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      01-15-2015, 09:56 AM   #67
Erik K.
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Here it did easily 328 with the PP-performance tune.




(The movie says 800HP because PP claimend 791HP measured on the MAHA dyno... and later some more because of other down-pipes. We think it wasn't more than 710HP at that time.. Because the car did about 620WHP)
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      01-15-2015, 10:04 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMS ALPHA View Post
I dont think going with a no muffler system will gain anything measurable with this car. The system on it is pretty free flowing. Again, the turbos at this level are about maxed out so until we upgrade those (which we have available) you are not going to see any large gains regardless of what you do to the car. This system on the car now is a pretty stout setup.

Regarding methanol as was touched on in our other thread we are not big supporters of it. If the system is being used with a 50/50 mix strictly for cooling that is fine as when the system fails (and it will) you are not looking at any severe engine damage. However when using 100% methanol as a supplemental fueling solution you are opening the door to a big "?" in terms of reliability. We have never seen a system not fail and even some of the fail-safe systems have not done what they were supposed to do.

Eric
Because there are cars with bolt ons on piggy backs with meth running 670-680 whp with 520- 530whp baseline. And also why do we need fail safe ? I know some people are taking it to extreme with 6-7 pounds of boost above, but I've also seen cars with 3.5 psi on meth running 134mph traps. Thanks
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      01-15-2015, 10:18 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by AstonMartian777 View Post
Because there are cars with bolt ons on piggy backs with meth running 670-680 whp with 520- 530whp baseline. And also why do we need fail safe ? I know some people are taking it to extreme with 6-7 pounds of boost above, but I've also seen cars with 3.5 psi on meth running 134mph traps. Thanks
If the car is tuned to run on pure Methanol to increase the overall octane of the fuel for detonation suppression and that methanol no longer present the car will detonate...that is never a good thing. It's all in how its tuned and how much they are relying on that methanol.

Do you have a link to these dynocharts for these cars making 670-680whp that baselined 520-530whp? I am genuinely interested. Again comparing dyno charts is maddening as there isnt much point to it...they all read differently especially if in this case it isn't a dynojet.

Raising the boost on this car isn't going to be an option. The turbos are at their safe limit. The only advantage the methanol system would introduce is for intake air temps/cooling. Again expecting huge gains above what we have done on the stock turbos just isn't realistic.

Eric

Last edited by AMS ALPHA; 01-15-2015 at 10:30 AM..
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      01-15-2015, 10:35 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Erik K. View Post
Martin,

That's certainly not an aerodynamic/horsepower limit
Car was pulling hard to ~320km/h at that time the speedlimiter was slowly pulling back the power and the car stopped at 326. Sometimes the car runs 328, sometimes 322.. We shifted to 7th gear to check if it would matter. The car stayed at 326. If the engine wouldn't have enough power the car would have slowed down in 7th. It didn't.
If the limiter would have been gone the would easily do >350km/h.
PP-performance showed it with there M6GC with almost the same power.

Accoording to Leib the limiters were set to 400km/h
I guess it would help to see some logs or more video. Looking at the video again it's hard to tell because he seems to shift right as it gets to 326 km/h. It's hard to test here in the US because 200mph is the limit for out dyno and we don't have the Autobahn here

Are they able to log any parameters?

Martin
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      01-15-2015, 10:39 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AstonMartian777 View Post
I know n54 handle 700whp on stock internals, no one blew up yet.

Martin thank you for joining this thread, we're all patiently waiting for final results and turbo results, hopefully it will be sooner than we expect and we will see bigger gains than AMG 63 considering we have more bolt ons available for the s63tu, what do you think in regards to that ?

1. Do you think there's more HP to squeeze out with the set up, or this is where you at ?
2. Will full straight turbo back ktles, mufflerless be significant over the system on the test car ?
3. Do you have to drill in the ecu ? What are the risks we're taking ?
4. Is it possible to integrate methanol as it's convenient for every day.
Thanks !
We're going back on the dyno this week hopefully and do more testing but i believe on our pump gas without adding more timing the car won't make much more power because the turbochargers are maxed out.

