be as snappy due to the 1M's short wheelbase. What else can I really say? I honestly love all nice cars from different brands, but the BMW snobbery is very high on the bimmerpost forums.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by PunjabiM3

I was referring to the post by Stealth Pilot, not yours. Not sure why you dislike the R8 so much. It is a fantastic car to drive and is what a sports car is about: mid engine, high revving V10, fantastic handling, superb brakes, addictive exhaust note, and in my case a manual transmission. Honestly what is not to like? M5 and M6 are great cars as far as straight line speed and roll racing, but come on that is their strength and all the other things such as handling, exhaust note, and unflappable brakes are a notch or two behind.

Haha OK , but even him... why do you think you are personal attacked by him? He was warning you about the power of M5 and even Dave (RPiM5) mentioned about what the instructor in driving school told him... you missed that part?...And I never said that I dislike R8, did I? I just said (not here) that I like my M6 more than R8 and it's just me

As far as power of the M5, it is similar to my N54 powered 1M. Mine had about 360hp and 400 ft lb torque and weighed under 3400 lbs. The 1100 lb additional weight of the M5 would make it quite similar even with its 500+ torque, and likely M5 wouldn't be as snappy due to the 1M's short wheelbase. What else can I really say? I honestly love all nice cars from different brands, but the BMW snobbery is very high on the bimmerpost forums.

No. You are not right. I hate to do calculation over and over here but your statement is completely wrong. First of all how do you compare 1M and M5 and say M5 wouldn't be as snappy due to short wheelbase of 1M? you are exactly going opposite direction. What people are trying to tell you is "due to long wheelbase of M5, it can be completely out of your control if you go sideway". Then your 1M had 360HP and 3400 lb with power/weight ratio of 0.105. in case of M5 (618 HP , 576 lb-ft of torque measured by Dinan) The power/weight ratio is 0.140 or ~33% more than your M1. In case of torque (since acceleration is coming from torque) your 1M had torque/weight ratio of 0.117 while M5 has torque/weight ratio of 0.130 or ~12% more than M1. and this is not the end of story... I assume your 1M was manual right? The manual transmission on 1M has a lot longer gear ratio than M5 DCT ( I'm sure based on your post you are willing to get DCT and not MT) ....ie 4.11 vs 4.81 in first gear while both car have almost the same FD ratio... what does it mean? it means M5 transfers 20% more torque to rear wheel compare to 1M in first gear (and second and third gear)... and overall more than 30% more torque/weight ratio compare to 1M [Torque at wheel = Torque at crank x gear ratio x FD ratio x (1-drivetrain loss)] and this torque is what people said" you have to respect".... now considering all of these how do you claim your 1M is similar to M5 ???
Bottom line, if you don't want to listen to people, it's ok but just be careful with this torque monster if you decide to own it...

[dw89]

Originally Posted by PunjabiM3

I was referring to the post by Stealth Pilot, not yours. Not sure why you dislike the R8 so much. It is a fantastic car to drive and is what a sports car is about: mid engine, high revving V10, fantastic handling, superb brakes, addictive exhaust note, and in my case a manual transmission. Honestly what is not to like? M5 and M6 are great cars as far as straight line speed and roll racing, but come on that is their strength and all the other things such as handling, exhaust note, and unflappable brakes are a notch or two behind.

As far as power of the M5, it is similar to my N54 powered 1M. Mine had about 360hp and 400 ft lb torque and weighed under 3400 lbs. The 1100 lb additional weight of the M5 would make it quite similar even with its 500+ torque, and likely M5 wouldn't be as snappy due to the 1M's short wheelbase. What else can I really say? I honestly love all nice cars from different brands, but the BMW snobbery is very high on the bimmerpost forums.

I think the M5 would suit you well since you are looking for a performance sedan that is more visceral to drive than the Audi A6, but yet is still comfortable to drive and has a beautiful exhaust note. The M3 is a great car, but as you have mentioned previously, it doesn't sound very nice and is much smaller in size+lacks some luxury features. I have never driven the RS7 and it is a beautiful car IMO. I would just test drive the M5+RS7 and decide between the two since they both seem to suit your needs.

[TazOjla]

Originally Posted by PunjabiM3

the BMW snobbery is very high on the bimmerpost forums.

C'mon buddy that's borderline insulting when you're the OP asking the guys on here for advice

[rocky]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

LOL... I didn't ask you to get M6, did I? and I still respect you if you love or hate either R8 or M6 .... and why do you take this as personal attack? Have you designed and produced the R8 by yourself ?



That's exactly the point. Comparing your experience of your ~4000 lb 310 HP (AWD?) A6 or 4900lb 255HP X5 35d (which is assumed to be AWD based on BMWUSA website) , or all under 450HP and around 300 lb-ft torque RWD cars you used to own (E46 M3, E92 M3, 997 C2S, E82 1M) with M5, the S63tu engine under the hood of 4400 lb M5 generates 600+ HP and 550+ lb-ft and transfers ~7500 lb-ft of torque to “rear wheels” at first gear … I wish you understand the difference between these numbers and your previous experiences

hey m6 coupe.....if you dont mind me asking, what line of work are you in ?

