Leather on the dashboard - durable?

[mwlmd]

Great info! I recently drove a 991 S with "std leather" and it was lower grade than BMW Dakota!!

Crazy in a $120k car.

So Merino is even nicer than the 7 series leather? Can't wait to see it.

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by chrisratz

I have never understood the real differences in all the different leathers. This is good info, thanks.

The black dakota leather in my 545i wore extremely well with very little maintenance, now I know why.

Stealthpilot which brand leather cleaner and conditioner do you use?

I use Swissvax leather cleaner and Zaino Leather in a bottle (conditioner). The Zaino though does leave a very slight sheen so many prefer Zymol or Swissvax Leather Milk. What I like about Zaino leather in a bottle is it contains genuine leather oils and smells like leather so it maintains that natural new leather scent.

I also have a product called Swissvax leather gloss corrector matte which I use every few years to restore the new matte finish to the steering wheel if it ever picks up a shine as a result of continuous use.

[emmfive]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

I use Swissvax leather cleaner and Zaino Leather in a bottle (conditioner). The Zaino though does leave a very slight sheen so many prefer Zymol or Swissvax Leather Milk. What I like about Zaino leather in a bottle is it contains genuine leather oils and smells like leather so it maintains that natural new leather scent.

I also have a product called Swissvax leather gloss corrector matte which I use every few years to restore the new matte finish to the steering wheel if it ever picks up a shine as a result of continuous use.

Good to hear, I'm a fan of zaino products, and i used their leather cleaner and conditioner on my m3, along with their polishing products. The leather in my landcruiser is shiny from wear, I'll try out that Swissvax gloss corrector.

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by chrisratz

Good to hear, I'm a fan of zaino products, and i used their leather cleaner and conditioner on my m3, along with their polishing products. The leather in my landcruiser is shiny from wear, I'll try out that Swissvax gloss corrector.

Make sure you get the right one. There are two gloss corrector versions - one which increases gloss and one which reduces gloss.

[vladberca]

A lot of great infos in this thread! Thanks stealth.pilot!

[krispykreme]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

BTW not maintaining leather will just lead your leather to crack within a year or two if you park it in the sun. Black leather is no different to white leather when it comes to dehydration, creasing and cracking. This is why you have to condition it the same as a light leather.

Its not the crack, dehydration, and creasing that bothered me with my E60 silverstone interior. It's keeping it clean. I am also getting very lazy.

With black interior, i don't see the dirt as much. Hence I can put off cleaning it then using the protectant to protect the leather.

To be honest, I would be happy to get leatherette.

I am just lazy.

[mainly]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

I don't know. I have a feeling these are just marketing terms. But here is what the leather grades are in order of quality

1) Merino (M Cars and Individual Cars) - proper natural grain natural leather. It is dyed but not coated.
2) Nappa (optional on 5, 6 and 7) - semi-aniline leather. Has a light clear coating. For protection. Also natural grain and soft. Grain is not as high quality as Merino. Nappa is also used on the dash and upper door arms of the M5.
3) Novillo (M3) semi aniline with a synthetic grain
4) Dakota (3, 5 and 7 sedans) lower grade leather (not top coat leather like the others) and coated with a synthetic paint polymer. Embossed with a synthetic grain.

The higher on this list you go, the leather gets softer and more natural to the touch. However it wears less well.

i can attest to the nappa not being as high quality as BMW merino. my cls has nappa on the seats, and its nowhere near as soft to the touch as the merino in the f10 m5.

not to mention the leather everywhere else is not even real. and feels rough to the touch on the cls.

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by mainly

i can attest to the nappa not being as high quality as BMW merino. my cls has nappa on the seats, and its nowhere near as soft to the touch as the merino in the f10 m5.

not to mention the leather everywhere else is not even real. and feels rough to the touch on the cls.

Since Nappa is a marketing term and not a controlled appellation you can't compare Nappa in a Mercedes to Nappa in a BMW. But that said Merino should be softer since it is a natural leather, whereas Nappa is a semi-aniline leather. This also means that Nappa is more durable.

[krispykreme]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

This isn't a low maintenance interior either. The Piano Black is a very high maintenance finish. Has to be cleaned very carefully or it will scratch. and if it doesn't get cleaners it shows dust very easily. Some people end up buying a range of swissvax polishes and optimum detailer spray to clean this stuff to keep it looking new.

