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      09-19-2017, 11:52 AM   #1
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Prime Minister Trudeau's war on incorporated small business owners

For all those Trump haters out there, at least he doesn't appear to be eager to increase taxes on those people who are the backbone of society.

In a nutshell, my unbeloved PM is attacking incorporated small business owners in the following ways:

1. By suggesting he will do away with income splitting within a corporation or at least make it much more difficult. Effectively devaluing the other spouse's contributions to the business by allowing the owner to focus on the business while they take care of the kids / home.

2. By suggesting he will increase the taxes on any income left in the corporation that is invested in passive means (ie. real estate, stocks, bonds, etc) so that the highest tax rate could even approach 70% according to various tax lawyers). Effectively saying that all business owners have no need of a rainy day fund to make payroll and know all the cash flow needs in advance. Also that business owners cannot save for their retirement in their corporations because that would be "unfair". Meanwhile, same business owners do not get sick days, vacation days, pension plans, severance etc that a non business owner employee would. So where is the fairness.

3. He is also focused on preventing the change in nature of income received, though I don't really have a problem with his focus there. Very few corps do this sort of stuff, and it is sort of shady.

He is a constant source of aggravation, I cannot wait till he is voted out. He is only doing this so he can get more tax up front so he can fund all the promises his mouth keeps making and he's spent the cupboard bare.
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      09-19-2017, 12:08 PM   #2
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You vote in a communist, what do you expect
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      09-19-2017, 12:42 PM   #3
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Not that he had my vote in the first place, but the problem is, the base of people he panders to are largely not affected (they think), so he'll probably get in again for another 4 years.

But that base will be affected when small business owners start laying them off because they can't afford their salary with the new tax burdens.
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      09-19-2017, 01:40 PM   #4
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Class warfare at its finest. Liberals Party of Canada seemingly believes that any income that hasn't been collected through taxes must mean you're a tax cheat.

As for the LPC base being affected by this tax. Sure there are some, but they'd rather lose a few 'Blue' votes to steal some of those 'Orange' ones. This is all in the name of Progressivism and Social Justice, oh Sunny Ways folks.

Last edited by Canuckles; 09-20-2017 at 01:26 PM.
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      09-19-2017, 02:15 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
For all those Trump haters out there, at least he doesn't appear to be eager to increase taxes on those people who are the backbone of society.

In a nutshell, my unbeloved PM is attacking incorporated small business owners in the following ways:

1. By suggesting he will do away with income splitting within a corporation or at least make it much more difficult. Effectively devaluing the other spouse's contributions to the business by allowing the owner to focus on the business while they take care of the kids / home.

2. By suggesting he will increase the taxes on any income left in the corporation that is invested in passive means (ie. real estate, stocks, bonds, etc) so that the highest tax rate could even approach 70% according to various tax lawyers). Effectively saying that all business owners have no need of a rainy day fund to make payroll and know all the cash flow needs in advance. Also that business owners cannot save for their retirement in their corporations because that would be "unfair". Meanwhile, same business owners do not get sick days, vacation days, pension plans, severance etc that a non business owner employee would. So where is the fairness.

3. He is also focused on preventing the change in nature of income received, though I don't really have a problem with his focus there. Very few corps do this sort of stuff, and it is sort of shady.

He is a constant source of aggravation, I cannot wait till he is voted out. He is only doing this so he can get more tax up front so he can fund all the promises his mouth keeps making and he's spent the cupboard bare.
2. Uhhh, those aren't rainy day funds - basically he's trying to encourage you to spend and put money back into direct investments for your company instead of trying to put off paying taxes through various look hole.

3. Why mention it then - just to complain?

I mean if you hate taxes so much, make less money.
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      09-19-2017, 03:07 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
2. Uhhh, those aren't rainy day funds - basically he's trying to encourage you to spend and put money back into direct investments for your company instead of trying to put off paying taxes through various look hole.
See, it's ignorance like this that's the problem. That he panders to. You've obviously never run a business. If you spend all your money by putting it back into the business, what happens if demand dries up for a few months or longer? How do you pay your employees then with no income coming in and no funds held in reserve?

