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      05-18-2013, 10:52 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlhj83 View Post
Sure, we would all like all our favourite brands to make products that are at their best and remain their best for sometime to make ourselves feel good about the products we buy, but unfortunately reality is far from it.

I have no doubt that there are a lot of people out there who are in the know when it comes to upcoming products, but I'm willing to bet that a larger proportion don't; the enthusiasts have always and will always be a smaller proportion.
Your 100% correct. Enthusiasts will always have their opinions but when it all comes down to brass tax we are the minority. They know that there are people out there that will buy it because its a status symbol and because there are always people that have to have the best regardless if they know how to utilize what they have. On the other hand we don't buy them for that reason. Back when I bought my E36 M3 I bought it for one reason and one reason only. Performance. Same with my other BMW's.
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      05-18-2013, 10:56 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by stealth.pilot
If they were going to do a Competition Package, they should have made it like an AMG-Black car. With this package, everything other than the ceramic brakes and the ugly wheels should be standard.
Non Black AMG's have performance packages, similar to this. More power bump though.
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      05-18-2013, 10:58 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asbjorn View Post
I agree that we shouldn't underestimate how long it takes to redesign and source new things into new production. It is probably difficult/very expensive to make big progress in a short amount of time with such car products. It better have been planned well ahead to be cost effective. And I agree such planning would typically have been done by a marketing department.

But lets look at the "improvements", actually most of them could have been done a few months before the launch. They are simply software changes:
  1. Power increase by 11kW (15HP) to 423kW (575 HP) - Programming
  2. Stiffer stabilizer (anti-roll) bars - Simple upgrade which trades comfort for sportiness
  3. Stiffer and lower suspension (shocks and springs) (10mm lower then standard M5/M6) - Simple upgrade which trades comfort for sportiness
  4. Stiffer front axle bushings - OK, nice I guess...
  5. Active M Differential with a unique tune for the competition package for improved traction - Programming
  6. New hydraulic rack-and-pinion steering with the M-specific Servotronic function with A MORE DIRECT PROGRAMMING to improve agility during cornering - Programming
  7. M Dynamic mode (MDM) of DSC tuned with higher thresholds of intervention - Programming
  8. New 20" M light alloy wheels - Not even an upgrade... and why aren't they forged anyway?
  9. Sport exhaust with black chrome tips - Not even an upgrade
Programming, programming, programming and pretty much parts that are going to be released under the M Performance line in a year.
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      05-18-2013, 11:09 PM   #48
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Nice package indeed but it all comes down to the cost. (I personally wouldn't want that wheel either)
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      05-18-2013, 11:12 PM   #49
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I bought my M5 2 months ago. I finally have the super car of my dreams in my Garage and I am very thankful for such an opportunity to have the best. I just won't be very happy when my neighbor pulls up his driveway with an M5-S or C or whatever in a couple of months, making me feel like I drive a 528. I thought only Infinity added alphabet letters to make cars seem faster. I was under the assumption that M5 is the "be all and end all" I think BMW should retrofit all 2013 M5s with new Grills, technology, exhaust, etc free of charge for our loyalty.
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      05-18-2013, 11:53 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob///M5 View Post
Retrofit on 2012-13 F10 M5s? I'd like everything but the exhaust and wheels. Maybe they can part this out? Suspension is already fantastic, but a drop and a bit more rigidity is a welcome update.
Totally agree bro.
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      05-19-2013, 12:23 AM   #51
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      05-19-2013, 12:23 AM   #52
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I would like BMW M to simply put multi-piston calipers all around instead of just the fronts. This Competition package was a great opportunity but no can't do.

If they can go the extra mile, effort and money to put synthesized engine sound via the damn speakers when that is technically irrelevant and absurd then, what is the freaking problem with a proper BBK all around in all M cars?

The $100,000 M car price mark has been passed long time ago. Carbon ceramic options are here and going to be available as well in the M4/M3. Sliding calipers do not belong in any M car.
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      05-19-2013, 01:03 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSanto View Post
Part of my anger is that my father ordered his car in early 12, finally received it in sept/oct of 12, only to have a comp package released 8 months later?

I bought an 09 E92 M3 in october of 08...it didn't hurt my feelings that october of '10 i would have been able to get a comp package. Two years is a lot of time. They really just rushed this in my opinion, and all the suspension adjustments I have to believe is brought on by the negative response of journalists.
I had an '08 M3. You've forgotten that they changed the nav system and for the E90 changed the rear lights significantly in '09. The change in the Nav system was dramatically different and the '08 model year for the US was only from April to September. The nav system changed again somewhere in the middle of the '11 model year (which was extra long). Was it annoying - yes. Bottom line, the pattern is clear. If you care about the changes, you need to be patient and wait a couple of years. If you want the car when it comes out, this happens. There will be a new M5 someday too.
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      05-19-2013, 01:28 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSanto View Post
Point is its the next model Year. Sure I don't mind comp packs or updates. But a year later? This is an automobile not an iPhone.

