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      04-20-2014, 06:07 PM   #89
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Swap for a marquee with this?
I'd drink her beach water.
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      04-20-2014, 06:09 PM   #90
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Yawn. I have been to performance school more times than you have been to the toilet.
I bet you did.
America might be "above" us like you said, but Americans rank among the lousiest drivers (*).

The last US boys who gave it a try in F1 (Cheever, Sullivan, Michael Andretti) got humiliated. When they got back to the US they were very successful again and went on to win races.
On the other hand, many mediocre euro drivers who couldn't even get a job in F1 (Luyendyk, Bräck, Bourdais, Franchitti) were highly successful in IndyCar/Champcar.



(*) on four wheels. US MotoGP riders Roberts, Lawson, Spencer, Rainey and Schwantz are obviously true legends.
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      04-20-2014, 06:19 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdList View Post
He gets attacked for it and told that he should "get a different car" or "should have known better". He never said he hated or didn't want the car. I don't think I have ever purchased a car and loved everything about it
Yes but the issue he is pointing out is not an issue with several other 2014 competitors E63 and RS7 as examples. He bought a 2014, he had a choice to get all that power with AWD. He chose RWD and now says RWD is "meh". That means he should have known better. I had the same choice as him, and at the end of the day I chose the M5. I find it both fun, and scary at the same time.

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Originally Posted by ColdList View Post
It does not put the power down well. It SPINS very very easily. We all know it. We all have one. We all can just go right out in the driveway, fire it up, stomp on the gas and burn the wheels-meaning that you CANNOT effectively put all the power down to the road.... I always felt that my M5 was just right there on the edge of being reckless for lack of a better term.
The qualities which you describe as being so evident we should all agree are not "meh" qualities. A car that is outright on the edge of control that spins easily is either loved or hated. But only a guy who is dead on the inside would be indifferent to it. Its not a fucking Camry.

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The car is a MAGNIFICENT Grand-Tourer and let's face it, GTs are not really meant for drag races, hard curves or TRACK. It is one of the OUTSTANDING cars and certainly better than most cars on the road-hands down best in class but it is not perfect. The power to the road issue is just one of the challenges with it. EVERY car has it's shortcomings.
Again your words describe a car which is either loved or hated. I don't see how you can be indifferent to it.

I am a man of positions, and my position is that the OP is either prone to poor decision making for buying a car which didn't have the characteristics he prefers, dead on the inside because he is so apathetic that he needs to blog about, or just used words poorly - in which case he should learn that the words we use are important. Especially the adjectives.
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      04-20-2014, 06:20 PM   #92
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It's called throttle modulation. You control wheel spin and grip with your right foot.
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      04-20-2014, 06:25 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Hoopumpers View Post
It's called throttle modulation. You control wheel spin and grip with your right foot.
Rob, agreed 100%. My position on that is that most just cannot do that well in most situations. You, as a track guy-perhaps. However, I don't think you would ever argue that your RWD GT3 puts down power far better than the M5. Different cars yes but a point of reference.
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      04-20-2014, 06:39 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by stealth.pilot View Post
Yes but the issue he is pointing out is not an issue with several other 2014 competitors E63 and RS7 as examples. He bought a 2014, he had a choice to get all that power with AWD. He chose RWD and now says RWD is "meh". That means he should have known better. I had the same choice as him, and at the end of the day I chose the M5.
Doesn't make him an idiot. Seems to like most qualities of the car. Again, I don't see anything wrong with pointing out dislikes as well as likes.

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Originally Posted by stealth.pilot View Post
I find it both fun, and scary at the same time.
Well you're just freaking nuts like that.



Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth.pilot View Post
The qualities which you describe as being so evident we should all agree are not "meh" qualities.
Wait...are you using the word "meh"?


