Tuned cars, come in..

[rambino]

I got new info on this..

As per the M tech at a very good dealership.. he stated in his recent classes he was informed that BMW will now download all diagnostics on 2017+ M cars. Before, this info was sent only under big case work, but now it will be done as standard for even a filter change.

He stated the cars will have sensors in the transmission and differential that measure torque load. If either registers more than stock output, it will flag the check engine light. This wont necessarily void warranty, but the info will be sent to BMW on your dealer visit automatically, they cant control it, and BMW then can deny future claims of parts that are flagged in the computer memory.

Im assuming tuners will find a way around this, but BMW is cracking down mainly because of all the increased costs associated with warranty claims done on abused vehicles. Sucks for all of us..

[momos750]

If that is the case just check for fault codes prior to your visit and clear them. Can be easily done with Rheingold and an ENET cable. Software is free and cable is $15 on Amazon.

[TrevorM3]

Rambino, come to dyno tonight in hollywood.


Pm me

[carrera2RSL]

Interesting thread. I guess as most performance motors move to turbo, the ability to tune increases and the need to protect against warranty claims increases. Shame BMW don't offer upgrades themselves. Also interested why some tuners claim more power for the same conversion for CP cars as I thought this was just a map change ?

[Housekeeping]

Dinan.......

[babyboss]

So is JB4 detectable ?

[TrevorM3]

Piggy i would take a gamble with. NOT a flash.

[bmwdinan5]

So just reading through this thread. I purchased my M5 in late Sept (14 CP). Day 2 of ownership the engine had a catostrophic failure, rod blew through the engine block. The car was babied by the previous owner. 1.) These engines are NOT bullet proof. 2.) BMW NA approved the replacement of the engine without any data upload. In fact my vehicle has been experiencing electronic issues over the last two months and has been at the dealership for 80% of that time. BMW local field tech is involved. It was confirmed that over the last two months no data has been uploaded.

I think the whole uploading data thing is rare in my opinion. Maybe it's dealer specific. Thoughts?

[TrevorM3]

Originally Posted by bmwdinan5

So just reading through this thread. I purchased my M5 in late Sept (14 CP). Day 2 of ownership the engine had a catostrophic failure, rod blew through the engine block. The car was babied by the previous owner. 1.) These engines are NOT bullet proof. 2.) BMW NA approved the replacement of the engine without any data upload. In fact my vehicle has been experiencing electronic issues over the last two months and has been at the dealership for 80% of that time. BMW local field tech is involved. It was confirmed that over the last two months no data has been uploaded.

I think the whole uploading data thing is rare in my opinion. Maybe it's dealer specific. Thoughts?

how do u know the car was babied? did he tell you this, do you have proof?

how do you know bmw NA didn't pull info from the car? I find it hard to believe bmw would spend god knows how much to replace a motor in an m5/m6 without doing their homework. Not saying the car is tuned etc, BUT, they still need to know WHY such a failure occurred.

[ur20v]

No engine line is bullet proof, you will always have a range of failures, just some engines and marques are better than others and we are lucky with the S63tu and a good track record even when pushing up to near double the standard rated output.

[bmwdinan5]

I know the data was never shared through a number of means.

1.) I was at the dealership all morning after i dropped it off. All they asked for was photos of the hole in the block.

2.) The local BMW NA field tech walked me through their internal vehicle management tool which contains all interactions between my vehicle and BMW NA. Last upload was a year back.

I met the person who owned the car before me. A 72 year old guy who traded it in as he was afraid of the amount of power it produced. His feedback was, they saw a wealth guy come in and sold him more than he needed. Traded it in for a 535.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm sure he floored it a couple times, but no where near any enthusiast.

[Padfan9]

Originally Posted by Igor_M5

As of last week all BMW service center are running on a new system that is online 100% of the time - aka your info gets submitted directly to NA as soon as the car enters the shop floor and hooked up. Where as in the past, the hub was located directly in the dealership, where the tech's had the option to diag. scan your vehicle offline before submitting the data to NA for warranty approval.

Those confident in their tuners have nothing to worry about, in terms of the system picking up the unlock patch... I hope. I mean I know there were careless tuners doing improper patches in the past, so if their new system is actually able to spot the properly performed patches, oh man we're in for some shit.