In the M3 it was actually the 4th MY.
Competition Package was introduced in the 4th MY, yes, but two points to make:

1) MY10 (the 3rd MY) lasted all of 5 months
2) The E90 LCI was introduced in the second MY of the E90M's production, so that was no different than the M5 LCI. And the changes for the LCI E90M were greater than they are for the F10M LCI.

Products receive constant iterations. Lamenting the fact that something better is always around the corner is akin to yelling at the sky.
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      05-19-2013, 01:33 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob///M5 View Post
Retrofit on 2012-13 F10 M5s? I'd like everything but the exhaust and wheels. Maybe they can part this out? Suspension is already fantastic, but a drop and a bit more rigidity is a welcome update.
You can retrofit all the parts. It won't be cheap -- especially not the steering updates -- but it can be done. And enterprising vendors will find ways of flashing the programming for the software updates for those that want it. I did the same thing with my E92M when the LCI and Competition Packages came out.
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      05-19-2013, 02:07 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asbjorn View Post
I agree that we shouldn't underestimate how long it takes to redesign and source new things into new production. It is probably difficult/very expensive to make big progress in a short amount of time with such car products. It better have been planned well ahead to be cost effective. And I agree such planning would typically have been done by a marketing department.

But lets look at the "improvements", actually most of them could have been done a few months before the launch. They are simply software changes:
  1. Power increase by 11kW (15HP) to 423kW (575 HP) - Programming
  2. Stiffer stabilizer (anti-roll) bars - Simple upgrade which trades comfort for sportiness
  3. Stiffer and lower suspension (shocks and springs) (10mm lower then standard M5/M6) - Simple upgrade which trades comfort for sportiness
  4. Stiffer front axle bushings - OK, nice I guess...
  5. Active M Differential with a unique tune for the competition package for improved traction - Programming
  6. New hydraulic rack-and-pinion steering with the M-specific Servotronic function with A MORE DIRECT PROGRAMMING to improve agility during cornering - Programming
  7. M Dynamic mode (MDM) of DSC tuned with higher thresholds of intervention - Programming
  8. New 20" M light alloy wheels - Not even an upgrade... and why aren't they forged anyway?
  9. Sport exhaust with black chrome tips - Not even an upgrade
Stiffer front axle bushings, I think these too can easily retrofit/upgrade, when performance paket bushings part nro. comes.
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      05-19-2013, 02:43 AM   #57
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so the they added power, albeit a patheticly low amount, and kept the same wheel/tire widths?

we're traction limited to begin with FFS!!!
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      05-19-2013, 04:18 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mainly View Post
so the they added power, albeit a patheticly low amount, and kept the same wheel/tire widths?

we're traction limited to begin with FFS!!!
Try and drive your car a bit more on over-steer with DSC off, and forget about the 0-60 and lap times. When you learn how much fun it is to go sideways, you will start to wish the M5 had even less traction!

The M5 should be driven more sideways. Otherwise you might as well have gotten a 4WD Audi/Porsche/etc with much more traction on offer.
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      05-19-2013, 05:13 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asbjorn View Post
Try and drive your car a bit more on over-steer with DSC off, and forget about the 0-60 and lap times. When you learn how much fun it is to go sideways, you will start to wish the M5 had even less traction!

The M5 should be driven more sideways. Otherwise you might as well have gotten a 4WD Audi/Porsche/etc with much more traction on offer.
i find even when it gets sideways (slightly, and it does very easily) its hard to tell where the limit of grip is as very little road feel from the wheels comes back into the cabin, cant hear the wheel spin, nothing. just silence. almost like your on a sheet of ice. lol

besides id rather not crash into a pole or another moving vehicle.
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      05-19-2013, 05:33 AM   #60
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      05-19-2013, 06:16 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asbjorn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil335 View Post
How do you figure that is progress? BMW has the means and technology to put this car out on it's debut. These cars are thought up, drawn up, designed and tested years in advance. They nave a bigger timeframe then you think. I just read article by a designer from another manufacturer that said "majority of the designs you see on the road now were thought up 7 years ago". It's called marketing! How many special versions and competition packages were released for the E34 M5 (Not counting the Winkelhock and Cecotto Drivers Editions) E39 M5 or E60 M5? With BMW's sales and profits going up up and away they figured "Here's another chance to add a premium option that could add more profit and possibly grab the attention of current F10 M5 owners that need the latest and greatest". Plus using Bugatti as an example is a horrible comparison. They have one model, the Veyron. It has no heritage and no meaning like the M5 regardless of its performance and exclusivity. Regardless of how many variants they have of it. Marketing at it's best.
I agree that we shouldn't underestimate how long it takes to redesign and source new things into new production. It is probably difficult/very expensive to make big progress in a short amount of time with such car products. It better have been planned well ahead to be cost effective. And I agree such planning would typically have been done by a marketing department.