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Originally Posted by stealth.pilot View Post
A car that is outright on the edge of control that spins easily is either loved or hated. But only a guy who is dead on the inside would be indifferent to it. Its not a fucking Camry.
Not sure what to say here because on one hand I do agree that it is hard to be indifferent on a car like this. Camry-I can see it. Gets you from A to Z and you are indifferent until it leaves you stranded. Then you move right into hate.-lol!

On the other hand, I don't know if he was actually saying that he was indifferent. Truthfully, I don't like the word "meh" either but I don't think it makes him a fool. He'll have to answer as to indifference. Personally, i went from "Love it" to "not crazy about it" and a lot of it had to do with tiring of the wheel spin.

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Originally Posted by stealth.pilot View Post
Again your words describe a car which is either loved or hated. I don't see how you can be indifferent to it.
Same as my comment above. Agreed that you can't really be indifferent to this car. Love it or don't. Could start out with affection and end up with "over it" but "stuck in the middle" with a car that has extreme characteristics is sort of odd.

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Originally Posted by stealth.pilot View Post
I am a man of positions, and my position is that the OP is either prone to poor decision making for buying a car which didn't have the characteristics he prefers, dead on the inside because he is so apathetic that he needs to blog about, or just used words poorly - in which case he should learn that the words we use are important. Especially the adjectives.
Could it be that he made a mistake? Could it be that he loves the car and just isn't crazy about one feature? Could it be that you, me and everyone else could misinterpret someone's words on a forum? C'mon pretty harsh. Stuff happens. Just because people don't see the same things as another, don't place importance on the same things, don't make decisions the same way or don't really place emphasis on perfect grammar doesn't make your perspective or my perspective any more "right" than theirs. It's what makes people who individuals. The only exception perhaps is that I am ALWAYS RIGHT-hahahahaha!
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      04-20-2014, 06:45 PM   #95
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Most of the current and probably future great performing cars (P1 650 MP4 458 612 Z06 Z28 GT3) are not AWD just putting that out there.
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      04-20-2014, 06:46 PM   #96
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@coldlist - hopefully this will lead people to say meh less. However I will continue to wage my war on the use of that word.
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      04-20-2014, 06:50 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Mbdurham17 View Post
Most of the current and probably future great performing cars (P1 650 MP4 458 612 Z06 Z28 GT3) are not AWD just putting that out there.
And don't forget the Lamborghini Aventador LP760-2 Oakley Design.

However the cars you mention are lighter with better aero.
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      04-20-2014, 06:51 PM   #98
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Most of the current and future great performing cars are not AWD (P1 650 MP4 Z06 Z28 GT3 458 599 F12)
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      04-20-2014, 06:55 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by stealth.pilot View Post
I hate the word meh and those who use it.

The word basically signifies indifference and apathy. And those who use it are usually joyless losers with no passion.

If you don't like something, get rid of it. But don't sit there apathetically and live life without joy.

What makes it even more annoying in this instance is that BMW has made in the M5 a car which makes the pulse race. How someone can drive an m5 and not smile, laugh, feel joy for every instant is beyond me! Quite frankly I would think you have to be dead on the inside to use the word meh in reference to the M5.

In fact you have to be dead on the inside to use the word meh at all. Why not get rid if the things you don't like and fill your life with joy!
Are you hammered?
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      04-20-2014, 06:56 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth.pilot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbdurham17 View Post
Most of the current and probably future great performing cars (P1 650 MP4 458 612 Z06 Z28 GT3) are not AWD just putting that out there.
And don't forget the Lamborghini Aventador LP760-2 Oakley Design.

However the cars you mention are lighter with better aero.
True but most still have more HP and are RWD and Aero and weight don't keep it from breaking loose and low speed
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      04-20-2014, 06:57 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWonlyZone
Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth.pilot View Post
I hate the word meh and those who use it.

The word basically signifies indifference and apathy. And those who use it are usually joyless losers with no passion.

If you don't like something, get rid of it. But don't sit there apathetically and live life without joy.