If you want lower maintenance get aluminum.

BTW not maintaining leather will just lead your leather to crack within a year or two if you park it in the sun. Black leather is no different to white leather when it comes to dehydration, creasing and cracking. This is why you have to condition it the same as a light leather.

The problem with silverstone its discoloration.

I am okay with doing some work on the car. But silverstone just picks up too much dirt.

[mainly]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

Since Nappa is a marketing term and not a controlled appellation you can't compare Nappa in a Mercedes to Nappa in a BMW. But that said Merino should be softer since it is a natural leather, whereas Nappa is a semi-aniline leather. This also means that Nappa is more durable.

so you agree that bmw leather is nicer then...

what do you mean merino is a natural leather as opposed to semi-aniline?

[emmfive]

Originally Posted by mainly

so you agree that bmw leather is nicer then...

what do you mean merino is a natural leather as opposed to semi-aniline?

Check out stealthpilot's post on page 1 of this thread, I found it to be very informative and helped to decipher the leather terminology I have seen for years and not understood.

Also from wikipedia:

Aniline leather is a type of leather dyed exclusively with soluble dyes without covering the surface with a topcoat paint or insoluble pigments. The resulting product retains the hide's natural surface with the 'grain', i.e. visible pores, scars etc. of the complete original animal's skin structure.

and:

Semi-aniline leather is produced through a very similar process to full-aniline, but has a thin protective top coat added to protect it from wear and staining.

[mainly]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

Doesn't leather degrade, discolor, shrink, and crack in the sun? Even if I use a sunshade, it won't cover the entire area, so there's still a potential problem.

Is this option good pretty much only for people who garage their cars both at home and at work?

The answer is yes. However, it is not inevitable. There are many classic cars with perfect leather interiors. The key is that just like your own skin, you need to clean and moisturize it. A properly moisturized leather dash will remain looking new for years. I apply leather conditioner to the dash every 2-3 weeks or so. And the dash is always supple to the touch. It will easily last 10+ years as long as you condition the leather on a monthly basis.

what about the side bolsters on the seats, and backrests? is there a way to prevent cracking/creasing on these areas, just by moisturizing?

i find its starting to happen to my car even after only a month of ownership!!

i did apply conditioner once, after about 3 weeks.

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by mainly

what about the side bolsters on the seats, and backrests? is there a way to prevent cracking/creasing on these areas, just by moisturizing?

i find its starting to happen to my car even after only a month of ownership!!

i did apply conditioner once, after about 3 weeks.

Cracking yes. Cracking can be prevented by keeping the leather conditioned.

Creasing is a different story. Creasing can't be prevented. However on my cars it has only happened on the seat bottom and I think it is less likely to happen on the M5 since the leather has vertical stitching in a fluted pattern which should reduce stretching on the back and seat bottom.

BTW I am taking 2 products to take with me on my ED trip.
1) Leather Masters Foam Cleaner
2) Leather Masters Protective Cream Matte (Conditioner and Protectant with matte finish)

[///M1]

Originally Posted by VPM5

I've had my E39 for over 10 years now...full leather was standard back in 02...while my car only has 43k on it and has always been garaged, there is not a single bubble, crack, discoloration or any other imperfection in the leather...extremely durable.

One clarification: only the 2000 MY E39 M5 had real leather on the dash, 01+ and later had leather-like material on the dash, but not true leather. Has been discussed quite a lot over the yrs on the M5 board.

[zzzmmm]

Originally Posted by visualguy

Thanks.

The individual leather option would be the ideal choice for me, but I find $5K to be way excessive for it, so I'll just stick to the extended leather.

Too bad about those front seat backs. BMW really shouldn't be doing it this way in a $90K car. Same with keyless entry - it should come standard, and definitely not require a very expensive package. It's kind of ridiculous to have to pay $10,500 if you want leather on the seat backs (without leather on the dashboard) and keyless entry. I'll live without those things if it saves me that kind of money...

Haven't u learned yet, the M stands for MONEY!!!!!!!!

