Who's getting the new M5?

[clar]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

But to me DCT is fun and I like it much better than ZF8; however I agree with you about the smoothness of ZF8 over DCT. ZF8 is a really great Gearbox but kind of lazy... It was good for my 650i but not my M6 IMO...
Clar the 6MT is lots of fun BTW

I have no doubt the 6MT is lots of fun. I don't mind having one for the sheer joy of rowing your own. I just don't have too much confidence in myself doing it on a high powered car. A MX5 or a NA Cayman might be ok, but in these crazy cars with all that torque? Money shift can be costly.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by clar

I have no doubt the 6MT is lots of fun. I don't mind having one for the sheer joy of rowing your own. I just don't have too much confidence in myself doing it on a high powered car. A MX5 or a NA Cayman might be ok, but in these crazy cars with all that torque? Money shift can be costly.

Well with the amazing rev match feature it's almost impossible to make any mistake for money shift unless the driver is sleepy or is one of those boyracers on M3/M4 forum who just get behind the wheel of momy's or daddy's car LOL

[clar]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

Well with the amazing rev match feature it's almost impossible to make any mistake for money shift unless the driver is sleepy or is one of those boyracers on M3/M4 forum who just get behind the wheel of momy's or daddy's car LOL

See, unlike most of the people here in Singapore, I went the easy way out. Instead of taking the grueling stick-only driving test here, I took mine while doing college in California. Calling that a driving test was more for formality sake. Because of that, my handling of the stick was limited to some rust bucket while I was struggling to make ends meet after the DotCom bubble. It was fun, but I never develop the confidence them boy racers do having done serious time using a stick. I really do fantasize getting a low powered stick for fun, but always end up getting drawn to those crazy new DCTs

[Phatcat]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

My point is the my $&@@ is too big argument is what Mercedes has used for god knows how long now to justify their use of an auto in AMG cars and it's just as BS coming from BMW . If they want to use a dct they can . Hell the Panamera Turbo S hybrid will have 800 nm and a PDK . Last time I checked the Veyron has had a DCT for how many years now ???

Ferrari LaFerrari uses the Getrag DCT but has 900Nm of torque engine and electric motor combined, the engine itself's torque is 700Nm. So it looks like the torque from the electric motor doesn't go though the gearbox or not effecting it as much.

I would think it's the same for Porsche.

Veryon yes, has a DCT, but the only one.

I agree with you it's possible but just strange how no other transmission companies make one similar to Ricardo's.

Maybe the latest and BMW tuned ZF 8 speed shift fast enough for it to be used.

[Msizzle]

i don't know if this is a dumb question but why can't bmw do similar clutch upgrades like we do in the aftermarket world, dodson or ssp? we have these cars up 2-300whp over stock and just add a clutch, they need to add may 30-50hp or so and be able to warranty it still, i don't see the huge challenge here

[Phatcat]

Originally Posted by Msizzle

i don't know if this is a dumb question but why can't bmw do similar clutch upgrades like we do in the aftermarket world, dodson or ssp? we have these cars up 2-300whp over stock and just add a clutch, they need to add may 30-50hp or so and be able to warranty it still, i don't see the huge challenge here

Every penny counts. Sure, everything on the car can be made better, a slightly bigger turbo here, a better intercooler there, stronger clutch and etc., and next thing you know you are over the budget.

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by Phatcat

Every penny counts. Sure, everything on the car can be made better, a slightly bigger turbo here, a better intercooler there, stronger clutch and etc., and next thing you know you are over the budget.

My point is we know the car won't make much more tq given the hp target and it's an S63 otherwise the motor will be shit up top , cough cough M4 . Looking at 530 lb feet tops . There are existing dual clutches , 911 Turbo S is one that can handle that and then some all day long with a real LC . Honestly I think it's bad information from the mag , been happening more and more lately . They really don't care if what they print is accurate . I don't see it not being a dct and the current one can handle the tq target they are likely to use .