I have not seen the inside of the exhaust that is on the car but based on sound it's probably pretty free flowing, I doubt there would be any gains at all going to a muffler-less design.

Yes we have to put two small holes on the top of the case to reach a pad on the board. We have a process we do here that is not simply drilling two holes, we have a way to put the holes there without any metal chips getting inside the ECU Pulling the cover off the ECU is not recommended on this ECU because it is very easy to damage something when you do.

What do you mean by integrate methanol? Like methanol injection or running methanol as a primary fuel source (in the gas tank).

Martin
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      01-15-2015, 10:50 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMS ALPHA View Post
I guess it would help to see some logs or more video. Looking at the video again it's hard to tell because he seems to shift right as it gets to 326 km/h. It's hard to test here in the US because 200mph is the limit for out dyno and we don't have the Autobahn here

Are they able to log any parameters?

Martin
Yes to bad you don't have the Autobahn to test these things

Unfortunately this M5 has been sold so no more logs/video's to make with this car...another beast is coming
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      01-15-2015, 11:10 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMS ALPHA View Post
We're going back on the dyno this week hopefully and do more testing but i believe on our pump gas without adding more timing the car won't make much more power because the turbochargers are maxed out.

I have not seen the inside of the exhaust that is on the car but based on sound it's probably pretty free flowing, I doubt there would be any gains at all going to a muffler-less design.

Yes we have to put two small holes on the top of the case to reach a pad on the board. We have a process we do here that is not simply drilling two holes, we have a way to put the holes there without any metal chips getting inside the ECU Pulling the cover off the ECU is not recommended on this ECU because it is very easy to damage something when you do.

What do you mean by integrate methanol? Like methanol injection or running methanol as a primary fuel source (in the gas tank).

Martin
Yes I meant methanol injection, because as I've mentioned people with methanol make 670-680 whp on dynojet. But again, I wouldn't want to depend on meth going + 6 or 7 psi , but I've seen people adding high concentrate of meth to 3.5 psi with piggy back getting high numbers and running over 130mph trap speeds. Is there anyway to use meth to gain power not only for cooling purposes but in case of meth kit fail for timing to adjust to only pump gas ? Not to damage anything ? Thanks ! and as far as exhaust besides mufflers, there are cats on the downpipes you're running, I don't see how fully free exhaust wont benefit. But then again, how much extra lbs of boost is it pushing with your tune ? Thanks !
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      01-15-2015, 11:13 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMS ALPHA
Quote:
Originally Posted by AstonMartian777 View Post
Because there are cars with bolt ons on piggy backs with meth running 670-680 whp with 520- 530whp baseline. And also why do we need fail safe ? I know some people are taking it to extreme with 6-7 pounds of boost above, but I've also seen cars with 3.5 psi on meth running 134mph traps. Thanks
If the car is tuned to run on pure Methanol to increase the overall octane of the fuel for detonation suppression and that methanol no longer present the car will detonate...that is never a good thing. It's all in how its tuned and how much they are relying on that methanol.

Do you have a link to these dynocharts for these cars making 670-680whp that baselined 520-530whp? I am genuinely interested. Again comparing dyno charts is maddening as there isnt much point to it...they all read differently especially if in this case it isn't a dynojet.

Raising the boost on this car isn't going to be an option. The turbos are at their safe limit. The only advantage the methanol system would introduce is for intake air temps/cooling. Again expecting huge gains above what we have done on the stock turbos just isn't realistic.

