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      10-04-2017, 03:54 PM   #111
JohnnyCanuck
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Torgus you're kind of speaking about cause or effect, not cause and effect in my mind.

Why are there such strong correlations between income, single parent households, and violent crime? I see it as directly linked to the lack of economic opportunity and the hopelessness that exists for many.

Again, not being a sociologist or anthropologist, I am not well versed in the research, but from I can find ... there isn't a lot of that focuses on the question of economic opportunity and crime where race is viewed longitudinally. I did find a study from Villanova that concluded:
Most of the existing literature in this area has been cross-sectional and at the city level of aggregation. Hoping to add to this literature, the present study used robust regression techniques to analyze the race-specific longitudinal relationships between poverty and violent crime in neighbor-hoods in Cleveland, OH. The results indicated that reductions in poverty were associated with reductions in violent crime rates in both predomi-nately white and predominately black neighborhoods. Consistent with the racial invariance hypothesis suggested by the social disorganization and anomie perspectives, the effect of changes in poverty on changes inviolent crime was statistically indistinguishable for the two racial groups.
You're trying to state that the breakdown in the nuclear family is more profound along ethnic lines and that it is responsible for crime. I think you're too far down the road in your analysis. Economic circumstances are far more responsible for both than anything else. And, the reasons for African-American and Native American/Alaskan American economic disadvantage are well known and create the disparities in end result that you're using to support your hypothesis.
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      10-06-2017, 09:22 AM   #112
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I wanted to get a full flavor of the commentary on this subject before I weighed in regarding the REASONS for the economic disparity among blacks related to poverty and familial status.

Torgus , the stats are the stats but they don't tell the whole story. God knows I love a good statistic more than anyone else. I live what my friends call, "a data driven life". The difference is to know when to step back from the data and see the entire tapestry.

The piece missing in the entire discussion is the actions around the black family with regard to the entire "New Society" reform of the early and mid 1960's. The black family unit as well as community was very strong up to that time. It had to be. The horrors visited upon blacks in this country were unspeakable and still continued writ large.

The INTENT of the reform was to provide a safety net for those families that needed help and level the playing field for blacks. Some policy expert, however, determined that in order to receive support, the family, which was living in poverty due to legitimate socio-economic oppression, could not have a male living in the household. It had to be a broken family. Government agencies actually sent individuals were sent to actually ensure that males were not in the home. There were periodic compliance checks, similar to the way child protective services checks on the welfare of children, also done. Further, a perverse incentive to tie support to the number of children living in the household, was engaged.

These two reasons are the primary reasons why the urban black family unit was destroyed and also provide a bit of context regarding the rapidity of the descent. Black families and communities in rural areas behave differently than in urban areas. The numbers don't tell this story. Actual hardball, big-boy research has to be done to understand the CONTEXT of the numbers. This is the danger of the internet. There is so much data at our fingertips that it just becomes noise without context.

I could go on about the ancillary effects of how, "desegregation", destroyed the institutions in the black community which developed in parallel to general white society but I don't have time to delve into that.

I hope this helps.
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      10-06-2017, 09:53 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
I wanted to get a full flavor of the commentary on this subject before I weighed in regarding the REASONS for the economic disparity among blacks related to poverty and familial status.

Torgus , the stats are the stats but they don't tell the whole story. God knows I love a good statistic more than anyone else. I live what my friends call, "a data driven life". The difference is to know when to step back from the data and see the entire tapestry.

The piece missing in the entire discussion is the actions around the black family with regard to the entire "New Society" reform of the early and mid 1960's. The black family unit as well as community was very strong up to that time. It had to be. The horrors visited upon blacks in this country were unspeakable and still continued writ large.

The INTENT of the reform was to provide a safety net for those families that needed help and level the playing field for blacks. Some policy expert, however, determined that in order to receive support, the family, which was living in poverty due to legitimate socio-economic oppression, could not have a male living in the household. It had to be a broken family. Government agencies actually sent individuals were sent to actually ensure that males were not in the home. There were periodic compliance checks, similar to the way child protective services checks on the welfare of children, also done. Further, a perverse incentive to tie support to the number of children living in the household, was engaged.

These two reasons are the primary reasons why the urban black family unit was destroyed and also provide a bit of context regarding the rapidity of the descent. Black families and communities in rural areas behave differently than in urban areas. The numbers don't tell this story. Actual hardball, big-boy research has to be done to understand the CONTEXT of the numbers. This is the danger of the internet. There is so much data at our fingertips that it just becomes noise without context.

I could go on about the ancillary effects of how, "desegregation", destroyed the institutions in the black community which developed in parallel to general white society but I don't have time to delve into that.

I hope this helps.
Cheers-mk
Right welfare and social programs helped destroy the aa family unit and structure which has lead to...poverty and crime in the aa community. Same happened with other minorities. It's not rocket science that healthy families units are more likely to raise healthy children.
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      10-06-2017, 02:23 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torgus View Post
Right welfare and social programs helped destroy the aa family unit and structure which has lead to...poverty and crime in the aa community. Same happened with other minorities. It's not rocket science that healthy families units are more likely to raise healthy children.
Not quite.

Improper application of the aforementioned programs and the burden of compliance led to the problems. And not all of the community. There are areas that thrive. Please stop painting with such a broad brush. If you'd like to educate yourself on the diversity within the black community, may I suggest:

https://www.amazon.com/Our-Kind-Peop...dp_kinw_strp_1 for you?

It will provide a better and more expansive context from which you may develop a more informed opinion.

Cheers-mk
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Last edited by MKSixer; 10-06-2017 at 02:29 PM.
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