Patches & system scans aside, those with drilled DME's (every tuned S63tu), we're all fucked. Word on the street is that on top of all this shit, recently NA sent out notices to dealers, informing service departments to keep an eye out for drilled DME's on V8TT models that are in for warranty / service and report them. So if your SA couldn't give two fucks about who you are, and if you happened to have a catastrophic failure, or something drivetrain related fails on you, I heard this will might help, group buy anyone?

So yeah... fun news. Anyone doubting the legitimacy of this new approach BMW is taking, I highly recommend you check back with your sources.

What if they don't drill the dme and instead remove ecu and then seal back using factory methods and the tune can flash back to stock? Is this still an issue?

[Padfan9]

Originally Posted by allmotor_2000

It's a fact that the information goes to BMW directly. I haven't tested the 'anti tamper' patch but it's not worth the risk. Anyways even when my trans blew I bought a used one - I mean it wasn't designed for 1000ft-lbs of torque so it is unethical to have BMW replace it.

Same goes for the engine - people have blown 30-40 motors and taken it back. BMW is obviously aware as it's an expensive RMA especially with NA labor rates.

The S63tu is a strong motor when maintained and tuned properly. I have pushed 800-1000hp for 75% of the 30K miles I have on the car. Runs like a champ. Most of the people who have blown their engines don't know what they are doing... sorry!! I can imagine this motor (mine included) getting weaker over time but for it to actually blow-up, it has to be user error or some component failed under load (injector etc.).

My $0.02 if you want to keep the car and not just turn it into Carmax and screw the next guy... is plan on getting a spare engine. Think about it.... what's the price of a 700-800hp car? Here we have a 4-door sedan that can easily push 750hp reliably.

What about bootmod3, running stage 1 at 22 psi max around 630whp (742bhp) on the V8 M6? safe?

[Padfan9]

Originally Posted by allmotor_2000

This WONT HAPPEN.

Reason: None of the tuners you mentioned above will know how to crack the BMW DME... they surely didn't for the existing version. It was BR in Europe that cracked it after significant effort. They will sell the solution to EVERYONE under the sun to recoup their investment. Each of these tuners paid anywhere form $5K to $10K depending on the HW configuration to get the base files and knowledge to edit. In fact even the OBD-II capability came from another person (I won't mention who that is...).

Nothing against these tuners... and they have done a good job to extract a safe and consistent map for these cars. However, it takes considerable HW and SW knowledge to actually crack the DME.

There is a difference between performance tuning and HW/SW decryption.

BMS is the only tuner who has actually developed HW/SW - however that is on an add-on device and not the DME itself.

BM3 has done an amazing job as well.

[Padfan9]

Originally Posted by rambino

I got new info on this..

As per the M tech at a very good dealership.. he stated in his recent classes he was informed that BMW will now download all diagnostics on 2017+ M cars. Before, this info was sent only under big case work, but now it will be done as standard for even a filter change.

He stated the cars will have sensors in the transmission and differential that measure torque load. If either registers more than stock output, it will flag the check engine light. This wont necessarily void warranty, but the info will be sent to BMW on your dealer visit automatically, they cant control it, and BMW then can deny future claims of parts that are flagged in the computer memory.

Im assuming tuners will find a way around this, but BMW is cracking down mainly because of all the increased costs associated with warranty claims done on abused vehicles. Sucks for all of us..

Only 2017+?? So a 2016 M6 is safe? Lol

[allmotor_2000]

Originally Posted by Padfan9

What about bootmod3, running stage 1 at 22 psi max around 630whp (742bhp) on the V8 M6? safe?

Yes - its safe, but make sure to use good gas

[Padfan9]

Originally Posted by allmotor_2000

Yes - its safe, but make sure to use good gas

I only use 91, are you saying certain brands like shell or chevron?

[allmotor_2000]

Originally Posted by Padfan9

I only use 91, are you saying certain brands like shell or chevron?

I mean high octane. 91-octane is a recipe for disaster...

[TheHouseWon]

So either add in a bit of e85 or run 100 octane? 100 is expensive like $8/gal

[allmotor_2000]

93-Octane is safe for a 22psi tune unless there is significant timing advance. All depends how the tuner makes the file.

[mister2d]

Originally Posted by allmotor_2000

I mean high octane. 91-octane is a recipe for disaster...

Depending on elevation, 91 octane might be as high as one can get. That doesn't make it a recipe for disaster.

[allmotor_2000]

I don't understand your comment.

Octane requirements do decrease with altitude but if you are boosting 22psi+ on 91-octane you have no insurance against a catastrophic event and are relying on the DME's knock sensors which are good but they work by actually detecting knock.