Further, why is it wrong for business owners (who grind longer hours, put their houses on the line to fund their business, who don't get vacation, sick or severance pay) who take all these risks to not have some reward? If the government really is worried about fairness, then they should give small business owners pensions, severance, sick and vacation days - if they really want to equalize between the small business owner and the employee. But of course, its not fairness they are after. They are just using that word to disguise an obscene tax grab and whip up support from people who are too ignorant to look things up for themselves.

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Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
3. Why mention it then - just to complain?
No, I mentioned it to be complete, in case anyone looked it up and said there were three items on their agenda. I specifically said I didn't have a problem. C minus on your reading comprehension.

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Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
I mean if you hate taxes so much, make less money.
And that in itself is another problem. That mindset is encouraging mediocrity, to not work hard. That may be fine for you, but I don't think it should be encouraged.
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he's Canadian. By international law we all must worship him and all other products of the country.
      09-19-2017, 04:03 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Lobb View Post
You vote in a communist, what do you expect
For fucks sake he looks like a young Castro and his parents used to hang with Castro.
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      09-19-2017, 04:10 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
2. Uhhh, those aren't rainy day funds - basically he's trying to encourage you to spend and put money back into direct investments for your company instead of trying to put off paying taxes through various look hole.

3. Why mention it then - just to complain?

I mean if you hate taxes so much, make less money.
You are way off on that one. You need to have cash saved up in order to pay your expenses and employees when business is down. Every good business owner has a few months of cash set aside just for this.
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You can detect right away those that are going to be shaky, and that will fall behind and those that are very hungry, and that hunger you will have to develop. You gotta create a goal for yourself whatever that may be, a short term goal and a long term goal and you gotta go after that. And if you donít see it, and if you donít believe it, who else will?
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      09-19-2017, 04:15 PM   #9
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I'd move!
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      09-19-2017, 04:16 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Delta0311 View Post
You are way off on that one. You need to have cash saved up in order to pay your expenses and employees when business is down. Every good business owner has a few months of cash set aside just for this.
I'm not wrong - having your money tied up in "investments" isn't a rainy day fund. He's full of shit - and no, passive income shouldn't be taxed less then wages people actively have to work for.
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      09-19-2017, 04:20 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
See, it's ignorance like this that's the problem. That he panders to. You've obviously never run a business. If you spend all your money by putting it back into the business, what happens if demand dries up for a few months or longer? How do you pay your employees then with no income coming in and no funds held in reserve?
See my post above - "investing" your money into buying property or stocks isn't a rainy day fund.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
Further, why is it wrong for business owners (who grind longer hours, put their houses on the line to fund their business, who don't get vacation, sick or severance pay) who take all these risks to not have some reward?
Why do you need an incentive to make more money?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
If the government really is worried about fairness, then they should give small business owners pensions, severance, sick and vacation days - if they really want to equalize between the small business owner and the employee. But of course, its not fairness they are after. They are just using that word to disguise an obscene tax grab and whip up support from people who are too ignorant to look things up for themselves.
You don't have a Social security like program, or universal healthcare? Crazy.



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Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
No, I mentioned it to be complete, in case anyone looked it up and said there were three items on their agenda. I specifically said I didn't have a problem. C minus on your reading comprehension.
Complete on what? Nonsense? You are bringing up a point that you don't disagree with because you don't have a leg to stand on.

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Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
And that in itself is another problem. That mindset is encouraging mediocrity, to not work hard. That may be fine for you, but I don't think it should be encouraged.
Wait what? If you want money - you'll make money. I don't need to provide an incentive for you to do so - stop being lazy.
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      09-19-2017, 04:21 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post

I mean if you hate taxes so much, make less money.
I like it you post something witty and others reply "you win the internet today".
This statement is not like that.
This statement may be the worst I've seen on the internet today. I suppose he can gas his e92msport up just enough to get it to his next destination, and not worry about getting into heavy traffic, construction, etc. He won't run out of gas. lol
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      09-19-2017, 04:24 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
See my post above - "investing" your money into buying property or stocks isn't a rainy day fund.