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

My point is we know the car won't make much more tq given the hp target and it's an S63 otherwise the motor will be shit up top , cough cough M4 . Looking at 530 lb feet tops . There are existing dual clutches , 911 Turbo S is one that can handle that and then some all day long with a real LC . Honestly I think it's bad information from the mag , been happening more and more lately . They really don't care if what they print is accurate . I don't see it not being a dct and the current one can handle the tq target they are likely to use .

Trans-axle configuration (such as 911 or AMG-GTS) can handle more torque...
However there are lots of evidences prove the current under-rated S63tu is generating about 550-560 lb-ft; so basically 911 has no more torque ... Anyways this is an old discussion and not worth to start it again. Let's see what's going on with F90 M5!

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

Trans-axle configuration (such as 911 or AMG-GTS) can handle more torque...
However there are lots of evidences prove the current under-rated S63tu is generating about 550-560 lb-ft; so basically 911 has no more torque ... Anyways this is an old discussion and not worth to start it again. Let's see what's going on with F90 M5!

No the S63 does not make more and it is not underrated but not going to get into the inflated dyno because my junk is too small phenomena that goes on now a days again .

[Phatcat]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

My point is we know the car won't make much more tq given the hp target and it's an S63 otherwise the motor will be shit up top , cough cough M4 . Looking at 530 lb feet tops . There are existing dual clutches , 911 Turbo S is one that can handle that and then some all day long with a real LC . Honestly I think it's bad information from the mag , been happening more and more lately . They really don't care if what they print is accurate . I don't see it not being a dct and the current one can handle the tq target they are likely to use .

911 Turbo S's TQ is the same as the M5/6 (except in overboost mode in which it is 750Nm), so I wouldn't say just because Turbo S can use DCT, why can't the new M5. M5 box's current supplier Getrag has a DCT that is rated at 750Nm which all Ferrari uses.

I understand your point of it is possible to have a DCT that handles higher TQ, Ricardo makes one for Bugatti, Porsche and ZF developed the new 8 speed PDK, maybe there are cost issues involved.

There are a lot of reasons could involved if BMW does switch to ZF. Maybe they find most M5 owners wants a smoother auto box, maybe ZF offered them a good price that they can't refuse, heck, maybe ZF found a way to sell the 8speed PDK or a variation of it to BMW, the list could go on.

I agree until we see the official spec. we shouldn't jump into conclusion. My original post is simply to create a topic of discussion.

[Blackraven]

Something must be up when even Audi ditches their DSG in favor of an 8 speed auto..................for their Audi S4

http://jalopnik.com/the-new-audi-s4-...sio-1730778195

[SSPKris]

Has any one heard what they are going to use for a transmission in the new AWD BMW?

Automatic?
Dual Clutch?

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by Phatcat

911 Turbo S's TQ is the same as the M5/6 (except in overboost mode in which it is 750Nm), so I wouldn't say just because Turbo S can use DCT, why can't the new M5. M5 box's current supplier Getrag has a DCT that is rated at 750Nm which all Ferrari uses.

.

^^^ This

[M5Rlz]

Originally Posted by Blackraven

Something must be up when even Audi ditches their DSG in favor of an 8 speed auto..................for their Audi S4

http://jalopnik.com/the-new-audi-s4-...sio-1730778195

I doubt its anything related to power, or longevity.. Look no further than the abuse and power they are making on lamborghini DCTs, PDK, and GT-Rs thats not including the v8 m3's with ESS kits, where the rod bearings are going bad long before the transmission is a problem, or even the F10 cars and F80 M4 god cars.

Probably just because the ZF seems just as capable and is probably a cheaper alternative.

[gblansten]

I'll probably get the 2020 M5 in the spring of that year.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by SSPKris

Has any one heard what they are going to use for a transmission in the new AWD BMW?

Automatic?
Dual Clutch?

8 speed ZF automatic. Pretty much what is in the X5M/X6M.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by gblansten

8 speed ZF automatic. Pretty much what is in the X5M/X6M.

X5M and X6M are over 5000 lb! Still there is possibility for DCT on M5/M6 since they wont be that heavy! 600 lb-ft can be handled by modified DCT!!!

