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      09-16-2017, 02:52 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by HighlyMedicated View Post
I was gonna say these days in the 21st century advancement of gps and computer processing everything is accurate within feet!!!

If they get invaded blitzkrieg style then thats on their karma for not being allowed a miltary.
According to global firepower Japan is ranked 7th out of 133 countries based on conventional weapon strength, two examples being they have 4 aircraft carriers that's 3rd behind America & France, they have 700 MBTs, Germany has 542
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      09-16-2017, 04:36 AM   #68
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Wow much more than I expected but they are or were an economic power house. I was using the reference of the Vice report on japan but they must have been rebuiding the military a while back.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...1KUP13xKuwu-bA

If 7th in the world how to they not shoot down the missle, its not like they didn't shoot on purpose because they would never know the target if it did land anywhere populated. A risk but easier to assume they didn't have anything to shoot it down.
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      09-16-2017, 07:15 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by HighlyMedicated View Post
Wow much more than I expected but they are or were an economic power house. I was using the reference of the Vice report on japan but they must have been rebuiding the military a while back.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...1KUP13xKuwu-bA

If 7th in the world how to they not shoot down the missle, its not like they didn't shoot on purpose because they would never know the target if it did land anywhere populated. A risk but easier to assume they didn't have anything to shoot it down.
Japan has a very capable anti missile defence, apparently the most sofisticated outside of the USA. They have 4 'Kongo' class anti missile ships (equivilant to the US navy's Arleigh Burke class destroyers, these are equipped with the Aegis Combat System (version 3.6) 2 of these ships are capable of covering the whole of Japan apart from the Okinawa & Ryukyo islands. They also have a large arsenal of Patriot PAC-3 surface to air missiles with a range of 12 miles deployed in 13 locations across the country.

As for their reasons for not shooting down the NK missiles I suspect they were able to track them & we're aware that they posed no significant threat.
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      09-16-2017, 08:18 PM   #70
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With so many anti defense missles I'm sure they are always on 24/7 and shoot down anything that comes within range, if had to get confirmation from a superior and then shoot it down would already be too late...also if they tracked the trajectory its not a mortor where you can calculate the parabola of the rocket but they are gps gudided so its trajectory is always variable, but again to get confirmation from a suprioer not to shoot down while calculating if it poses a threat just sounds unlikely. A rocket from north korea to japan which is very close would be less than a minute or a couple minutes at most to hit japan...

For sure they did not retaliate after the missle was shot which would seem a direct threat to your nation because they don't want to be the start of the World War III lol. With japans economy at a plateau and not raising you would think they would want a war since that always boost the economy surprisingly with manufacturing of weapons and foreign aid, and also have backing from USA the big bro no one wanted to feel safe haha. Ironically its like when the US government knew japan was going to attack pearl harbor but they didn't protect the area so they have a reason to join the war thru congress approval. If japan knew it was not threat and didn't shoot down it may trigger a reason for them or USA to not only conduct missle tests but ultimately take down Kim from fear he would use the bomb like a mad man with no logical sense or care for the world.

Very tense times right now, can't we all just get along lol, hope there is not another WWIII but trump wants to show his power with the destruction of a mad man might cause a crisis out in Asia. Its been stated that his advisors are all inexperienced in this type of international policy and war negotiations...

Did the UN approve of missle tests for the US and SKorea after that japan fiasco?
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      09-17-2017, 04:06 PM   #71
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ICBMs are not externnally guided or guidable after launch. They have guidance systems that are programmed before launch. This is why their destination can determined with virtual certainty after launch. So it's not like NK can launch an ICBM with an initial destination and then change it mid-flight. Unless it's been programmed to do so, and even then it would take a lot of effort (and fuel and missile integrity) to change it where it would veer thousands of miles from its initial target.
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      09-17-2017, 04:24 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by schoy View Post
ICBMs are not externnally guided or guidable after launch. They have guidance systems that are programmed before launch. This is why their destination can determined with virtual certainty after launch. So it's not like NK can launch an ICBM with an initial destination and then change it mid-flight. Unless it's been programmed to do so, and even then it would take a lot of effort (and fuel and missile integrity) to change it where it would veer thousands of miles from its initial target.
Let's think for a bit.

An Icbm is not exactly a cheap fire cracker. Put a nuke on one, and for a country like nk losing one would be a major hit. I won't even pretend to have even the basics of thetechnology down, but i like counting.

So if i had the money for a hundred icbms, and for five nukes to put to them, and if i really wanted to hit a target, would i instead of putting the five in a hundred and launch simultaneously, or would i only produce 50 icbms and work on dropping them mid flight, let's say over a big city where the country that would be trying to shoot them down since they were merely flying over wouldn't do it and then launch them all at once.

For sure, even a rumor of a such thing would make me scarier and being scary is cheaper than doing anything.
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      09-17-2017, 04:46 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Lups View Post
Let's think for a bit.