[Bimmernerd]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

I don't know. I have a feeling these are just marketing terms. But here is what the leather grades are in order of quality

1) Merino (M Cars and Individual Cars) - proper natural grain natural leather. It is dyed but not coated.
2) Nappa (optional on 5, 6 and 7) - semi-aniline leather. Has a light clear coating. For protection. Also natural grain and soft. Grain is not as high quality as Merino. Nappa is also used on the dash and upper door arms of the M5.
3) Novillo (M3) semi aniline with a synthetic grain
4) Dakota (3, 5 and 7 sedans) lower grade leather (not top coat leather like the others) and coated with a synthetic paint polymer. Embossed with a synthetic grain.

The higher on this list you go, the leather gets softer and more natural to the touch. However it wears less well.

This was the reason I chose Dakota leather. It does not look cheap and is quite easy to maintain. The price for the Merino leather is ridiculous...nappa is nice but not worth the extra 1500 USD IMO

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by Bimmernerd

This was the reason I chose Dakota leather. It does not look cheap and is quite easy to maintain. The price for the Merino leather is ridiculous...nappa is nice but not worth the extra 1500 USD IMO

I don't agree on the does not look cheap part. It depends on what you are used to, but Dakota seems really cheap to me. If Dakota was all BMW offered, I wouldn't buy a BMW.

[///M1]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

I don't know. I have a feeling these are just marketing terms. But here is what the leather grades are in order of quality

1) Merino (M Cars and Individual Cars) - proper natural grain natural leather. It is dyed but not coated.
2) Nappa (optional on 5, 6 and 7) - semi-aniline leather. Has a light clear coating. For protection. Also natural grain and soft. Grain is not as high quality as Merino. Nappa is also used on the dash and upper door arms of the M5.
3) Novillo (M3) semi aniline with a synthetic grain
4) Dakota (3, 5 and 7 sedans) lower grade leather (not top coat leather like the others) and coated with a synthetic paint polymer. Embossed with a synthetic grain.

The higher on this list you go, the leather gets softer and more natural to the touch. However it wears less well.

Don't forget there is also Boston leather, lowest of leather grades, generally on the 1-series.

[B-1Pilot]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

However there is a difference in coverage. When you buy the Individual Extended leather, you also get the seat backs and the lower part of the dashboard in leather too. See this chart for further details. Basically everything except upper doors, lower doors and dash is leather with Individual Extended leather. So your $5000 is buying you more leather and a nicer color. However the value buy is still the full Merino which has full leather coverage for only $3500 extra.

A quick question -- it appears from your chart that full merino is actually more coverage that individual extended (lower dash, lower doors) -- so unless you want an individual color, Full Merino option would be the best leather offered with the most coverage, correct? What exactly is "walk-nappa?"

As an aside, are you actually a military pilot? if so did you do any sort of USAA / pentagon autosales type purchase for your order?

[///M1]

Originally Posted by B-1 Pilot

A quick question -- it appears from your chart that full merino is actually more coverage that individual extended (lower dash, lower doors) -- so unless you want an individual color, Full Merino option would be the best leather offered with the most coverage, correct?

Yes, full merino is more leather than individual extended. Don't understand it, that you pay $5K for individual, 3.5K for full, and you get a lot less coverage. The biggest missing item to me is the dashboard. There was a gentleman in Canada that was able to order a leather dash on top of his individual choice (Cohiba IIRC), but the cost more than doubled!

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by ///M1

Yes, full merino is more leather than individual extended. Don't understand it, that you pay $5K for individual, 3.5K for full, and you get a lot less coverage. The biggest missing item to me is the dashboard. There was a gentleman in Canada that was able to order a leather dash on top of his individual choice (Cohiba IIRC), but the cost more than doubled!

I ordered Full Individual. It adds $1800 on top of Full Individual (I.e. $6800 vs $5000). I thought of my standard choice as full Silverstone. So to get Full Platinum cost me an extra $3300 over Full Silverstone.

[fyim]

Hello guys

In December i will order an M5 (Brilliant White Metallic/Cohiba Brown). I will get it fully loaded, but i have 2 questions if you can help:

1. Can i have the upper part of leather dash in Cohiba Brown colour? Or Black is the only option?
2. Can i have the stitching made in white?

Thank you very much