[elitex]

Go for it but be careful. As long as you respect the torque, you'll be ok.

To go off topic a little. I was completely side ways the other morning in my Viper due to cold weather and summer tires. That woke me up.

M5 will go sideways in MDM but it's pretty easy to catch.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by rocky

hey m6 coupe.....if you dont mind me asking, what line of work are you in ?

I don't mind to share.... PM sent

[rocky]

thanks....i got it !

[M3PGH]

Test drive the Rs7 before considering it. I did consider it , but I hated the transmission and the handling. The car was floaty. The engine is a beast and the looks are subjective. I don't have my M5 anymore , but in my opinion , it is a much better car. The Audi S6 is really a nice car and I loved the test drive, so this might be a consideration for you. M3, which I have on order is a great car.
As far as depreciation, you have to judge car by car rather than company by company.
An Audi S4 retains a little more value than a BMW 335, but an RS5 retains less value than an M3 at least in our area, so you can't make generalizations, but one protection against depreciation is leasing and BMW lease much better than Audi or AMG

[E90potentialbuyer]

M5 is a lairy car. I started thinking about getting the beast when we had our baby 10 months ago. One of the reason it has taken me so long to pull the trigger (in addition to being obsessive about doing excessive amounts of research) is the aspect of safety. I wanted to be sure I can handle a car of this character safely with a baby in the back seat. I have driven the M5 quite a few times now. In full disclosure, my only high performance car from before was a 2009 M3 that I owned for a couple of years. M5 is a different beast. Took me a few drives to understand the character and a bit more snappy nature of the rears. But man is it fun to drive!

M5 is a lairy car and respect the torque else it will bite hard...

[E90potentialbuyer]

Originally Posted by TazOjla

C'mon buddy that's borderline insulting when you're the OP asking the guys on here for advice

Agreed. This is some of the most fair minded group here. A few months ago I fell in love with the E63 S AMG (and still am). Look up the thread I started in BMW vs. There was no hate.

http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1058134

Good luck with whatever you decide

[GrowthEquityBeast]

Originally Posted by PunjabiM3

the BMW snobbery is very high on the bimmerpost forums.

PunjabiM3 - I have to say I share your same perspective on how this chain unfolded, and on the type of sentiment conveyed.

Was initially interested in seeing answers to your post as I'm sure we would all agree that M5 is a worthy comp for any enthusiast.

Not questioning stealth.pilot's intent, but still racking my brain to understand how he came to assume that RWD wouldn't be for PunjabiM3. We now know this was a foregone conclusion that Punjabi has refuted. Moving on.

Happened to see another post from stealth.pilot and had to share, since it plays to the effect of "snobbery"...

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthre...hlight=debadge

LOL in response to "Why debadge a BMW?", stealth.pilot posted the following ...

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

To avoid the shame of driving a 520d, 525d, or 528i

However - and this is key - if you do this to avoid the shame of being scene in one of these limp F10s, then you must also claim you are doing it for aesthetics or else face further embarrassment.

Thought this other snippet to be relevant is because it insight into stealth.pilot's demeanor (at least forum-wise) at a more granular level. If you read into the post about debadging, stealth.pilot can be seen pounding his chest as a proud M5 owner and showing his disdain for the "limp" offerings further down the F10 chain. I'm sure that SP refrains from parading his M5 around the unfortunate 520d/528 owners that apparently already face a given level of embarassment (per SP).

Logically, one might argue that stealth.pilot is looking to preclude others from basking in M5 glory if they aren't able to fully appreciate the key selling points of the M5.

Will have to chalk this up to a case of poor delivery / lack of judgment and lack of sound logic (common sense ain't so common!) on the part of stealth.pilot.

[turbo8765]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

I think that if you buy an M5 you will have the following issues:
1) You will struggle with tire spin while accelerating and be disappointed with that
2) You will either have an accident or more likely a close call by flooring the throttle in M2 mode and losing the tail.

I can't comment for the others, but I got my M5 after a long-line of high performance rear wheel drive cars, including manuals, and I knew it would be a little unwieldy and edgy, and that is what I was looking for: "a car that requires skill and which can kill you if you're not careful".

The M5 is anything but unwieldy and edgy. It has predictable understeer and a very long wheel base that makes throttle induced oversteer easy to control.

You mean to say that it will easily spin the tires, which is very true. If it's that much of a problem, use MDM or just leave everything on.

To the OP... M4 is more fun, M5 is wicked comfortable and more luxurious. Which of those qualities are more important to you?

Forget the Audi.