An Icbm is not exactly a cheap fire cracker. Put a nuke on one, and for a country like nk losing one would be a major hit. I won't even pretend to have even the basics of thetechnology down, but i like counting.

So if i had the money for a hundred icbms, and for five nukes to put to them, and if i really wanted to hit a target, would i instead of putting the five in a hundred and launch simultaneously, or would i only produce 50 icbms and work on dropping them mid flight, let's say over a big city where the country that would be trying to shoot them down since they were merely flying over wouldn't do it and then launch them all at once.

For sure, even a rumor of a such thing would make me scarier and being scary is cheaper than doing anything.
Anna , are you sober today ?
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      09-17-2017, 05:05 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Anna , are you sober today ?
Sadly yes, well, I'm half way down a beer but tired as fuck.

It made sense in my head! And crazier dudes than i have nukes these days.
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      09-17-2017, 05:10 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Lups View Post
Sadly yes, well, I'm half way down a beer but tired as fuck.

It made sense in my head! And crazier dudes than i have nukes these days.
Guess ...You are talking about him ?
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      09-18-2017, 07:38 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
14 out of 14 against intermediate threats.

http://www.ktuu.com/content/news/MDA...433849693.html

Complete record for all intercepts as of May 2017.

https://www.mda.mil/global/documents/pdf/testrecord.pdf

The fact that those tests include dates back from 2005 makes me suspicious about those reports.
Again those are all within perfectly scripted test environments. Seeing that they are yearly, I wouldn't be surprised if they were just for contracting purposes. But there is nothing recent.

http://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2017/09/no-we-cannot-shoot-down-north-koreas-missiles/141070/?ref=yfp

There are so many variables that have to be right in order to get a successful shot. For example battery in the right location, radar facing the correct way etc. And this is for all systems

The Sm-III on the Aegis carrier can't stop NK's missile. And it doesn't help that we keep crashing ships lol

https://warisboring.com/there-may-be-no-way-to-shoot-down-north-koreas-ballistic-missiles/

Not to mention the easisest way to get around any of our systems is just to shoot many missiles at once. The more I read up on any of these weapon systems, my confidence continues to fall
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      09-18-2017, 08:06 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OlBloo View Post
The fact that those tests include dates back from 2005 makes me suspicious about those reports.
Again those are all within perfectly scripted test environments. Seeing that they are yearly, I wouldn't be surprised if they were just for contracting purposes. But there is nothing recent.

http://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2017...41070/?ref=yfp

There are so many variables that have to be right in order to get a successful shot. For example battery in the right location, radar facing the correct way etc. And this is for all systems

The Sm-III on the Aegis carrier can't stop NK's missile. And it doesn't help that we keep crashing ships lol

https://warisboring.com/there-may-be...stic-missiles/

Not to mention the easisest way to get around any of our systems is just to shoot many missiles at once. The more I read up on any of these weapon systems, my confidence continues to fall
Nothing personal but you are conflating. Please confine the conversation to the THAAD system. You can clearly see that the tests range from 2006 to 2015. I have tested military hardware in undergrad, grad school and my previous life and know how the variables align. The argument that the system can be overwhelmed is a straw man argument in that any defensive system can be overwhelmed by sustained fire.

The article from warisboring is a bit of a bait and switch, as well. It starts off with info on the SM6 then delves into the complete unsuitability of the SM3. Well, the SM3 is completely unsuitable for these intercepts both in utility and deployment.

Again, I will say this: Is the system perfect, no. Is it far better than nothing, absolutely.
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      09-18-2017, 09:29 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Nothing personal but you are conflating. Please confine the conversation to the THAAD system. You can clearly see that the tests range from 2006 to 2015. I have tested military hardware in undergrad, grad school and my previous life and know how the variables align. The argument that the system can be overwhelmed is a straw man argument in that any defensive system can be overwhelmed by sustained fire.

The article from warisboring is a bit of a bait and switch, as well. It starts off with info on the SM6 then delves into the complete unsuitability of the SM3. Well, the SM3 is completely unsuitable for these intercepts both in utility and deployment.

Again, I will say this: Is the system perfect, no. Is it far better than nothing, absolutely.
The problem is its existence gives false confidence to the populace
Alls needed is for one to get through to be a disaster OR one anti-ballistic system to fail
I dare say the world was much safer before ABMs came into existence when people were scared shitless of nuclear war
Today the lack of wisdom is going in the direction of catastrophe
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      09-18-2017, 09:36 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlyMedicated View Post
I was gonna say these days in the 21st century advancement of gps and computer processing everything is accurate within feet!!!

If a missle was ever shot to us over oceans our jets would scramble and try to shoot down or a brave hero will kamikaze into the ICBM.
If you think this is actually a viable option, then your username surely fits you well.
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      09-18-2017, 09:40 AM   #80
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The problem is its existence gives false confidence to the populace
Alls needed is for one to get through to be a disaster OR one anti-ballistic system to fail
I dare say the world was much safer before ABMs came into existence when people were scared shitless of nuclear war
Today the lack of wisdom is going in the direction of catastrophe
I disagree.