Why do you need an incentive to make more money?


You don't have a Social security like program, or universal healthcare? Crazy.




Complete on what? Nonsense? You are bringing up a point that you don't disagree with because you don't have a leg to stand on.



Wait what? If you want money - you'll make money. I don't need to provide an incentive for you to do so - stop being lazy.
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      09-19-2017, 04:27 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
I like it you post something witty and others reply "you win the internet today".
This statement is not like that.
This statement may be the worst I've seen on the internet today. I suppose he can gas his e92msport up just enough to get it to his next destination, and not worry about getting into heavy traffic, construction, etc. He won't run out of gas. lol
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Originally Posted by sirdaft1 View Post
You don't need to provide an incentive to make more money because MORE MONEY IS THE INCENTIVE.

I don't understand how that's so hard to grasp. Stop looking for a handout - you shouldn't be paying LESS in taxes for wages that you're not actively working for.
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      09-19-2017, 04:27 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
I'm not wrong - having your money tied up in "investments" isn't a rainy day fund. He's full of shit - and no, passive income shouldn't be taxed less then wages people actively have to work for.
Again - you are failing to understand.

Why would you not invest your money in stocks / bonds / GIC's etc - they are all fairly liquid and you might as well have your money make some money while you are waiting for the next time you need it.

Secondly, for the longer term investments held (ie. less liquid), this passive income is taxed at the highest corporate rates - it doesn't qualify for the small business deductions and federal abatements. Top corporate rate is 38%. Further, these wages you refer to that people have to work for - well this passive income in the corp isn't the owner's personal money to do with what he / she wants. Its the corporation's money. So if the shareholder wants to use it to buy something (ie. like a person who is earning wages) then they have to withdraw it from the corporation, at which point, they are TAXED again on this withdrawal personally. Depending on how they take it, there is normally some credit back to the corporation to achieve integration (which is just a fancy way to say that it shouldn't matter whether that money was earned individually or through a corp - the same amount of taxes will be paid at the ultimate end).

And our system is pretty well integrated. The only advantage to a corp is tax deferral - pushing out those taxes you would otherwise have to pay up front to a later year. But ultimately, it has to come out, and when it does, you are taxed.
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      09-19-2017, 04:32 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
Again - you are failing to understand.

Why would you not invest your money in stocks / bonds / GIC's etc - they are all fairly liquid and you might as well have your money make some money while you are waiting for the next time you need it.
No, it's literally not liquid - which is why I KNOW you have literally NO IDEA what you're talking about.

http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answ...uid-assets.asp

Quote:
An example of a non-liquid asset is a real estate investment because it can take months for a person or company to receive cash from the sale. For example, suppose a company owns real estate property and wants to liquidate because it has to pay off a debt obligation within a month. The company may take more than one month to sell its property. If the company wants to sell the property quickly, the value of the property can result in a loss. In this case, trying to liquidate a real estate investment can have a high impact on its value. (For related reading, see What is the impact of inflation on liquid assets?)
Holy fuck!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
Secondly, for the longer term investments held (ie. less liquid), this passive income is taxed at the highest corporate rates - it doesn't qualify for the small business deductions and federal abatements.
Good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
Top corporate rate is 38%. Further, these wages you refer to that people have to work for - well this passive income in the corp isn't the owner's personal money to do with what he / she wants.
Yes it is.
[quote=Joekerr;22211946]
Its the corporation's money. So if the shareholder wants to use it to buy something (ie. like a person who is earning wages) then they have to withdraw it from the corporation, at which point, they are TAXED again on this withdrawal personally. [quote=Joekerr;22211946]
They are taxed on the profit - and you didn't say anything about owning a publicly traded corporation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
Depending on how they take it, there is normally some credit back to the corporation to achieve integration (which is just a fancy way to say that it shouldn't matter whether that money was earned individually or through a corp - the same amount of taxes will be paid at the ultimate end).

