Chris Harris drives the new E63S- Video inside

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by Phatcat

Don't think it has four wheel steering.

I have not seen this anywhere either....

[CarlosM4]

Yep, I also think the same thing. I couldn't find a single review that stated it. 4 Wheel steering is very expensive to implement, only a couple of dozen cars have it.

[Phatcat]

Originally Posted by CarlosM4

Yep, I also think the same thing. I couldn't find a single review that stated it. 4 Wheel steering is very expensive to implement, only a couple of dozen cars have it.

I'm certain it doesn't have it. If it does BMW would have brag about it in the video when they talk about the new M5.

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by CarlosM4

If the M5 F90 really comes with 4 wheel steering (haven't seen this anywhere though), it will completely murder the E 63. Everyone praises the E 63 current dynamics because it is that good, but 4 wheel steering in a lighter car, will make the E 63 look like a complete useless pig.

I doubt it will be lighter. I don't see how you can add AWD and 4 wheel steering and make it lighter. The added equipment will offset the weight savings.

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by CarlosM4

Yep, I also think the same thing. I couldn't find a single review that stated it. 4 Wheel steering is very expensive to implement, only a couple of dozen cars have it.

Including the BMW M550i

I'd be shocked if the M5 doesn't have it. I personally discussed this with Albert Bierman at the launch event of the last M5 as well as at the launch of the last M6GC and he said the tech wasn't ready for those M cars but he elected it to be ready for the next M5. Well here we are. And the M550i has it. So will the M5. Scott has also mentioned it.

[Dionysus]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

I'd be shocked if the M5 doesn't have it.

I agree, however, not sure it will make the M5 feel better to drive (see Panamera comments below). I was given an xdrive G30 sans integral active steering (IAS) for the day a few months ago and whilst driving with purpose on the road (within speed limits & limits of adhesion), you could feel the rear axle not tracking the same as the front. Quite disconcerting. A possible explanation for this was the long wheelbase and, hence, may explain why BMW has developed IAS for the G30. Another view may be that the early G30s are the beta version and some fine tuning/software updates will eventually cure this behavior, perhaps for the LCI.

One thing that was immediately obvious from the G30 drive, however, was how far BMW have shifted the standard G30's ride/handling balance from the 'boat-like' F10. The G30 is much closer to the M5 CP ride/handling balance, including the harsher secondary ride and road noise. I was a little surprised they decided to go this far, however, it does bode well for the new M5.

Although the xdrive in the M5 will most likely be a tuned version compared to the G30s, I could understand if M GmbH make IAS standard.

Incidentally, when discussing must-have options on the G30, the view was very few in the UK will spec IAS. We seem to have yet again arrived at another 5 series where the options will be key to obtaining the best ride/handling balance. Anyone specifying xdrive in a std G30, should seriously consider IAS.

I did also test drive a Panamera 4S D with air and rear-axle steering and there were times on twisty UK country lanes that the rear axle could be felt 'dragging' itself around corners (not in a positive way). At least it didn't feel as though the rear axle was tracking differently to the front as in the non-IAS equipped G30 xdrive. It was a totally different feeling to rear-axle steering in say a 991.2 CS, where at lower speeds it's difficult to 'feel' it's there (excluding the tighter turning circle), whereas it's very evident at higher speed corners.

Another observation I have on Porsche rear-axle steering is that at the same high speed corners, a 991.2 CS rear-axle steering can be felt helping you around the corner (albeit somewhat artificial in feel), whereas it can't be felt in a 991 GT3 RS at the same speed/corner. Although it's apples and oranges in terms of weight/wheelbase size, if they do make it standard, hopefully M GmbH will achieve similar results to the GT cars with IAS on the new M5, however, I fear we will have to await the LCI/CP cars before it's absolutely right. The E63, in the meantime, may be consider to have 'purer' steering in comparison to the M5, as per the previous generation.

[stealth.pilot]

I will take "faster" over "purer" any day.

[Dionysus]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

I will take "faster" over "purer" any day.

100% agree IAS sould make the M5 faster.

I've given up on 'faster' in the UK and now prefer 'purer'. I need to relocate to somewhere where one can still enjoy a fast car!

