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      08-14-2012, 08:07 PM   #23
Nang Vann
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I'm sold! Manual transmissions for ever!
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      08-14-2012, 08:08 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juanpgomez2
I can see why the uptake on the manual f10s has been so low. If I had had a chance to drive one before I ordered my 550i I would have never ordered it as a manual. It is just not the right transmission for this car. It doesn't really make it more involving or fun to drive, it just makes a luxury car not fully luxury... If I can get out of it and into a DCT M5 I will do it in a heart beat. I think this will be my last manual daily driver...
This is what many were concerened about - the M5 has grown too big for a manual transmission to be comfortable and enjoyable as it should be and that (the size) takes a bit of feeling away from driving a MT.

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      08-14-2012, 10:04 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WULFFZA View Post
Matt Russell recently mentioned that later builds (compared to his own daily which is a very early build) have a rev match feature on downshifting (like the 350Z). I don't think this is what you are referring to, but did you notice this feature. Sound's like you are just referring to revs staying high when you depress the clutch?
I found that my 1m rev-matches really really easily as well. I have a harder time on other cars to keep the rev's high.

I do notice that the engine braking is a little less on the 1m than my N/a stick shift pick-up truck which has almost equal displacement (but paradoxically revs really fast).

I like the high-strung feature of the engine and enjoy being able to effortless downshift while heel-toeing.

Good job BMW. Now if only they can get my wheel bearings built to hand the cornering of the car we can be set.
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      08-14-2012, 10:34 PM   #26
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      08-14-2012, 11:27 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 宝马.e90 View Post
This is what many were concerened about - the M5 has grown too big for a manual transmission to be comfortable and enjoyable as it should be and that (the size) takes a bit of feeling away from driving a MT.
Well said. I agree completely. I have as much 3 pedal street cred as the next guy, as my last 3 cars have been manual and loved em. But this car in manual would be like putting those retarded neon lights on the washer jets/ rocker panels.

Manuals are beautiful beasts....when picked for the right car.
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      08-15-2012, 12:06 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juanpgomez2 View Post
I can see why the uptake on the manual f10s has been so low. If I had had a chance to drive one before I ordered my 550i I would have never ordered it as a manual. It is just not the right transmission for this car. It doesn't really make it more involving or fun to drive, it just makes a luxury car not fully luxury... If I can get out of it and into a DCT M5 I will do it in a heart beat. I think this will be my last manual daily driver...
I test drove a manual 550i as well as an automatic 550i a couple of months ago and had the same impression. The auto transmission definitely felt like a better fit for this car. The car also felt more powerful with the auto for some reason - I wasn't feeling the engine power as much with the manual, and found it hard to accelerate fast in a smooth manner. Maybe it's just a matter of getting used to it, though, and learning how to shift it more optimally for this car.

I don't have any experience with the M5 yet, but I would definitely pick the automatic for the 550i. By the way, the manual 550i that I test drove had been sitting at the dealership for 7 months, and it's still sitting there unsold. Another dealer here has a manual 535i which they've been trying to sell for a year and a half... They told me that demand for manual 5-series cars is zero. They said that even demand for manual 3-series cars is very small these days.
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      08-15-2012, 01:21 AM   #29
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In the one series forum, it seems that a majority drive 6MT even though the take rate is just below 10%. I really like my DCT and the discussion about how computer gear engagement helps to deal with turbo lag tends to confirm.

As it happens, I drove a 535i loaner with M Sport and 6MT for a few days. The car impressed me with its smooth ride and luxury, but for me shifting got in the way. It takes all types...
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      08-15-2012, 07:34 AM   #30
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Anyone else see a resemblance between that baby and Chris Harris?
.
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      08-15-2012, 09:47 AM   #31
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I wonder if I can retro fit that shift knob into the m3. Hmmm.
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      08-15-2012, 09:56 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juanpgomez2 View Post
I can see why the uptake on the manual f10s has been so low. If I had had a chance to drive one before I ordered my 550i I would have never ordered it as a manual. It is just not the right transmission for this car. It doesn't really make it more involving or fun to drive, it just makes a luxury car not fully luxury... If I can get out of it and into a DCT M5 I will do it in a heart beat. I think this will be my last manual daily driver...
I had an 07 550i sport 6MT and it was one of the best cars I've ever owned. From there I went to an E92 which was also an excellent car. Once my M3 lease was over, I looked at a '11 550i and like the E class, knew that it was not a car that should have a manual transmission. I'm still holding out hope for the M5 and still feel that, if the GTR or E63 had a manual, they would be much much more fun to drive. In fact, it's hard to imagine but for the first time I think that a 6MT would be more appropriate in the muscle car E63 than this refined M5.
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      08-15-2012, 10:48 AM   #33
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The drinking baby really does it for me!