But lets look at the "improvements", actually most of them could have been done a few months before the launch. They are simply software changes:
  1. Power increase by 11kW (15HP) to 423kW (575 HP) - Programming
  2. Stiffer stabilizer (anti-roll) bars - Simple upgrade which trades comfort for sportiness
  3. Stiffer and lower suspension (shocks and springs) (10mm lower then standard M5/M6) - Simple upgrade which trades comfort for sportiness
  4. Stiffer front axle bushings - OK, nice I guess...
  5. Active M Differential with a unique tune for the competition package for improved traction - Programming
  6. New hydraulic rack-and-pinion steering with the M-specific Servotronic function with A MORE DIRECT PROGRAMMING to improve agility during cornering - Programming
  7. M Dynamic mode (MDM) of DSC tuned with higher thresholds of intervention - Programming
  8. New 20" M light alloy wheels - Not even an upgrade... and why aren't they forged anyway?
  9. Sport exhaust with black chrome tips - Not even an upgrade
aside from the bushings and suspension tweaks, it's programming. This just makes me favor a bmw ecu flash as opposed to an aftermarket. and agree hope that these parts retrofit.

us early adapters can not complain- we have had exclusivity rights and I have loved every minute of it
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      05-19-2013, 08:01 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSanto View Post
Point is its the next model Year. Sure I don't mind comp packs or updates. But a year later? This is an automobile not an iPhone.

In the M3 it was actually the 4th MY.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil335 View Post
Wait wait wait! I'm sorry but if BMW makes an M5/M6 then it should be a balls to the walls badass beast from the get go. No competition package nonsense. This should all be included and part of the M5/M6 straight off the floor. My opinion and I'm sticking to it. Church!
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSanto View Post
Part of my anger is that my father ordered his car in early 12, finally received it in sept/oct of 12, only to have a comp package released 8 months later?

I bought an 09 E92 M3 in october of 08...it didn't hurt my feelings that october of '10 i would have been able to get a comp package. Two years is a lot of time. They really just rushed this in my opinion, and all the suspension adjustments I have to believe is brought on by the negative response of journalists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chong0 View Post
aside from the bushings and suspension tweaks, it's programming. This just makes me favor a bmw ecu flash as opposed to an aftermarket. and agree hope that these parts retrofit.

us early adapters can not complain- we have had exclusivity rights and I have loved every minute of it
Meh, BMW is not competing well in the "Competition Package" dept. vs. the likes of AMG (P31 pk.). Also, they just made every 8 month old F10 M5 owner feel a tad bit bad. I know exclusivity has its place, but for 8 months...wow.

I would be pretty ticked my car is already a dated version missing some refined performance software that BMW should of included to begin with. I mean, they should at least offer the software upgradable components as a option to current owners for a minimal labor charge or free. This is after all a $100k car.
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      05-19-2013, 08:11 AM   #63
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Lots of interesting stuff. No doubt if I were ordering a 14 I'd opt for the package and then promptly order new wheels. I'm not upset over the fact that I own a 13 without the extra 15hp and other goodies. I realize that 2014 is the 3rd model year for the M5 and upgrades are expected. What will upset me is not being able to "upgrade" my 13 with some of these components. BMW needs to make the package components available in the M catalog for us early buyers.
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      05-19-2013, 08:15 AM   #64
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So the Non Competition package equipped car would only get the new grill and the new steering column?I hope they made the stick a little better.The present stick looks horrendous,even my 135 has a better looking stick.I have a feeling they made a sloppy job with the stick[just putting the one from the regular 5 series].

aaaand.. those rimss...Not fan of them.The spokes should be wider.They look like blinged out after market rims.
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      05-19-2013, 08:29 AM   #65
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The current 20's look amazing compared to the new wheels in the competition. They look wimpy and not visually interesting.
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      05-19-2013, 08:41 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i001947 View Post
M6 is the M to die for. A true driver car.
Damn right! Well...for drivers who like to wrestle with big, bloated, 4200 lb. behemoths...
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