Eric
Yours is the first dyno I've seen that I actually believe is accurate . These 670-680 whp and 800 crank dyno's are quite frankly manipulated by vendors and by dyno operators to make customers happy . This is the worst I've ever seen it , thank you for bringing some reality to this forum .
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      01-15-2015, 11:28 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmd2003 View Post
Yours is the first dyno I've seen that I actually believe is accurate . These 670-680 whp and 800 crank dyno's are quite frankly manipulated by vendors and by dyno operators to make customers happy . This is the worst I've ever seen it , thank you for bringing some reality to this forum .
The 670whp and 645 wtrq was my car and I i gaurantee the Dyno wasn't altered I have probably 100 Dyno pulls just on my M6. My M5 stock did 545 whp with charcial filter. To bring some light to the so called Dyno operator theory, there's no reason to mess with the Dyno when I'm trying to prove before and after gains to bring true light to the upgrades including your favorite 60-130 Vbox runs.
Also we've dynoed other cars in the same Dyno with same results and different cars for example my cousins SL65 and made 524whp with exhaust upgrade. Then even brought a sl63 for pre Dyno runs before header and exhaust install and the car did 405whp.
So if your car didn't Dyno 670whp then don't put your two cents in. I speak from experience and don't appreciate calling my a lier. My car has world record 10.7 129mph. Those are the facts no reason to lie.

Last edited by m6beast; 01-15-2015 at 11:34 AM..
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      01-15-2015, 11:47 AM   #76
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As for AMS thanks for posting your results good to hear someone has the capabilities to go further. Good Job and can't wait to see bigger turbo results!
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      01-15-2015, 11:51 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m6beast
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmd2003 View Post
Yours is the first dyno I've seen that I actually believe is accurate . These 670-680 whp and 800 crank dyno's are quite frankly manipulated by vendors and by dyno operators to make customers happy . This is the worst I've ever seen it , thank you for bringing some reality to this forum .
The 670whp and 645 wtrq was my car and I i gaurantee the Dyno wasn't altered I have probably 100 Dyno pulls just on my M6. My M5 stock did 545 whp with charcial filter. To bring some light to the so called Dyno operator theory, there's no reason to mess with the Dyno when I'm trying to prove before and after gains to bring true light to the upgrades including your favorite 60-130 Vbox runs.
Also we've dynoed other cars in the same Dyno with same results and different cars for example my cousins SL65 and made 524whp with exhaust upgrade. Then even brought a sl63 for pre Dyno runs before header and exhaust install and the car did 405whp.
So if your car didn't Dyno 670whp then don't put your two cents in. I speak from experience and don't appreciate calling my a lier. My car has world record 10.7 129mph. Those are the facts no reason to lie.
George I was talking about vendor dyno's ( I won't name names) but you have to admit 129mph trap is low for 670- 680whp on a DCT car . You don't set up the dyno's so not your fault and I wasn't calling YOU a liar . That doesn't mean I believe your car makes 680 whp though. By the way 129mph at Darlington is faster than 134 at ATCO ( a stock C7 vette trapped 124 mph at ATCO lol) . You def have the fastest M5/6 period I just don't think a lot of the dyno jets results on this forum are accurate . And vendors are manipulating them ( using IAT temps for correction instead of atmospheric , altitude correction , different calibration etc .) Takes nothing away from what you've done to you're car , track performance can't be manipulated .
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      01-15-2015, 12:01 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m6beast
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmd2003 View Post
Yours is the first dyno I've seen that I actually believe is accurate . These 670-680 whp and 800 crank dyno's are quite frankly manipulated by vendors and by dyno operators to make customers happy . This is the worst I've ever seen it , thank you for bringing some reality to this forum .
The 670whp and 645 wtrq was my car and I i gaurantee the Dyno wasn't altered I have probably 100 Dyno pulls just on my M6. My M5 stock did 545 whp with charcial filter. To bring some light to the so called Dyno operator theory, there's no reason to mess with the Dyno when I'm trying to prove before and after gains to bring true light to the upgrades including your favorite 60-130 Vbox runs.
Also we've dynoed other cars in the same Dyno with same results and different cars for example my cousins SL65 and made 524whp with exhaust upgrade. Then even brought a sl63 for pre Dyno runs before header and exhaust install and the car did 405whp.
So if your car didn't Dyno 670whp then don't put your two cents in. I speak from experience and don't appreciate calling my a lier. My car has world record 10.7 129mph. Those are the facts no reason to lie.
What does you're car run 60-130 now George ?
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      01-15-2015, 12:14 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmd2003 View Post
What does you're car run 60-130 now George ?
Thanks man sorry I guess I felt that was a message towards me. Please forgive me. I actually haven't run it again on the Vbox been playing with the M4 working on some product development for that car. So stock with just JB4 on map 7 60-130mph did 7.8 best average 7.9. That was stock car just JB4. Sorry to talk about something totally different.

