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      02-14-2011, 09:17 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uhn2000 View Post
I think BMW confuses sales with success

Couldn't have said it better myself.
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      02-14-2011, 09:17 PM   #24
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They are forgetting what it is that got them to where they are. Their market doesn't want it? Frog farts. This is pure bean counter BS.

If they proceed with this decision, I imagine they will lose a significant portion of their customers. All of the sudden, Porsche starts to look much more attractive.

This company is starting to lose their way. Sad, really.
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      02-14-2011, 09:29 PM   #25
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I highly doubt it that it will be "auto" only. Though I have to admit, an //MX6 auto is justified; the RPM redlines before you even blink your eyes. Granted that a person is a fast shifter, a manual MX6 will be impossible to drive "if" a person is not driving it leisurely. Now, take a RWD TT V8 M5, which is lighter, has has more HP and more torque and voila, you will be riding the redline left and right.
It is not just BMW that is making the move towards Auto Trannies. Porsche is doing so with PDK, yet they are keeping certain segment for their hardcore "manual" only fans. MB has done so with their AMG for a long long time; and same with AUDI. Ferrari has been doing so since the introduction of the F1 transmission.
Thus, to those that keep complaining: BMW is being watered down, and BMW lost its lust, and BMW will loose customers-give me a break. I mean, come on, what will be your next car? MB? AUDI? etc... All their high performance cars are offered in auto only.
LIke I always say: you can't beat them, join them.
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      02-14-2011, 09:46 PM   #26
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BMW forgot the 80/20 rule of business.
80% of the profits come from 20% of the buyers.
BMW has fallen into tue trap of listening to the general public instead of complying to the demands of its buyers.
They should instead keep the 20% of the people, who constantly buy their cars year after year, happy.
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      02-14-2011, 09:48 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eatrach73 View Post
I highly doubt it that it will be "auto" only. Though I have to admit, an //MX6 auto is justified; the RPM redlines before you even blink your eyes. Granted that a person is a fast shifter, a manual MX6 will be impossible to drive "if" a person is not driving it leisurely. Now, take a RWD TT V8 M5, which is lighter, has has more HP and more torque and voila, you will be riding the redline left and right.
It is not just BMW that is making the move towards Auto Trannies. Porsche is doing so with PDK, yet they are keeping certain segment for their hardcore "manual" only fans. MB has done so with their AMG for a long long time; and same with AUDI. Ferrari has been doing so since the introduction of the F1 transmission.
Thus, to those that keep complaining: BMW is being watered down, and BMW lost its lust, and BMW will loose customers-give me a break. I mean, come on, what will be your next car? MB? AUDI? etc... All their high performance cars are offered in auto only.
LIke I always say: you can't beat them, join them.
I disagree. Save the manuals!
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      02-14-2011, 09:51 PM   #28
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The sole purpose I love and praise BMW is because they are far superior to AMG and all other motorsports models in the same price range. They actually offer a raw connection with the road; manual.

BMW making the move over to automatic, makes them lose me as a loyal customer.

Farewell ///M if you keep this up.

I would be all over the 1M if it wasn't the same engine as the 335. I love the car, but I don't know if its worth it...I rather just have a 335. I feel as if the E36 M, E46 M, even the M6 with its SMG transmission fulfilled all customers requests and preferences to every extent. SMG FEELS like manual...rolls backwards on hills, you can feel the shifts, etc.

Even the E92 M (Im not a huge fan of its weird unproportional looking styling) - but all this new stuff coming out? Garbage. How can you have an M in a fully slushy Auto. Not a fan here. I want to go to a racetrack and enjoy amazing downshifts and heel/toe.

Founding fathers' would not be happy.
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      02-14-2011, 10:04 PM   #29
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And what Porsche model starts looking more attractive? The only Porsche competitor to the M5 is the Panamera Turbo & it comes only with the PDK. There are no competitors with a manual. Have you even tried the new 8 speed Auto transmission? I'm a great fan of MTs and hate ATs, but this new ZF tranny is really good. It really changed my mind about ATs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2thdr View Post
They are forgetting what it is that got them to where they are. Their market doesn't want it? Frog farts. This is pure bean counter BS.