But seriously, thanks for the write up. Shifter feel is top on my priority list and I'm glad that BMW offers this with a manual.
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      08-15-2012, 10:49 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James T. Kirk View Post
Anyone else see a resemblance between that baby and Chris Harris?
.
The baby has better hair coverage. But I see what you are saying
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      08-15-2012, 10:51 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James T. Kirk View Post
Anyone else see a resemblance between that baby and Chris Harris?
.
Wishful thinking
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      08-15-2012, 02:58 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nang Vann View Post
I'm sold! Manual transmissions for ever!
Plus One! Long live the 6 M/T.
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      08-15-2012, 04:06 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uhn2000 View Post
BMW M is challenged because I think there is another very good reason they did not want to build this car with MT - the turbo lag. In the DCT model it is not very noticeable because you are not controlling the gear engagement, a computer is. But, with the MT you feel it more, especially on the gear down (engine braking is delayed). I feel that M engineers have tried to over compensate for the turbo lag on the launch of the car so as to have immediate power, but when you try a throttle blip to rev match a deceleration, the engine is still very high strung and does not climb back down as fast as an NA car would. In a weird way its easier to rev match, but you need to get used to driving around the Turbo. I believe that this is the reason that DCT is not rev matching in the V8TT like the V8 NA in the M3 - its the nature of the engine.
Thanks for the thoughtful review. I'm one who agonized over the 6MT/DCT choice and finally went DCT out of respect for the designers' intent. I've never owned a car without a clutch pedal and truely enjoy the involvement of shifting myself. All in all, I'm happy with the DCT, but only because I have other cars to satisfy my need for 'involvement'.

Comments on the quoted section of your review are that the driver controls gear selection for the DCT in sequential mode, so as long as the clutch is engaged, lag is the same between 6MT and DCT. My assessment is that BMW has done a good job of minimizing lag (MUCH more responsive than my 335) but have not eliminated it.

I definately agree that the car gives its best when you drive with consideration for the fact that full torque will be on tap briefly after you ask for it, rather than immediately as on typical high performance NA engines. The flip side of this is that full torque at 2000 rpm on the F10M5 probably exceeds E60 torque at 6000 rpm, so the issue is less related to timing of power delivery as it is to 'feel' and controllability.

Your observation on engine response during throttle blips on downshifts is interesting. I've noticed something similar with the DCT and was blaming the gearbox. When downshifting on trailing throttle, the gear changes and half a heartbeat later engine braking kicks in like throwing out an anchor. I'm experimenting with a heal/toe action to reduce this effect and finding some good results. Note that from a technical perspective, turbos have less impact on the engine braking characteristics you describe than the throttle map does.

It's great to hear personal experiences from some who cares about the driving experience. Thx for posting!
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      08-15-2012, 06:22 PM   #38
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Great review, thx for sharing.

As far as the turbo lag and choice of transmission, I do recall a video of Chris Harris testing the F10 M5 (DCT) where he felt the manual may be the better choice when it comes to lessening the feel/effect of turbo lag (his rationale IIRC was the tranny was too quick for the engine which only exacerbated the feel of the lag). I'll have to dig through YouTube and find that video.
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      08-15-2012, 07:24 PM   #39
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      08-15-2012, 08:59 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James T. Kirk View Post
Anyone else see a resemblance between that baby and Chris Harris?
.
Haha too funny, great catch!
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      08-15-2012, 09:08 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR-Dad View Post
It's great to hear personal experiences from some who cares about the driving experience. Thx for posting!
Thanks, really enjoyed it and hope to put together a few more in the future. Back from a golf event today, I was blasting down the highway today weaving in and out of traffic blipping, shifting, and completely in the zone of driving. The euphoric feeling I get is hard to drive - its such a joy to get the car to react the way it does and when blips and the shifts are matched so perfectly its ba$$.

I know you mean about a few cars to get all the experiences - I will definitely be needing 2 for me

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M1 View Post
Great review, thx for sharing.

As far as the turbo lag and choice of transmission, I do recall a video of Chris Harris testing the F10 M5 (DCT) where he felt the manual may be the better choice when it comes to lessening the feel/effect of turbo lag (his rationale IIRC was the tranny was too quick for the engine which only exacerbated the feel of the lag). I'll have to dig through YouTube and find that video.
Could be argued all day on the better tranny for the car. I just found that because I like to control the throttle so much on the engine blips you could detect delayed engine breaking and I don't know if that was strictly from the turbo or something else like was mentioned earlier.
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      08-15-2012, 09:15 PM   #42
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I have a manual in my F10 550 and love it. I am coming from a modded 6MT G35 and a modded 6MT e92 M3. It was my main draw to the 550 (not many choices of cars in this class with MT) since I knew I was going to mod it a bit. If I were planning on keeping it stock, the automatic probably fits the stock suspension better.
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      08-15-2012, 09:26 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uhn2000 View Post
Could be argued all day on the better tranny for the car. I just found that because I like to control the throttle so much on the engine blips you could detect delayed engine breaking and I don't know if that was strictly from the turbo or something else like was mentioned earlier.
Indeed it could be, and 'better' is really user defined. I know I am going with the manual, despite my SA (and long time friend) trying to convince me otherwise.

Truth be told, I need to try these back to back, which looks like might happen later on this month, but as of now little can make me sway towards DCT. It will in all likelyhood be the last ever M5 offered in a manual, perhaps one day will be looked at like the last aircooled Porsche (993)

PS: there are a couple of people I know in Europe getting the M5 in manual through diplomatic channels, so not all Europeans think the 6-spd should be ditched
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      08-29-2012, 06:50 PM   #44
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Well just to followup for you guys. Today I did it - pulled the trigger on what I believe to the best 4 door sedan on the planet . Silver Stone, Full Black, Alum, Exec Pack, and 6MT!!! So pumped - going to be a hoot!
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