But in the mean time have a custimer of mine that has my products on his car coming from NJ to run 1/2 mile in Florida. we gonna Dyno his car here to compare and Vbox. He has almost the same mods as my M6 just different exhaust.

I would like to come your way and test Vbox see comparable numbers will be more accurate road/slope ect.

Any way good job, AMS will be keeping an eye on your results thanks again for pushing the envelope.

G
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      01-15-2015, 12:20 PM   #80
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All this development looks great! I'm going to wait for an OBD flash though. I simply don't want anyone touching my ECU boxes.
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      01-15-2015, 12:34 PM   #81
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All this development looks great! I'm going to wait for an OBD flash though. I simply don't want anyone touching my ECU boxes.
I agree! Especially all the work to take them out ship them out reinstall pain in the ass.... Happy with my setup feel next option for me will be turbos with a tune.
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      01-15-2015, 12:41 PM   #82
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Real tune > inconsistent piggy back any day
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      01-15-2015, 12:49 PM   #83
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Can you just remove the speed limiter? I am not interested in any HP gains given the 560 HP is going to be huge for me as it is.

Would you be able to do the speed limiter removal remotely?

Thanks
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      01-15-2015, 12:54 PM   #84
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Can you just remove the speed limiter? I am not interested in any HP gains given the 560 HP is going to be huge for me as it is.

Would you be able to do the speed limiter removal remotely?

Thanks
Where are you going to go above 155 ? Stock m5 is not fast at all.
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      01-15-2015, 03:59 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMS ALPHA View Post
If the car is tuned to run on pure Methanol to increase the overall octane of the fuel for detonation suppression and that methanol no longer present the car will detonate...that is never a good thing. It's all in how its tuned and how much they are relying on that methanol.

Do you have a link to these dynocharts for these cars making 670-680whp that baselined 520-530whp? I am genuinely interested. Again comparing dyno charts is maddening as there isnt much point to it...they all read differently especially if in this case it isn't a dynojet.

Raising the boost on this car isn't going to be an option. The turbos are at their safe limit. The only advantage the methanol system would introduce is for intake air temps/cooling. Again expecting huge gains above what we have done on the stock turbos just isn't realistic.

Eric
Hi Eric,
I'm a good friend of Tom Passalacqua's, and these runs where done on his dyno.
We added 5 gallons of MS109 on an empty tank. We ran to 5k rpms let it cool down then made this pull. The run was done in 5th gear hence the rpm cutoff. I'm sure some adaptation would have yielded more. Just didn't want to push it beyond this.

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      01-15-2015, 05:04 PM   #86
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Finally someone is really going to push thru the limit of the S63tu, hopefully is something real. We have all the hardware standby for the true tune! (Bigger turbo, Methanol, Nitrous) Lol.........
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      01-15-2015, 07:15 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AstonMartian777
Quote:
Originally Posted by E90potentialbuyer View Post
Can you just remove the speed limiter? I am not interested in any HP gains given the 560 HP is going to be huge for me as it is.

Would you be able to do the speed limiter removal remotely?

Thanks
Where are you going to go above 155 ? Stock m5 is not fast at all.
If I'm paying full price for the car I don't want any damn limiters on it. I will be tracking it and yes I doubt I'll go above 155 but for principle I don't want a limiter
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      01-15-2015, 07:15 PM   #88
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AMS I'm interested in being the first alpha9 F10 m5 . Can we make this happen ?ðŸ˜
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