If they proceed with this decision, I imagine they will lose a significant portion of their customers. All of the sudden, Porsche starts to look much more attractive.

This company is starting to lose their way. Sad, really.
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      02-14-2011, 10:07 PM   #30
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      02-14-2011, 10:19 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmed_fawzy View Post
An automatic M5 and M6, what could be worse, first turbocharged then autos they obviously lost their minds.
Have you seen what we have done with the 335i? Sorry, but I think the guys at M division know what they are doing.
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      02-14-2011, 10:20 PM   #32
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      02-14-2011, 10:36 PM   #33
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this is rather dissapointing
I hope this is just rumor though, and BMW gets its act right
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      02-14-2011, 10:42 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eatrach73 View Post
I mean, come on, what will be your next car? MB? AUDI? etc... All their high performance cars are offered in auto only.
Exactly. BMW, the automaker which seemed to be the "option" for manual cars, may soon be the same as the rest. This is the reason for the disappointment from fans - the last alternative is fading.
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      02-14-2011, 10:43 PM   #35
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sorry, but that pic doesn't look like an auto tranny... the steering wheel may not have paddles, but that doesn't mean that's not a DCT... either way, there are getrag DCT's that can handle over 550tlb-ft and BMW can always go to ricardo. Motor Trend can suck my left one...
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      02-14-2011, 10:43 PM   #36
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i dont care if they only have auto in m5 or m6. but leave the m3 as is
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      02-14-2011, 10:48 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWPower06 View Post
Dropping the V10 for a TT V8...
agreed.
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      02-14-2011, 11:17 PM   #38
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You guys do realize that the shift times between the DCT and ZF autos are negligible? They are that fast. Heck, when the 2007 335i came out, the ZF auto tranny claims 100ms shift times. I owned one. It was damn fast. Furthermore, there isn't a break in the drive train with auto trannies when shifting.

I don't think most here understand the actual drive train mechanics. The M5/6 will be rockets, and having a DCT will not make it any faster.

I HIGHLY doubt there will be no manual option for the foreseeable future. BMW's M division said recently they have no plans to do away with them. They do, however, talk about dumping the M-DCT.


Edit: Even read about AMG's new 7-speed:

http://www.benzinsider.com/2008/11/a...agazine-award/

100ms shift times

Last edited by conradb; 02-14-2011 at 11:23 PM..
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      02-14-2011, 11:20 PM   #39
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Lack of DCT or 6MT is appaling. It's one thing to skip the 6MT for performance reasons, or even for sales reasons. But lack of DCT is ridiculous.
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      02-14-2011, 11:35 PM   #40
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Step 1. Build brilliant performance cars.
Step 2. Build lowest common denominator people-carriers to increase sales.
Step 3. Dumb down your performance cars to suit the new crowd.

This is a recipe for FAIL. I am about to order an '11 335i, and manual trans is a *requirement*. Any brand that phases out manual trans is not getting my business. Ala the IS350 that is NOT parked in my driveway right now. Don't screw up, BMW.
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      02-14-2011, 11:43 PM   #41
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maybe just because it is so much lighter but the Corvette ZR1 puts down 608 ft-lbs of torque...it is manual (and FI too!). Am I comparing apples to oranges here? Yes I am with the cars but come on, a manual transmission can handle torque.

If this is about track times then give me a break. offer both.
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      02-14-2011, 11:45 PM   #42
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I don't know if everyone above ever tried the ZF 8-speed tranny? Trust me, it's damn fast, it does change my mind about ATs. I don't think DCT will make the TT M5 faster.
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      02-14-2011, 11:48 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako View Post
So what are all you haters going to buy? Audi, Merc, Cad, all have or are going to have turbos/sc engines. Audi still has some sticks but I think Mercedes is all auto now.

And just because people on this forum want a NA engine and a stick that doesn't translate to all M buyers, just the purists which are a small percentage so car companies don't care if they piss you off, it's all about the $$$, this isn't the 70s/80s.
Porsche. One of the few companies in the 'affordable' range that still caters to the enthusiast.
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      02-14-2011, 11:49 PM   #44
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Scott said some time ago that the next gen M5 would be automatic only.

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...&postcount=321
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