What makes it even more annoying in this instance is that BMW has made in the M5 a car which makes the pulse race. How someone can drive an m5 and not smile, laugh, feel joy for every instant is beyond me! Quite frankly I would think you have to be dead on the inside to use the word meh in reference to the M5.

In fact you have to be dead on the inside to use the word meh at all. Why not get rid if the things you don't like and fill your life with joy!
Are you hammered?
I am!!!!
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      04-20-2014, 06:58 PM   #102
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GNALUZU is right, a drivers mod is needed for your F10 M5. However, I still understand your complaint, but I say that you should have maybe realized that traction was going to be a problem with all that torque and RWD before you bought the car. Simple fact is that the E63 AMG-S, CLS63 AMG-S, and RS7 are all easier cars to drive, because of AWD. Kind of like what TomC said of the GTR. Owning a car that is too easy to drive or go fast in gets old for some people, they feel like they aren't having fun anymore. I remember seeing one video with Randy Pobst or was it Carlos Lago driving a GTR on a race track saying how it took such little skill to drive a GTR very fast on the track. That's not fun to a lot of people, but some for some they don't care.

A lot of people love the M5 because it's a pretty well balanced machine and can be very fast on the track or road, but you have to work hard for it. Truth is, I used to drive with my E60 M5 with DSC OFF all the time, even going to get some milk. In my 34,000 miles of ownership of the F10 M5 I've taken DSC OFF only a hand full of times. I believe it takes years to master the kind of performance that the F10 M5 has, because as one BMW M Performance Driving School Instructor once told me, "the F10 M5 is just so much more lethal."

I'm not saying that the Merc's or the RS7 are bad cars, cause really they are quite good for what they are, but the balance and dynamics just aren't there like they are with the BMW. So I say just drive your M5 more and have fun with it, but please keep DSC ON for your sake and everyone else's. I just don't want to see you or your car get hurt. MDM is ok though.
well said. 100% agreed. For two years I used to drive 2012,2013 650i coupe with DSC OFF with no problem at all. Now I rarely turn the DSC OFF when I'm driving my M6 and most of the time drive with MDM still feel skidding sometimes and I love this feeling specially at hard acceleration that fishtailing is fantastic. this feeling is just for RWD . The AWD car is good just for Drag race. that's it
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      04-20-2014, 07:01 PM   #103
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I am!!!!
At least that explains it! Jeez. Wait, that was for Mr. Stealth~

But glad to hear you are! Happy Easter.
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      04-20-2014, 07:07 PM   #104
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Hey, did I mention that my M5 has crap for traction? It's really, just, kinda, Meh.

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      04-20-2014, 07:09 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWonlyZone
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbdurham17 View Post
I am!!!!
At least that explains it! Jeez. Wait, that was for Mr. Stealth~

But glad to hear you are! Happy Easter.
Lol yep I know but figured is chime in!!
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      04-20-2014, 07:09 PM   #106
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Most of the current and probably future great performing cars (P1 650 MP4 458 612 Z06 Z28 GT3) are not AWD just putting that out there.
Clarity should prob be made that I personally am not saying that AWD is the sole answer. Thus the reason I made the GT3 reference to Rob earlier. IT would be a good possible solution for the M5 IF people wanted to have more control of the power delivery..
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      04-20-2014, 07:10 PM   #107
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@coldlist - hopefully this will lead people to say meh less. However I will continue to wage my war on the use of that word.
Hahahahahahaha!
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      04-20-2014, 07:12 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by ColdList
Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth.pilot View Post
@coldlist - hopefully this will lead people to say meh less. However I will continue to wage my war on the use of that word.
Hahahahahahaha!
I hate that word as well
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      04-20-2014, 07:12 PM   #109
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However the cars you mention are lighter with better aero.
Exactly.
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      04-20-2014, 07:13 PM   #110
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However the cars you mention are lighter with better aero.
Exactly.
But as I said lighter with better aero makes no difference at low speed as the OP was talking about.
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