That is the situation for any aggressor. Does your door lock and security system give you a false sense of security or does it provide protection against a casual attempt at intrusion? The answer is the latter. If a determined criminal/criminal organization wants to get into your home, short of putting armed guards around the perimeter of your home and many more inside, there is nothing you can do.

This is the same for ABMs. Russia could shower us with missiles and there is zero we could do about it. We would be hit. Only MAD protects us. For the tinpot despot who can only manage one or two operational missiles, ABM is a viable defensive tool. The DPRK can't shower us with missiles as Russia can thereby making the ability to take out their handful of missiles with ABM a more viable defensive option. If the time comes that the DPRK has many dozens of nuclear tipped missiles, then terrestrial based ABM will no longer be a viable defensive option. Right now, it is.

Please consider what and whom is being defended against.

Cheers-mk
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      09-18-2017, 09:53 AM   #81
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I disagree.

That is the situation for any aggressor. Does your door lock and security system give you a false sense of security or does it provide protection against a casual attempt at intrusion? The answer is the latter. If a determined criminal/criminal organization wants to get into your home, short of putting armed guards around the perimeter of your home and many more inside, there is nothing you can do.

This is the same for ABMs. Russia could shower us with missiles and there is zero we could do about it. We would be hit. Only MAD protects us. For the tinpot despot who can only manage one or two operational missiles, ABM is a viable defensive tool. The DPRK can't shower us with missiles as Russia can thereby making the ability to take out their handful of missiles with ABM a more viable defensive option. If the time comes that the DPRK has many dozens of nuclear tipped missiles, then terrestrial based ABM will no longer be a viable defensive option. Right now, it is.

Please consider what and whom is being defended against.

Cheers-mk
That tinpot depot also understands the array of ABMs on the other side
they will overtime slowly but surely negate any effectiveness
imo its much better to diffuse the situation
if saber rattling needs to happen then it needs to be followed thru NOW before they come up with strategies to neutralize ABM effectiveness
unfortunately this does not seem an option as China has explicitly said they will actively defend NK and its implied the Russian at Vladivostok will as well as their exercises have been ramping up and I assure you those exercises are not aimed at NK..
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      09-18-2017, 10:05 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by OlBloo View Post

Not to mention the easisest way to get around any of our systems is just to shoot many missiles at once. The more I read up on any of these weapon systems, my confidence continues to fall
You really should have more confidence in your country.
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      09-18-2017, 11:34 AM   #83
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China n Russia are doing their military drills, so does this mean i have to test my COD game skills in real life?
no respawning though
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      09-18-2017, 03:20 PM   #84
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That tinpot depot also understands the array of ABMs on the other side
they will overtime slowly but surely negate any effectiveness
imo its much better to diffuse the situation
if saber rattling needs to happen then it needs to be followed thru NOW before they come up with strategies to neutralize ABM effectiveness
unfortunately this does not seem an option as China has explicitly said they will actively defend NK and its implied the Russian at Vladivostok will as well as their exercises have been ramping up and I assure you those exercises are not aimed at NK..
He is playing catch-up. He is now sporting technology we had 35 years ago. By the time he catches up with us in this respect, barring an illegal tech transfer, we will be able to manage the battlespace, including missile defense, non-terresterially.
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      09-18-2017, 03:23 PM   #85
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China n Russia are doing their military drills, so does this mean i have to test my COD game skills in real life?
no respawning though
On the other side, the scavenger perk would be in full effect...
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      09-18-2017, 04:51 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
He is playing catch-up. He is now sporting technology we had 35 years ago. By the time he catches up with us in this respect, barring an illegal tech transfer, we will be able to manage the battlespace, including missile defense, non-terresterially.
Illegal is in the eye of the beholder..
I assert that the North Koreans could not even be in this spot without help from the Chinese and the Russians.. they know at any rate those missiles will be flying eastward towards SKorea/Japan/US not westward. they desire and want this buffer state as a guard-dog against the west
He will get the toy technologies he needs..
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      09-19-2017, 07:26 PM   #87
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      09-21-2017, 10:36 AM   #88
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Illegal is in the eye of the beholder..
I assert that the North Koreans could not even be in this spot without help from the Chinese and the Russians.. they know at any rate those missiles will be flying eastward towards SKorea/Japan/US not westward. they desire and want this buffer state as a guard-dog against the west
He will get the toy technologies he needs..
Illegal is not in the eye of the beholder unless one ascribes to the actions of most tinpot dictators.

Illegal tech transfers take place in many forms. Hughes and Loral in the 90's engaged in illegal tech transfer which has resulted in the Chinese, as well as their surrogates, the DPRK to field the missile technology which they currently sport.

I'm certain you're familiar with the Cox Report. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeli...rt_controversy
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