And our system is pretty well integrated. The only advantage to a corp is tax deferral - pushing out those taxes you would otherwise have to pay up front to a later year. But ultimately, it has to come out, and when it does, you are taxed.
What does this have to do with YOUR business?
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      09-19-2017, 04:33 PM   #17
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ITT, OP is lazy and expects the government to give him a handout for him to make more money.

Get a part time job, or do something else.
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      09-19-2017, 04:40 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
No, it's literally not liquid - which is why I KNOW you have literally NO IDEA what you're talking about.

http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answ...uid-assets.asp



Holy fuck!



Good.

Yes it is.

They are taxed on the profit - and you didn't say anything about owning a publicly traded corporation.


What does this have to do with YOUR business?

Your stupidity is astounding. I'm actually dumbfounded.

Ok, you don't think stocks / bonds / GIC's are fairly liquid. Gotcha. You're wrong, but hey, you'll never admit it.

Secondly, I specifically made a point about the longer term investments that are not liquid - like real estate. Which you quoted and then tried to twist as though somehow I lumped real estate into the liquid portion. Which I didn't do.

I can't even begin to comprehend the rest of the drivel coming from you. No one is talking about public corps - I'm talking about a person who owns shares in their own private corp. I have no idea what point you are trying to make, but I'm confident that like in always, you've completely missed the mark again.
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      09-19-2017, 04:50 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post

2. By suggesting he will increase the taxes on any income left in the corporation that is invested in passive means (ie. real estate, stocks, bonds, etc) so that the highest tax rate could even approach 70% according to various tax lawyers). Effectively saying that all business owners have no need of a rainy day fund to make payroll and know all the cash flow needs in advance. Also that business owners cannot save for their retirement in their corporations because that would be "unfair". Meanwhile, same business owners do not get sick days, vacation days, pension plans, severance etc that a non business owner employee would. So where is the fairness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
Your stupidity is astounding. I'm actually dumbfounded.

Ok, you don't think stocks / bonds / GIC's are fairly liquid. Gotcha. You're wrong, but hey, you'll never admit it.
Uh huh.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
No, it's literally not liquid - which is why I KNOW you have literally NO IDEA what you're talking about.

An example of a non-liquid asset is a real estate investment because it can take months for a person or company to receive cash from the sale. For example, suppose a company owns real estate property and wants to liquidate because it has to pay off a debt obligation within a month. The company may take more than one month to sell its property. If the company wants to sell the property quickly, the value of the property can result in a loss. In this case, trying to liquidate a real estate investment can have a high impact on its value. (For related reading, see What is the impact of inflation on liquid assets?)

http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answ...uid-assets.asp


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
Secondly, I specifically made a point about the longer term investments that are not liquid - like real estate. Which you quoted and then tried to twist as though somehow I lumped real estate into the liquid portion. Which I didn't do.
That's exactly what you did - I quoted it again, just in case you missed it before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
I can't even begin to comprehend the rest of the drivel coming from you. No one is talking about public corps - I'm talking about a person who owns shares in their own private corp. I have no idea what point you are trying to make, but I'm confident that like in always, you've completely missed the mark again.
You stated you're a small business owner, what does this conversation have to do with someone who owes share in a corporation?

This whole post has been you whining that the government isn't giving you preferred treatment because you make more money.

Either man up and keep your head down and work harder like MILLIONS of other people do who make less than you.

or

Whine about it and voluntarily make LESS money.
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      09-19-2017, 04:52 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
ITT, OP is lazy and expects the government to give him a handout for him to make more money.

Get a part time job, or do something else.
For the OP.
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      09-19-2017, 04:54 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
ITT, OP is lazy and expects the government to give him a handout for him to make more money.

Get a part time job, or do something else.

You're literally clueless.
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      09-19-2017, 04:59 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by sirdaft1 View Post
You're literally clueless.
LOL, you don't have a retort because then you'll have to be a hypocrite.

What, it's handout when people who make less than you want more benefits - but it's not when you want lower taxes on money you don't even work for?

Why should the government give preferred treatment to you - being rich and having more assets is it's own reward. If you don't want to, you're welcome to make LESS money, but something tells me you won't be lining up to do that.
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