[Bönz]

Really. You went perusing old posts to find a way to flame SP? How does that make you better than what you claim him to be? We may not agree with each other all the time, but we are entitled to our opinions. Remember, tone of voice does not come through on a forum post. Perhaps SP was out of place in an assumption he made, but I didn't see it as malicious. SP has been a strong, positive contributor to this and other forums and certainly doesn't deserve to be attacked.

Come on guys, let's keep it friendly and upbeat. Thanks.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by GrowthEquityBeast

PunjabiM3 - I have to say I share your same perspective on how this chain unfolded, and on the type of sentiment conveyed.

Was initially interested in seeing answers to your post as I'm sure we would all agree that M5 is a worthy comp for any enthusiast.

Not questioning stealth.pilot's intent, but still racking my brain to understand how he came to assume that RWD wouldn't be for PunjabiM3. We now know this was a foregone conclusion that Punjabi has refuted. Moving on.

Happened to see another post from stealth.pilot and had to share, since it plays to the effect of "snobbery"...

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthre...hlight=debadge

LOL in response to "Why debadge a BMW?", stealth.pilot posted the following ...



Thought this other snippet to be relevant is because it insight into stealth.pilot's demeanor (at least forum-wise) at a more granular level. If you read into the post about debadging, stealth.pilot can be seen pounding his chest as a proud M5 owner and showing his disdain for the "limp" offerings further down the F10 chain. I'm sure that SP refrains from parading his M5 around the unfortunate 520d/528 owners that apparently already face a given level of embarassment (per SP).

Logically, one might argue that stealth.pilot is looking to preclude others from basking in M5 glory if they aren't able to fully appreciate the key selling points of the M5.

Will have to chalk this up to a case of poor delivery / lack of judgment and lack of sound logic (common sense ain't so common!) on the part of stealth.pilot.

LOL... welcome to the M5post forum with this introduction
So why people debadge their car in your opinion?

Originally Posted by Bönz

Really. You went perusing old posts to find a way to flame SP? How does that make you better than what you claim him to be? We may not agree with each other all the time, but we are entitled to our opinions. Remember, tone of voice does not come through on a forum post. Perhaps SP was out of place in an assumption he made, but I didn't see it as malicious. SP has been a strong, positive contributor to this and other forums and certainly doesn't deserve to be attacked.

Come on guys, let's keep it friendly and upbeat. Thanks.

+1

[Jay-K]

M5,
#wordsarenotenough *rotfl*

[GrowthEquityBeast]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

LOL... welcome to the M5post forum with this introduction
So why people debadge their car in your opinion?



+1

Thanks M6-Coupe! Slamming color you got for your M6 btw.

I'm being told my introductory behavior qualifies me as an "internet troll" but that certainly wasn't my intent!

LOL the funny thing is that I don't disagree with stealth.pilot at all. He listed very basic points which I am in agreement with. People may have a multitude of reasons for debadging including aesthetics, ease of cleaning (my OCD kin, you know who you are), shame, or even embarassment that they have an exclusive model that emits an elitist note. For the subset that debadge due to shame, I can see that aesthetics provides adequate cover.

The only difference between me and SP is that I wouldn't have interjected with a description of smaller-engine models as "limp" nor made an assertion that they should naturally feel shame for owning said models. This speaks to ego and I would recommend meditation as a remedial measure.

No reason to alienate our bimmer brethren with smaller/fuel efficient engines

[GrowthEquityBeast]

Originally Posted by Bönz

Really. You went perusing old posts to find a way to flame SP? How does that make you better than what you claim him to be? We may not agree with each other all the time, but we are entitled to our opinions. Remember, tone of voice does not come through on a forum post. Perhaps SP was out of place in an assumption he made, but I didn't see it as malicious. SP has been a strong, positive contributor to this and other forums and certainly doesn't deserve to be attacked.

Come on guys, let's keep it friendly and upbeat. Thanks.

Bönz – first of all, you radiate with good vibes!

Tone is most certainly difficult to discern, hence my due dili on old posts to gauge character. I only try to reveal pertinent facts that can be synthesized into a cogent argument. Nothing more, nothing less.

In the course of conducting diligence, I definitely noticed the contributions that SP has made and that’s why I gave him the benefit of the doubt, assuming that he exhibits some level of humility towards our poor, poor 520/528 brethren in public.

Lastly, haven’t you heard of the phrase “never be haughty to the humble; never be humble to the haughty”?

[Bönz]

Originally Posted by GrowthEquityBeast

Will have to chalk this up to a case of poor delivery / lack of judgment and lack of sound logic (common sense ain't so common!) on the part of stealth.pilot.

How is this giving SP the benefit of a doubt?

In my post, I certainly wasn't attempting to convey humility nor was I being haughty. I was simply making a point. Thanks for the good vibes comment though, I do try. If you knew me, you would know humility is something I struggle with.

Welcome to the forum - keep the posts coming. In the words of Hoover "we need the dudes".