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by gblansten

8 speed ZF automatic. Pretty much what is in the X5M/X6M.

I agree, based on the releases and the 8 speed auto its the odds on.

I have had multiple cars with higher hp engines tuned (over 600 hp) with the ZF: RS7, Jag Ftype R, Bentley GT3R... and while the DCT is better, for 90% of the drivers out there who talk the game but dont really drive the game; they will never know the difference. Hell they barely even push their cars LOL. The ZF8 will be just fine and in AWD content no one will be crying about power on tap or wheel slip.

What they will find is an easy to drive 600+ hp machine.

[clar]

Originally Posted by Vic55

I agree, based on the releases and the 8 speed auto its the odds on.

I have had multiple cars with higher hp engines tuned (over 600 hp) with the ZF: RS7, Jag Ftype R, Bentley GT3R... and while the DCT is better, for 90% of the drivers out there who talk the game but dont really drive the game; they will never know the difference. Hell they barely even push their cars LOL. The ZF8 will be just fine and in AWD content no one will be crying about power on tap or wheel slip.

What they will find is an easy to drive 600+ hp machine.

Unfortunately, there will always be people who instead of focusing on how well things are done, they prefer to kill themselves with how things are done. The only advantage of DCT over ZF autos is the shift time, which isn't a very meaningful metric in monster sedans. The X6M with a ZF auto is a gem to drive. I enjoyed the drive immensely!

[cjackson1906]

Originally Posted by Vic55

I agree, based on the releases and the 8 speed auto its the odds on.

I have had multiple cars with higher hp engines tuned (over 600 hp) with the ZF: RS7, Jag Ftype R, Bentley GT3R... and while the DCT is better, for 90% of the drivers out there who talk the game but dont really drive the game; they will never know the difference. Hell they barely even push their cars LOL. The ZF8 will be just fine and in AWD content no one will be crying about power on tap or wheel slip.

What they will find is an easy to drive 600+ hp machine.

I agree with you. So since you have had most of these cars, which one would you suggest: F90 M5 (even though you haven't driven it yet); RS7 Performance; or new MB E63 AMG-S?

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by clar

Unfortunately, there will always be people who instead of focusing on how well things are done, they prefer to kill themselves with how things are done. The only advantage of DCT over ZF autos is the shift time, which isn't a very meaningful metric in monster sedans. The X6M with a ZF auto is a gem to drive. I enjoyed the drive immensely!

Clar people have different taste and different interest and you can't compare and judge them easily. Vic has had several cars with ZF and he enjoyed them. You drove the X6M with ZF and enjoyed. That's fine ... I believe ZF is designed for people like you and that's considerable.

I jumped to M6 from 650i because I was suffering from ZF. ...I test drove the X6M because I wanted to get X6M after M6 but you know what? I only test drove the car for 2 blocks and then immediately returned to dealership. The CA was shocked but I said you know what? it's enough ... I hate this transmission. The same feeling after I test drove the Jag F-Type....Period

End of rant

Well but I am still enjoying the 6 MT

[clar]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

Clar people have different taste and different interest and you can't compare and judge them easily. Vic has had several cars with ZF and he enjoyed them. You drove the X6M with ZF and enjoyed. That's fine ... I believe ZF is designed for people like you and that's considerable.

I jumped to M6 from 650i because I was suffering from ZF. ...I test drove the X6M because I wanted to get X6M after M6 but you know what? I only test drove the car for 2 blocks and then immediately returned to dealership. The CA was shocked but I said you know what? it's enough ... I hate this transmission. The same feeling after I test drove the Jag F-Type....Period

End of rant

Well but I am still enjoying the 6 MT

Seriously, if u drove the X6M for 2 blocks and turned back, u were never serious with that car to begin with. May I ask what is it about the ZF in the X6M that bothered u this much? U went to M6 from a 650i due to the gearbox? I drove the M6 on the track and it was a really nice drive. I think the difference between the M6 and the 650i is far more than simply the gearbox and speed.