[somer]

New M5 doesn't have rear-axle steering, it was in the Timo Glock video

2:56

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

I will take "faster" over "purer" any day.

In a two ton plus sedan, I will do the same. The purpose of this car, for me, will be much of a GT Cruiser on toll roads and freeways and not the back road canyons (I have other cars for that as do you). And the majority of my driving, mileage wise, is on the public roads, freeways, and toll expressways where I find faster is what I want.

[Bimmer6]

Just got a note form my dealer production starts in February. Dealers should have order specs soon. He woundnt give me MSRP unless they have not gotten that yet.

[Vic55]

Just saw this regarding the E63S and others:

Originally Posted by Mr. Vanos

This is direct from my AMG Regional Manager today:

Folks - Unfortunate news on the certification of the E63W4S, GT R, and GT CA. Vehicle launches have been pushed to late August. All release timing is tentative as of right now.

Dealer communication – I will be sending a note early tomorrow morning to all AMG Performance Center dealers stating the wholesale release timing has been pushed from this month to late next month on these.

This is an emissions certification delay. Very unfortunate. Was hoping to get the car up to Pebble Beach in a few weeks.

[Bimmer6]

Originally Posted by Vic55

Just saw this regarding the E63S and others:

The US is punishing Germany for the VW mess. Porsche has late cars fir the same reasons.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by Bimmer6

The US is punishing Germany for the VW mess. Porsche has late cars fir the same reasons.

Audi is in the loop too...

[somer]

Originally Posted by Vic55

Audi is in the loop too...

Yeah I saw something about 2018 Audi RS3's are out before 2017 models? lol

[Bimmer6]

Guess M5 will get hit too.

[stealth.pilot]

We should create a petition on change.org about this.

It's ridiculous because they aren't just punishing the German OEMs, they are also punishing the American citizens who are buying these cars. And by the way there is a monetary damage to us consumers. If I register a 2018 car in June vs October it makes the one year cost of ownership 25% higher. The EPA is really screwing American citizens here.

[Bimmer6]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

We should create a petition on change.org about this.

It's ridiculous because they aren't just punishing the German OEMs, they are also punishing the American citizens who are buying these cars. And by the way there is a monetary damage to us consumers. If I register a 2018 car in June vs October it makes the one year cost of ownership 25% higher. The EPA is really screwing American citizens here.

Man do you really think the govt cares? There're doing it on purpose to show don't do it again. I spent a full day with congress on other issues, but I can tell you with all the crap they have now they can careless.

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by Bimmer6

Man do you really think the govt cares? There're doing it on purpose to show don't do it again. I spent a full day with congress on other issues, but I can tell you with all the crap they have now they can careless.

Thy seems like a bit of a defeatist mindset. I'd rather try than ignore.

Plus I agree Congress isn't the right audience, but what about the head of the EPA. Perhaps he isn't aware that most of these cars are ordered cars that American citizens are waiting on. Perhaps we can suggest he focus on non ordered cars like VWs instead of Porsche's, AMGs, etc.

[Bimmer6]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

Thy seems like a bit of a defeatist mindset. I'd rather try than ignore.

Plus I agree Congress isn't the right audience, but what about the head of the EPA. Perhaps he isn't aware that most of these cars are ordered cars that American citizens are waiting on. Perhaps we can suggest he focus on non ordered cars like VWs instead of Porsche's, AMGs, etc.

Not defeatist at all I spend a lot of time with the Feds, and I understand how long their processes take. Once a staffer sees the request, and gets the request it will be inline with all the others .......there is a process of importance. Safety, criminal, and this will fall below those and it will be over if it makes the list man. Let me know how it works out .......I have five consultations on retainer for D.C. stuff, and I'm trying to save you time bro(:

[Bimmer6]

Not good for our German friends. Spoke to my buddy at Porsche they have no 2018 cars to sell, and basically no inventory. All their cars are held up.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bertels...o#b976b405c1a6

[Vic55]

Just in case anyone wants to build the E63S- the configurator came live late last week:


https://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/vehic...b=tab-exterior