MHD vs Bootmod3

[blazarov]

Hi,
Currently running early Evolve stage2 tune from the previous owner, but not sure it might he additionally modified. Nevertheless i suspect there is a substantial margin for improvements - mostly in daily driveability smoothness, but probably a little bit more performance as well.

I have the MHD obd2/wifi dongle and the MHD monitor license using it for logging with very good results.

It seems the consensus is that OTS maps are better from BM3 than from MHD.
My car has catless downpipes and ssp clutch and the plan is to install snow performance WMI and go for custom tune by a very experienced and reputable tuner. However this process might take 2-3 months so i would like to try a stage2 OTS map in the meantime.
I have amateur interest in engine tuning myself so the ability to review and slightly modify my tune is a great advantage for me.

I am hoping to get some first hand experience for mhd vs bm3 on the following or any other topics:
1. OTS map quality. The internet has some bad reviews for MHD OTS especially for f10 m5 but they might be not as relevant anymore. It seems these guys know what they are doing so they have probably fixed the issues in their OST maps.
2. Features - obviously bm3 wins here especially with my interest in tuning myself(Map editor - i havent found anything similar in MHD), however i suspect that when you go for custom tune from a commercial tuner, editing his maps might be locked to protect his IP. Is that the case?

BM3 is more than twice the price of MHD so it has to really make sense for me. The tuner i have chosen (Utku Noa) says that he can deliver the same results with both, so it seems it is down to the above 2 factors mostly.

[ajm55]

I’m also looking at alternate tuning options. As far as I know, Utku does the tuning for Evolve. If that’s correct, how would you benefit by having him do the tune using BM3 or MHD?

Also, I would think that the Evolve Stage 2 tune would command 24-25 psi of boost (combined, of course, with richer than stock AFRs - say low 12s), and the added boost would produce enough low down torque (over 1000nm) to enhance the risk of bending a rod. Do you have plans in place to mitigate against the risk of bending a rod? - maybe a tune that caps the low down torque?

[mike@x-ph.com]

im biased but i like bootmod3 better.

MHD are coders only, they buy their maps from third-party tuners.

1- these tuners have an interest in doing customs maps, so it's not in their interest to release the best map as off the shelf

2- When you contact MHD for support, the team helping you is not the one that created the map. Their technical expertise is limited.

[blazarov]

Originally Posted by ajm55

I’m also looking at alternate tuning options. As far as I know, Utku does the tuning for Evolve. If that’s correct, how would you benefit by having him do the tune using BM3 or MHD?

Also, I would think that the Evolve Stage 2 tune would command 24-25 psi of boost (combined, of course, with richer than stock AFRs - say low 12s), and the added boost would produce enough low down torque (over 1000nm) to enhance the risk of bending a rod. Do you have plans in place to mitigate against the risk of bending a rod? - maybe a tune that caps the low down torque?

Hi,
Yes you are right about Utku and Evolve,
The issue is that my car (to the best of my knowledge) has very early version of their stage2 tune. It might also have been additionally modified by a third party tuner. It definitely feels wierd and laggy when departing lightly (thorttle maps have been modified on low load and rpm) and on the other hand very aggressive and explosive once you press hard.

I have done a lot of tests and logs and it seems my max boost target is around 22 psi and AFR targets 12:1.If you check Utku’s IG it seems he stresses on low rpm torque reduction to keep engine safe and improve traction.

I have no apetite for building the engine - it is a very expensive excercise on a car that is already old and severely traction-limited anyways.

I will be very happy to see 5.XX (even 5.99) sec 100-200 time, after the WMI and custom tune. But even if i dont reach that at least i want a smoother, more linear behaviour.

As for bm3 bs MHD my main concern is that if the goal is custom tune by pro tuner, it seems that pros/cons completely level out as their maps are locked and any functionality comes from the tuner itself and not from the platform.
Ov
Obviously BM3 is nicer (and more expensive) however you would really take advantage of the added benefits mostly if you use OTS or tune it yourself.

Is my understanding correct?

[ajm55]

Originally Posted by blazarov

Hi,
Yes you are right about Utku and Evolve,
The issue is that my car (to the best of my knowledge) has very early version of their stage2 tune. It might also have been additionally modified by a third party tuner. It definitely feels wierd and laggy when departing lightly (thorttle maps have been modified on low load and rpm) and on the other hand very aggressive and explosive once you press hard.

I have done a lot of tests and logs and it seems my max boost target is around 22 psi and AFR targets 12:1.If you check Utku’s IG it seems he stresses on low rpm torque reduction to keep engine safe and improve traction.

I have no apetite for building the engine - it is a very expensive excercise on a car that is already old and severely traction-limited anyways.

I will be very happy to see 5.XX (even 5.99) sec 100-200 time, after the WMI and custom tune. But even if i dont reach that at least i want a smoother, more linear behaviour.

As for bm3 bs MHD my main concern is that if the goal is custom tune by pro tuner, it seems that pros/cons completely level out as their maps are locked and any functionality comes from the tuner itself and not from the platform.
Ov
Obviously BM3 is nicer (and more expensive) however you would really take advantage of the added benefits mostly if you use OTS or tune it yourself.

Is my understanding correct?

I also have an Evolve tune and I too am logging with MHD. I'm looking for a tune revision because I've lost about 1.5 psi of boost since fitting CSF intercoolers. I'm guessing that all of the better-known tuners will lock their maps to prevent replication by 3rd parties and that would defeat your self-tuning objective.

If you're going to go with a custom tune rather than OTS (which is my preference), then I'm not sure that either BM3 or MHD will offer you any reward, unless you are wanting someone like Tommy Munro (Velocity Tuning) to do a remote tune (which he offers via the BM3 platform). He seems to know the platform very well. Another option to consider is Mike at BPM.

I have no personal experience with OTS maps offered by either BM3 or MHD, so can't offer any insights there other than regurgitate what I've read - which I assume you will also have read.

I'm keen to know which route you go

[blazarov]

Hi,
actually my initial choice was exactly Tommy from Velocity tuning, but he seems quite busy. He seems like also very experienced with the platform, but his preference is BM3 + JB4 for meth.
I really want to avoid JB4 or any other piggyback for that matter.

Since you are datalogging, have you measured any improvements in IAT as a result of the CSF coolers? Are these the same as the project gamma charge coolers? All these aftermarket coolers look the same and claim the same specs.
Are you running meth?

[ajm55]

Originally Posted by blazarov

Hi,
actually my initial choice was exactly Tommy from Velocity tuning, but he seems quite busy. He seems like also very experienced with the platform, but his preference is BM3 + JB4 for meth.
I really want to avoid JB4 or any other piggyback for that matter.

Since you are datalogging, have you measured any improvements in IAT as a result of the CSF coolers? Are these the same as the project gamma charge coolers? All these aftermarket coolers look the same and claim the same specs.
Are you running meth?

I have no experience with the other charge coolers. IATs with the CSF run cooler but not by a lot. I suspect they will add more value if you track the car or do repeated high speed runs (which I don’t). But for everyday driving with a few spirited runs here and there, the value-add is not significant. I certainly cannot replicate the improvements indicated by Evolve in the test they did.

I’m not running meth. Trying to keep it fairly simple but again, I don’t track the car and I’d think meth will be a good value-add to those who do. I share your view on adding a piggyback to the mix. Heard multiple adverse reports (of inconsistent performance) from guys running JB4 on this platform.